Wrecking our daughters future?

[Dolphin71]

Hi

Just looking to see if anyone else has had any similar experiences....

Our 14 year old daughter has had problems with bullying at school for the last couple of years, this has led to getting in with the wrong crowd and self harm, she spent hours looking these things up on the Internet, and sharing self harm pictures with this crowd seemed to be the thing that had to be done, some of the group suggested to my daughter they were taking prescription meds, although this has since been proven to be lies, my daughter of course believed them at the time.

Over the summer holidays we noticed a big improvement in her happiness and the self harm stopped. Since the holidays things have slid backwards.

We have been to see school and they say there isn't much they can do other than offer some self help groups involving the bullies and self Harmers.

When we told school how happy she seemed at the holidays, they said it was because she was just wanting to please us, as her parents we believe it was because the activities she enjoyed were the ones she chose, and was away from the bullies and the self Harmers.

When we said at school that we had considered home educating her, it was like we had declared war. We were told that we would destroy her future, not just educationally but socially too. They said we should invite the bullies or self Harmers to our house for tea and try and get to know them, the school believe they are good kids really.

Just a few days into half term, our daughter appears to becoming less quiet and signs of her happy self returning, enjoying going out ice skating amongst other things and of course shopping.

Our gut feeling says it's time to look after our daughter, and home educate away from all these problem children, but the doom and gloom picture painted by the school is making us hesitant.

Anyone else had a similar reaction from school, and made to feel like they would be bad parents for even considering removing their child from school?

Of course it's a total disaster if you remove your child from school. A total disaster for the school. Three reasons. First, word gets out. The school had a bullying and self harm culture so strong, and not tackled by the school, that dolphins mum took her out, say the teens. This puts ideas in the heads of the bullied, about how school is not compulsory. Dolphin's mum took her out, say the village gossips, and the parents of the bullied and self harming, devastated at the things happening to their children, start researching home ed on the internet. Third, and most importantly: For every child removed from the school in the middle of the academic year, the school loses a little tranche of funding. Several thousand pounds. Only, they've already done their annual budget and you removing your child is going to screw up that TA post they had just put into year 7. None of this is your problem or your responsibility. Get her out of that toxic environment right now. No child should be self harming.

That school is a disgrace. Move schools. Contact LA. Home Ed. Anything to save her sanity and save her future.

Hello, we took our 12 year old daughter out of school a year ago as she was having trouble with other girls in her year and we didn't feel supported by the school. Since then we have seen a huge improvement in her happiness and self-esteem and she is getting more confident. There is quite a large home-ed community near us and lots of activities organised and it has been lovely to spend 'quality time' with her.
We are now looking for her to return to school next September as we feel she will be ready, we just need to make sure we do our research and find the right one as I don't want to set her back again.
I think the reaction you got from your daughter's school is quite typical unfortunately, but if a child's not happy they will not be able to learn anything. I had not realised before how many people home ed and there is lots of information online for you to research before you make a definite decision.
Good luck.

We have lots of teens in our home ed community. Some, who've just come out of a traumatic school experience, mostly socialise with rather younger children for a bit, then they find their feet among the teens. And that's fine. No one cares how old your friends are when you home educate.

What does she think about whether she should go to school?

Fucking hell. The school (management) sound awful. I agree with sally that anything would be better for her than this - new school, home ed, whatever.

My DD (12) goes to Interhigh, a fully online secondary school, and is very happy there. Might be worth considering?

Take her out. Mental health is far, far more important. I took my DD out of school because of bullying, and the change in her has been astronomical. Same with some of her friends. One was taken out after attempting suicide due to bullying. He was 7 years old at the time.

Unfortunately it's been my experience - and again that of my friends - that some schools care more about getting bums on seats than the actual health and happiness of the children who are in those seats.

Also, re: education - you can't learn much when you're unhappy. The main 'lesson' she is currently getting at school is that she's not good enough, that she is unlikeable, and that she deserves to hurt herself (I say this as a former self harmer by the way - sorry to be so blunt). That is what is sticking in her mind, far more than any maths formula or French verbs.

Don't worry about the education side for now. She needs to heal. If she takes GCSEs a little late or whatever, no big deal at all. She will find her passions. Take her out, get some relevant textbooks/workbooks to work through if you want, and just let her heal. By all means look into other schools but get her out first. When I was homeschooled for a bit myself, I got my parents to give me essay questions and ideas for research etc. But if your DD has been put off everything about school then it may be better to 'deschool' completely, ie have a total break from anything that looks like learning. In your DD's case that could be several months, and again, that's ok.

Another thing, please make sure she is safe on social media. I just say this as I read the other day a post from a mother whose DD attempted suicide, after the bullies she had left behind still manage to get to her, via FB or similar. I am sorry to write that as I know it's scary but it's just a reminder that being physically away from nasty people isn't always enough, anymore :(

As for the 'you are wrecking her social life' aspect, well that's complete bollocks TBH, if you could see the mayhem outside Home Ed gym club here, it's just amazing. Happy, relaxed kids from toddlers to teens, all mixing, laughing, hugging, making plans and not giving a damn how old they all were, it's just beautiful. Last time I was there I had a little cry because it just hit me how much better things are for my DCs now.

A big thankyou to everyone for all the wonderful replies, lots to digest, but great to hear so many thinking the same things we have.

To answer Zinkies question, we have asked her about going to school, and just yesterday she said that she had to go and felt the pressure to do well in her GCSE's over the next 2 years was huge, she wasn't looking forward to upcoming tests to see if she was 'on target' but said they had to be done.

We explained that there was no rush to complete the GCSE's (She has set her mind on working with animals and school have previously had her research a career path to becoming a vet)

She said to us if she changed schools or was taught some at home that she would still have the pressure to pass just 1 or 2 GCSEs, and then still have the burden of passing more in the future, then she said she would be at college later than others who had done better, and then would feel pressure to catch up.

We said about having a couple of weeks off (although I suspect we would struggle to get the GP to agree), but she said by doing that we would make it that she had 2 weeks of work to catch up on and make it all worse.

She also said that if we decided to take her out of the school completely that she would have to make some new friends at new activities and that she would rather just stick with those she has now and will just have to cope with the issues and the pressure of the school work.

Thanks also to ProfessorBranestawn for commenting on the self harming, it helps us understand the possible reasons for this.

With regards to social media, she now has very little access to any of them, we found out earlier in the year just how big an underground world of issues social media brings up, not just facebook but messaging apps, pinterest, wattpad, etc

Our gut feeling, having seen how happy she has been the last few days, is to write to the school on Monday and deregister her. However, with her strong feelings about the pressure of school work etc and how she just has to get on with it, we are very fearful of a big backlash against us from our daughter of how we as parents have just made her life 100 times worse :(

I've got no advice to add but I am at the school's suggestion that you should invite the bullies around to your home!? The one place your daughter feels is her own and where she feels safe, being infiltrated by the people who bring her down. If my parents did that to me it would erode any confidence I had that at least my parents are on my side.
I wish you and your daughter all the best.

You need to take your DD out of that school. You know that.

It does sound like she's keen not to be left behind with GCSEs though, so I think you need to look at enabling her to continue studying the subjects she is now, and sitting the exams.

Oh bless her :( sorry she is feeling such pressure. Is it quite a pushy school? (I went to a grammar school - the pastoral care really suffered in comparison to academics)

Do you think the friends she has would be happy to see her outside school? This was an important factor for my DD, who despite being mercilessly bullied did have some friends she didn't want to lose by leaving.

It's so hard when she is obviously determined to stay in school despite what it's doing to her :(

I agree about looking into places she could immediately transfer to, in order to do her GCSEs at the same time as her peers.

I would perhaps start looking into the local home ed community - it doesn't commit you to anything. Taking some time off is a good idea and if her mental health is so bad that she is self harming, then the GP really should agree to signing her off for a couple of weeks and the school should understand it too. I'm wondering if you could arrange with the school to send all her work home for the time she is off, so she wouldn't have to catch up when she returned? She could work through it in school hours while she's off, and then perhaps you could invite her friends round in the evenings.

Another possibility to look into - are there any activities or youth clubs around that won't have the bullies in them? A random example - St John Ambulance have a teen group which from my experience is a very positive thing. Or some volunteer work, maybe an animal shelter?

I'm surprised the school painted such a doom and gloom picture. I have always been very positive when parents have wanted to home educate. If they feel their child is no longer the right 'fit' for the school then absolutely they should remove them. I would explain that it is hard to teach to the level required for GCSE and beyond, but purely to give them that information, not to put them off at all. Go for it- take her out - her mental health is more important.

It sounds like she's in an all girls school. Emotions can be very intense and you're right that social media exacerbates it. Is it an intense and unhelpful group of kind of clingers-on rather than people bullying her? Or is she being repeatedly singled out for abuse? It's not quite clear.

It looks like the pressure your daughter is now under will only get worse over the next two years, and she needs to change schools or start home education. If it's to be a different school then that should be done ASAP because it is so hard to change GCSE courses. If home ed, there is more flexibility because there isn't such a rigid timetable: even if she's determined to acquire a large number of good exam passes in two years' time, it won't be too late to start working towards that a few months from now.

However, I think you are wise to be wary of doing anything against your daughter's wishes. It is her life, after all, and the aim is to empower her. You probably DO know best about what's right for her, but you don't want her to feel that she has no control over her life. Personally, I would only override her wish to stay at her current school if either 1) it could be a temporary arrangement for a term or two and then she could have the choice of returning - which probably isn't feasible in Y10 or 2) her mental health was in such a bad state that the risk of letting her stay where she is cannot be tolerated.

So I suggest that you don't remove her from her current school against her will, unless things get even worse. But do work hard to persuade her that there are better choices she could make. Take her to see some other schools. Talk to some home educating families who have teens, and see if you can get your dd together with them. Find out exactly what it is like to do exams while being HE so you can explain the process to her.

It isn't clear to me whether your dd has her heart set on being a vet. In this case she will be under a lot of academic pressure wherever she is. But the academic side will not necessarily be harder elsewhere than in her current school, and at least other life pressures such as bullying can be eliminated in a different setting. Or is it just the school which heard "I want to work with animals" and decided she should aim to be a vet? There are many other jobs which involve working with animals and don't require such good academic qualifications; maybe she should explore those. If the whole scenario of working incredibly hard to get the necessary results to become a vet is so daunting already, maybe it isn't the best path for her. It isn't going to get any easier in the years to come. I'd really worry about her choosing such a future if she is already feeling the strain at such an early point.

I would not hesitate to take either of my dd's out of school for the sake of their mental health. For what your dd's going through I'dhave her out of there already. Have you floated the idea with your dd?

I will start with an apology, sorry - I am going to deviate slightly from your current concerns to say for the love of God, don't encourage her to become a vet (I do register that you say the school has done this, not you, but just in case).

As one myself, I cannot recommend anyone going into a career which has the highest suicide rate of any profession. It is certainly not a suitable career for anyone with mental health issues or who self harms, although should she go down that career path, she will find herself in good company - there are hundreds of us here, trying to get from day to day.

The academic pressure Saracen mentions is the tip of the iceberg. When she has put her heart and soul into helping someone, to have them complain about her because things have not gone to plan, she will experience a level of stress and betrayal that far exceeds that. And it will happen, even if she is an excellent vet.

Since beginning my career I have had someone who taught me kill themselves, been woken in the night because a colleague was standing on a railway bridge, and had another sectioned under the mental health act. In a recent graduation group from one university, two of the hundred odd graduates had committed suicide before the first year in practice was out. I could name a half dozen people on anti-depressants - that's the ones I know about. A practice a friend worked at had two suicides in one year.

Under current conditions she will run up in excess of £9000 a year of debt, for a 5 year course, and it will trap her in a career she is likely to hate. A recent professional survey had less than half of vets happy with their chosen career.

In fairness, the school are unlikely to have known all this, but they didn't have her best interests at heart when they suggested it. It's a prestigious career at a good university and will look great for them. It won't be great for your daughter. I do agree she has to make her own mistakes and you shouldn't tell her she can't do it if it's something she has her heart set on but it's worth having a full and open discussion about it. If I'd been forced to avoid it I know I would have spent the rest of my life thinking everything would be better if I'd gone ahead.

I can't agree with Saracen enough about reducing the pressure. If I had my time again I'm not sure what I would do, but if she would like to work with animals there are other options. I think perhaps I would set up my own business. Doggy daycare may sound like a non-career, but it can be great fun and can pay extremely well - £17 a day per dog is average, if you can cope with and attract 10-11 dogs you have a vets wage right there, without as much debt. A grooming parlour can pay. I know one lady who runs a small animal re-homing charity - it's run as a business, it helps the animals they re-home and also pays her enough of a wage to live on. She could work for one of the larger animal charities in their office - some of those jobs are pretty well paid (compared to other work with animals). There are definitely options. I think the level of stress is high even for the top sector of vets. When the black mist isn't down I know I am competent, but I will only ever be an average vet - I could have been an exceptional zoo keeper. I may have been a little poorer but I think I would have been happier.

Sorry for such a long post on what is a small part of the dilemma you face, and very much in the future. I'm sure it seems like I'm being over dramatic. Some vets are probably crazy enough to enjoy what they do and think I'm being over dramatic. But it is a genuine problem in our profession and part of the reason it exists is because we are used to putting on our smiling 'How's Fluffy today?' faces and don't spend enough time telling the next generation how it really is so they can make an informed decision.

Sorry that really is far too long, the words 'research becoming a vet' made my blood run cold though :( I do hope you both find a solution for her and she is happier soon. Teenage years can be so stressful and it's hard to see beyond that when you are that age.

for you Vets. That's sobering and interesting information for me. My DD has said that she'd like to be a vet, and I had my reservations about her aiming for that for a bunch of reasons. You have confirmed my concerns. I hope you find a way of working that makes you happier.

Have you seen studio schools? Some HEers I've known have actually joined those at 14 in order to have access to GCSEs etc.

studioschoolstrust.org

Also have a look at the 14+ offer at your local FE colleges. Many now offer vocationally slanted qualification routes (generally not as FT as school).

Alternatively, one of my DC did a number of IGCSEs by correspondence with The Little Arthur School (based on the Scilly Isles). That worked well for him. He then joined a good sixth form (he needed good A-levels for his intended career).

Your DD sounds very concerned about access to qualifications, researching all the possible avenues and showing her what they are might help illuminate the path ahead.

Sorry to hear that Vets

OP how do you and your DD feel about BTECs as an alternative route into an animal care career?

vetsaresad You don't give much info about what's actually wrong with the job specifically. Teachers experience negative feedback too - most professions do and it's gutting. Suicides stand out but you don't have stats on how many of your class are feeling fairly chipper. Being on anti-deps is a sign of nothing in this day and age - you should check out a classroom.

I don't know about being a vet and you may well be right. However I do think that some vets enjoy their job and aren't crazy - in fact I know this to be the case. A bit less 'it's a nightmare, she'll hate it,' and a bit more 'here are the difficulties I've experienced' would be helpful.

OP you sound in an impossible position. It's a late stage to be thinking about homeschooling especially if a long line of A stars is needed. I don't necessarily think it will be the right decision for your DD. It might depend on what private help you can afford, how much she needs to and will see other friends, and how she really feels about staying on at school. You don't want to do something that will jeopardise her future career and be resented in the future.

staffroom not classroom

Another mum here with similar problems, educated from home at Interhigh now, the change is amazing and her assertive confidence is at an all time high

Take her out, do something different for her and don't look back! In 6 months she will thank you

How is it all going OP?