threats of prosecution absences

[raysofsunshine12]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this but looking for some advice and HE is part of it but please move if wrong place. Sorry for the long winded post.

currently dd is in school, she has had alot of time off since September due to illness (flu symptoms,possible norovirus / rotavirus, d+v, ear infection )
Since we all had the flu symptoms we seem to be catching every bug that goes around and we drop like flies (me dh and 4 dc)
She has been sent to school when she has a cough or sniffles etc but with d + v she has been kept off time + 48hrs after last episode as school policy says (School nurse also confirmed this in meeting much to ewo dislike of confirmation)
all these illneses have lead to us being run down and also lack of sleep also hasnt helped matters and she has had alot of lates due to us not waking up early enough Eg half hour after dd is meant to be in school. When havent been ill she is early for a couple of weeks then back to square 1.
attendance officer at school explained concerns and that ewo asking questions so set up meeting with ewo and explained our situation and that we are not just lazy parents we do feel her education is important , dislike her being late and what we have done / trying to do to improve situation.
Ewo wants medical evidence and copy of prescription for all future absences otherwise will be marked unauthorised Gave example of most recent absence at that time and said that as dd wasnt seen by gp until 4th day of illness the first 3 wont be authorised i explained treat at home before see gp if no improvement / gets worse we take her to gp who either says its childhood illness and builds her immune system for when adult or prescribes antibiotics when needed.said will arrange meeting with school nurse.

Had meeting at home with ewo and school nurse (turned up early at time i had stated was inconvienient) Following meeting had letter on first day of term (dd was on time) from ewo saying they increasingly concerned (no explanation why as it had been holidays) legal threats and quotes of education act.

End of this term school hand delivered letter to us whilst we were in school easter assembly from headteacher about dd attendance / lates went to see head about letter and said we have been upfront willing to cooperate and trying our best, head said its not good enough that cannot authorise absences as evidence not sufficient (evidence we were told to provide by ewo we provided) said will ask ewo why it not sufficient as head doesnt know and no support / understanding, quoted education act, our legal responsibility for dd to be in school and that we need more pressure on us?.

Im torn at what to do as dd likes school, has friends there, she loves learning also does alot of learning at home has gone up 2 reading levels since December progressing in maths Etc.

My views on education are that it is important but not restricted to a school environment but i wanted to give dd opportunity to experience school and things were going well until winter and has snowballed from there.

i feel at a loss with where to go forward from here as she has 3 younger siblings 1 who starts school in September.
Prosecution wont help anything as we are genuinely trying our best so the cycle will carry on.

will HE work with 3 younger dc? Any other advice on this will be much appreciated as dont know where to ask/vent in RL

You need to speak to the EWOs to find out what they were referring to in their letter where they claimed there had been no improvement. If the head cannot give answers go straight to the EWOs. Follow up every conversation with an email to confirm what was said so that you have a paper trail. You need clarification.

With regards to the lateness, unless you or your partner have a medical condition which means you can't hear the alarm or have a sleep condition, you need to be up and out at the right time. One of you staying up all night to ensure the other gets up is bizarre and is probably exacerbating underlying issues if there are any. Being slightly late once in a blue moon is not great but won't raise any alarms. Being significantly late, repeatedly, isn't on.

I'm not sure how they would proceed with fines if you home schooled now since technically you would be under investigation for the time your dd should have been in school.

Box it's 72% since September. EWOs will often be asked investigate if it falls below 90% or there abouts.

Wow, your poor dd has been ill a lot! From what you've said, 12% of the time she is definitely too ill to go to school, and on top of that she's often rather ill but going in anyway because it isn't too severe.

Setting aside for the moment the question of prosecution for lateness and nonattendance, I'm beginning to wonder whether exposure to all of those bugs at school is becoming a major problem for your dd's health. It sounds like she never does get a chance to fully recover. Some kids are more susceptible than others to catching whatever is going around. School is a difficult place for such children.

Not to put too fine a point on it, schools and nurseries are an absolute breeding ground for disease. Dozens of kids spend hours every day in a small area. (To reduce the spread of disease in the military, it's recommended that bunks be placed so people's heads can be at least 1.7 metres apart. I've never seen a classroom in which children can sit 1.7 metres apart!) Young children are very tactile and are constantly touching their faces and everything around them. Add to that the pressure parents are under to send ill children to school - not to mention the clear priority to deliver healthy children to school despite parents' or siblings' illnesses, so the "healthy" child is quite possibly incubating the illness already without showing symptoms yet - and it's just bad news.

I don't think anyone denies that school and nursery attendance dramatically increases the spread of illnesses, though some people like to comfort themselves with the unproven notion that this is somehow good for kids because they "have to catch these bugs sooner or later" so it's as well to get it over and done with and "strengthen their immune systems" by exposing them to illness.

Whatever the other issues may be, perhaps it would be best for your dd to have a break from school for a year or two in order to properly recover.

I sympathize with you RAY as we too are feeling pressured but it hasn't gone as far as ewo. Our ds began secondary and immediately had bouts of flu/stomach pains which we believe was a relapse of a disease he'd gotten last summer. At first we sent him in on the days he looked strong so his attendence pattern was 2days in 3 days off, 1 day in 2 days off etc for a month. Very soon we were in the sights of the schools attendence officer. When we took ds to doctor he happened to be having a strong day and merely appeared off colour so the doctor began hassling us to send him in too. (It was imposssible to get doctors appointments on his ill days as all emergency appts kept being filled.) Doc refused to retest for the disease as it "never" returns, but I hassled and they tested and low and behold the same disease showed up. He got treated and 3 days later was fit.

Two months later the same thing happened but this time I just kept him off even on his strong days which seemed far fewer. Why? because I got less pressure from the school than if I sent him in for a day here and there. The doc refused to test for the disease again but eventually gave antibiotics (which is the treatment for the disease coincidentally) and magically he was well 3 days later again.
On his third bout he was much worse and bed ridden for 3 weeks I insisted he be refered to a specialist. Doc did it but insisted it could not be the same disease and kept pointing out it was typical for people starting secondary to have a few issues- so she still didn't believe me! By this time we had about six very military letters from the school stating concerns and policies. School is big and we seem to speak to a different nurse each time that one phones up to "check" if there is anything they can do to improve attendence. Each nurse is equally unbelieving.

All this pressure even when we have evidence of a disease. We have the further proof that when he's treated he gets better and he goes back to school. (He is an A* student, gifted in Maths and loves school life)

Well RAY, keep records, keep a diary, record conversations. But also you MUST get up on time. What are your typical bedtimes?

OP, can we ask what time you go to sleep, and what time you need to get up? And what time are you typically waking up on the mornings when you're late? How late are you?

Are you having to get up a lot with your younger children in the night? How is this shared between you and your partner? And what sort of alarm clock are you using in the morning? How many? And where do you put them?

I've gone through phases in my life when I've struggled to wake with an alarm. I usually find that it helps to use several different alarms and to put them far enough away from the bed so that you have to get out of bed to put them off.

Your dd has certainly been sick more than the average child, but you can't necessarily prevent this. However, if you continue to be late, it will appear to the school and the EWO that you don't really care, so you need to try to fix this. Is there anyone who could give you a wake up call in the mornings, and just keep ringing until you wake up?

Yes dd has been poorly alot.we all have and it seems to always start with dd who is in school or dc2 who is in nursery then as they are getting better me dp and other dcs are struck with it.if its sicky bug then it goes between us like wildfire despite stricter hygiene during illnesses.

dd has been to nursery part time since she was 2,at different nurseries so 4 years in a childcare / education setting. she has had the usual cold sick bug and fever but never bug after bug like this none of us and dp never usually catches the bugs but has been, its fustrating. she has always been slim but with this cycle of ilnesses its a battle to get extra calories in to avoid losing so much weight.
my worry is how long this has already been going on although there are breaks between the illnesses when is enough enough, the long term effects of the cycle with no full recovery time in the breaks between.

In going to make appointment with gp and discuss issues,take a timeline of ilnesses,explain school situation and ask for tests if required.

Alarm clocks - classic metal type with bell on top, electric digital type with beep function and radio on function, ipod dock alarm,numerous phone alarms.

Ideally need to be awake at 7am but 7.30 would be ok. have been waking at 9.15am alot but anywhere between 8.30 - 9.30. It typically takes 40mins to be ready and to the school If dd has breakfast at home 30 mins if dd has breakfast at school.

Dcs are usually in bed for 8pm sometimes bedtime goes smoothly other times it doesnt and could be past 11pm that they are asleep.
dc3 will sometimes wake in night or take a long time to get to sleep despite efforts to entertain and excersise in day to wear batteries out. Dc4 will usually wake in night for feed.
11pm is typical time i go to bed but dont get to sleep at that time don't drink coffee or any stimulants.
We have tried taking in turns weekly, daily where possible none is consistent though.which is what is needed.

Hi RAY
A good amount of sleep is 9 hours but some people (teens) need 12. You are getting very little sleep each night if you go to bed at 11 and get woken for feeds (prob = 5 or 6 hours broken sleep). Your body is telling you this by wanting to sleep in and your sub conscious is also telling you this by making you ignore those alarms. For the mean time you need to listen to what you are telling yourself. For a few months you need to go to bed early.

This could feel like you are sacrificing your "me" time. This could feel like being a child again being told what to do? But if the alarms are not working then you do need more sleep. For the next month go to bed at 9pm. You should quickly feel as if you have more energy both physically and mentally. To help you get to sleep try Lavender room spray or other herbal aids to sleeping. Create yourself a little sleep routine of 10 minutes of set activities, getting ready for bed in a set order and that will help your body realize that it is now sleep time. Also if you day allows, sneak a little nap in the afternoon.

I hate hearing an alarm and having to get up by it's command. So I set the alarm early and use the snooze button. I guess lots of people do since most alarms have a snooze button. Are you pressing snooze and ignoring the time? Are you just turning the alarms off immediately? Are the alarms too far away to reach for snooze?

Other things which disrupt sleep patterns (aside from babies) include energy drinks, computer usage before bedtime, and many more, so have a look on the net and see if anything you are doing could be influencing your sleep/tiredness.

Finally, go to the GP and discuss your sleepiness with them.

It may be temporary inconvenience in your life but do make changes to your lifestyle and get to bed early.

Two things.

I'm thinking around the mums I know with three or more children, one of them under a year, and they are sleep deprived and constitutionally incapable of getting anywhere on time. So we meet at their house and if they are all still in their pjs, I put the kettle on and offer to hold the baby while the mum zips through the shower. But of course it doesn't matter that they are late, because they home ed.

If anyone had looked at me when I last had a new born, they'd have said I also was terrible at time keeping, but it gets easier as the children get older. And when I couldn't manage good timekeeping, we didn't give ourselves firm commitments like having to be at school at a particular time.

Second thing: Action plans and lists and multiple alarm clocks and meetings with professionals might be worth your while, but do bear in mind that there may come a moment when it is more efficient and beneficial to put all that energy directly into caring for your family, including educating any school aged children, rather than trying to reshape your family in someone else's image.

You and your children Definately need to get to sleep earlier and wake up earlier! They aren't getting enough quality sleep. 7pm bedtime for them 9:00pm for you. Wake up at 6:30am. 40 minutes to get 4 children ready is inadequate. Unless you leave the other 3 with your DP. Doesn't he work or have a job which involves getting up? It just sounds like you all are used to going to bed late and ten getting up late and that might have been great before you had 4 children but now you have four children you need to sort yourselves out. sleep is really important to the immune system.

But do look at it objectively - if you struggle to cope with all the children at once, then it may be that school is really useful childcare for you, and therefore you should put your energies into getting your child there on time.

Oh, and don't forget that the clocks changing may be what precipitated this crisis. I haven't properly recovered from it yet to be honest!

Most people I know can get themselves and their kids up and be on time whether they have one or four children. I have to drop mine off at childcare at 7:30-8:00sm as a commute an hour to work. They get themselves up and dressed with minimal help and we are in that car to the minute each day. This is why OP isn't getting much sympathy from the school. Sickness one thing but lateness is inexcusable.

It's quite telling that none of you are ill right now and yet you are anticipating issues. Easter has been a great opportunity to rest and prepare. It sounds like you have a lot on but your attitude and motivation is a bug part of it.

The dcs bedtimes are 7.15 for dc2 and 7.30 dc3( seperate rooms) and 8pm for dd (same room as dc3) this gives time for getting home from school, out of uniforms,after school snack,homework,usually 4pm, play time,5pm,dd and dc2 have 15min one to one time,530pm,dinner,6.15,baths / showers,snack,teeth,story bed.

Then tidy up things that havent already been done,if dcs are asleep have shower of they are awake shower will distract them from getting to sleep.if something needs doing i have to do it before bed else i cant wind down.no stimulants at bedtime unless dc3 wakes teething grumpy or is not yet asleep as dc3 is the live wire.

I wake dp as dd is getting ready so he can watch dcs during school run or other way around. No morning work but other commitments which means dps time is split between prioritising, dcs, other commitments(has some help with this but limited amount), home diy Etc.

I was thinking of part time study for myself in september but this will be unlikely if the past few months are anything to go by it wouldnt be realistic.

ommmward

I think this is how im feeling, i put everything into dcs making sure there needs are met in all other areas.dp the same but also has to split his time.
i have never been great at timekeeping,but this has improved in some ways since having dcs but not in other ways.learnt to become more efficient with time as theres lots of things that come with having 1 dc never mind 4,dc4 hasnt changed alot of the dynamics as still young so the main change is the night feeds but dc3 wakes in night.

Everything else is manageable

RAY several people have suggested earlier bedtimes. Is this something you will consider? I don't think you have replied to any of these suggestions yet?

Timekeeping is very important. If you are late and keep someone waiting it might not matter amongst friends as they forgive each other easily. However what you are saying by your actions of being late is that your time is more precious than other peoples. Or that your problems and issues are much more important than theirs. That is why many people consider it rude. As regards schooling, it really does impact on your child's learning and also socially she'll become affected too as her friends begin to class her as the late child; she could even be bullied for it.

I thought i had replied to them i must have missed them whilst replying
the dcs bedtimes atm have shown the minimal disruptions so far as it is staggered,there are still disruptions but less than before we did this.
the only way could shave some time off dcs routine is 30min play time instead of 1 hour and using the other 30mins to get done anything that would niggle me at my bedtime if not done

also missed MrsCs
I am anticipating it as after holidays it goes ok for the first week or so (unless ill at start of term obv)and then another illness and then ok back to school and on time then something else and round in circles it goes. I expect some ilnesses/bugs but it is getting very draining one after the other. (we dont only have illnesses during term time/weekdays)
Im trying to be prepared for the cycle that seems to be happening juding from past months And to stop the lateness ( although im not great at time keeping ive managed to get dcs where they need to be / other things on time up until now and so has dp).

i understand the effects of dd being late, i dont blame the school being concerned about the lates.if they prosecute on that basis so be it but absences where there has been genuine illness that prevents from attending school which hasnt been authorised when evidence has been provided is what i am not happy about.

Yes have been trying to catch up on rest, get to bed earlier than usual. There is motivation else i would not of started this thread and would not have made any change/effort.