Three questions from a budding home ed family

[EggyBreadAndBeans]

I'm having one of my periodical bursts of intense enthusiasm for home ed, hence all the questions at the moment! Grateful for others' perspectives ...

(1) Ds (2 years, 4 months) wants to go to school. He cried when we dropped a friend's son at pre-school and he wasn't allowed to stay, and talks a lot about how he'll go to school when he's a bigger boy. If we get to age 4 and I know I believe in home ed, do I explain the school and home ed options to ds and let him decide? Freedom of choice and all ...

(2) Ds is registered to begin pre-school as he approaches 3, for a few mornings a week. (We live in a lovely, friendly village with a "good" pre-school and school - more on this in a bit.) I'm not 100% sure about it but, given ds's enthusiasm for it and it's play-orientated nature, am going to give it a try. What's the home ed perspective on pre-school/nursery?

(3) We moved to the village we live in because it's where dp grew up, and he loved it. Loved the school, the community feel, the friendships. If we choose the home ed route, I can see our decision setting us apart from other parents, friends and families in the village, with the church/pre-school/school at its heart. I can even see some people feeling insulted by our decision. Have other home ed families come across this? How have you handled it and managed to still feel part of the community?

There are my questions for this evening.

Thanks all. Night night. EBAB

I am wondering about q 1 as well myself (to the extent of planning to write a children's picture book for home ed children explaining "some children go to school. I learn at home" type of thing!)

A friend said her child was quite sad about this and it took a while for him to get over the idea of wanting to go to school I think some families do let children go when they ask - school does not always turn out how they expect. I would start mentioning the possibility NOW, btw, and meeting other HE families so you can say things like "Well, Tom doesn't go to school, does he - some children learn at home with their families." Having HE friends will soften the blow when other friends go to school, as well.

No 2 I have similar mixed feelings about - we have found a fab play based nursery for ds and are happy for him to go there, but other HE-ers have said "Why are you sending him to nursery?" The answer for me is that I have nothing against him going to play / learn somewhere where I agree with the approach they are taking, and would send him to school if there was a school I liked around here / in existence anywhere. At this age I can find a place I think is fun for him, a couple of times a week, so I am going to take advantage of it.

Of course this adds to the problem when they get to school age, though....they have to say goodbye to everyone at nursery and yet have nothing tangible to take its place...

Sorry can't help with part 3 but can see your concerns. Good luck!

hey eggy

Screw the HE perspective, what is your perspective? I am with franny, the reason I am HEing (which i bloody am already- in wales school starts at 3!) is more becuase I can't find a school I like locally, than anything else. Why are you HEing and how does that tie in with sending him to nursery?

My ds in not in nursery because a. I can't find one that I approve of and b. because he has stated that he does not want to go, having tried out a couple of sessions at a group he was initially happy with.

Two reasons why I would have quite like ds to be in nursery. first-its perhaps a way of including him in the community. second, it would have given me time with dd.

Dunno about 3, sorry, we have consciously stayed in a town for partly this reason, but...when I get questions about when he is going to school and where...first, I remember that people are often just making conversation. local schools are what parents tend to talk about. So its an easy way of chatting to people. My neighbour was recently insistently asking me where when why etc re ds's schooling, but, although I got narked at the time, I think actually she was making conversation and, me being circumspect, did not realise why I was being so reticient about school-this is what parents talk about!

second-I don't actually say I am HEing. I say I am not sending him to school yet as he is not really ready for it (ds-quite...ahem boistrous). And then I go on to waffle about brainwaves and childhood obesity and stuff until they give me up for Mrs Doyle.

ps franny pls write book

i am also often inspired to write such books but never get round it it.

(1)I think giving him the choice is an admirable one, but unless he has experienced what HE involves or made friends with some HE children I am not sure he would be able to make that kind of decision in a balanced way iyswim. Are there any HE groups in your area you can take him to so he can see & make friends with HE children? That way he will have an image of HE & all that it involves in his head to compare it to school, when the decision needs to be made.

(2)I am not sure there is a Home ed perspective on anything - everything we do with our children, whether we HE or school ed is personal to us & the children. Some HE families do send their children to pre-schools & some dont. I personally wont be sending DS as I know he is happy at home & I can offer everything they do activity & play wise, with more personal interaction to boot! You say you are not sure about it - what reservations do you have?

(3)Your situation is exactly like ours - we have also moved back to the village where DH grew up & its got a similar feel - very community based. But our decision to HE DS is a personal one & I dont see it as anyones business than ours. Yes we will be set apart from some of the other children, but there is a thriving HE community in the area (although not necessarily the village) and I am looking forward to being a part of that community as well. The church is a big part of the community here, but we are not religious at all but dont feel any less involved with the community as a result. I am sure that is the case in your village...Everyone will have their own thing that they do that is different - some will choose to send their children to a private school outside the village, some will attend a different church or not attend one at all - If its as community-based as our village here - then there will be lots of ways you can still be "involved" like being involved in various projects or clubs.

Ah, Filly, I will definitely get around to it

now let me just check my last 40 threads I posted on one more time...

Thanks, all.

As for (1), yes Franny, pls write the book. And it looks like it's clearly time we probed into the HE community locally. I'm aware of a teacher of mine from school in the area, who home eds her three kids. I was fond of her, and I have her phone number - so off we go!

And as for (2), because HE is something we began considering maybe only a year ago, we've been going with the flow education-wise - which includes reserving a place at pre-school for ds. My reasons for are it's a small and fairly loving, play-orientated place (a surrogate granny of ds's works there), held in a familiar building a two-minute walk away, and there are kids there he already knows and who will go on to the local school (if that's the route he/we choose). My reservations are the separation anxiety - ds is very strongly attached at the moment, and separations from me (maybe two a week), even when he stays with Dad/grandparents, are pretty traumatic; he's a different kid when I stay. I don't want to push him into dealing with this before he's ready - so will see how he is when he starts in six months. And I suppose he won't get much one-to-one. And like your ds, Filly, he can be sooo boisterous! I realised today, with two same-age playmates over, that nearly all ds's most challenging behaviour presents around his peers; he plays contentedly and calmly with older kids/adults. So I'm wondering about the age-related rivalry of pre-school/school ... anyway, there's me thinking out loud. It's for us to decide. Just wondered if there was anything of a HE "philosophy" on it, but it's clearly a freestyle thing.

As an aside, Franny, would you send your ds to a school like Summerhill (Suffolk) or Sands (Devon) if there were one nearby? Something dp and I increasingly discuss is setting up a small, alternative school local to us. Hmm ...

And as for (3), terramum, I liked your perspective on that. The emphasis among our peers in the village is the school/pre-school - but we manage to keep ourselves out of the church scene with no trouble, and there's the shop to volunteer in, and even the am dram to join ... 'Tis looking OK after all.

Thanks again, all. EBAB

snap on the challenging behaviour around peers/angel child otherwise thing

ok, this is a big deal for me. I tend to assume that kids only really "play up" if they are unhappy in some way. I think thats true of mine, anyway. So the fact that ds plays (tantrums etc-not "naughtiness", whatever that is-its more that its the one time he seems very uncertain and out of control) up when with other kids is an indication to me that he is not ready to cope in a situation with lots of other kids w/o me. Plus also that he doesn't want to.

Eggybreadandbeans (why don't interesting posters ever have short names?) what I'd like to know (if you don't mind saying a bit more) is why you are thinking about home ed when you are in what sounds like an iydllic situation school-wise?

aaargh, curlew-am not trying to have a go, not even slightly, I think your posts are great but don't think eggys looking for advice on whether to HE, just a sounding board on the practicalities. Correct me if I'm incorrect!

In eggy's situ I would prob HE. and I have big reservations about summerhill. there are a few schools I might consider though.

here is more info on early years HEing- muddlepuddle

I thought that too, filly - I was just interested in what makes people go down the home-ed route and wondered whether the OP would be prepared to talk about it a bit more. Did I say something I shouldn't have? Sorry if I did!

EBAB, I would love him to go to a small school if it had my philosophies, yes

(not sure if either that you mention fit the bill for me, plus we have no money for private education)

There is a home ed community in Norfolk who have set up a type of 'school' with a full time teacher etc. I wish there was something near us but I think we will have to muddle through, or move

curlew-sorry, no, not at all, not if thats your angle, great that you're curious. Have had a long conversation with my db last night which basically involved me talking through all his concerns about HE. On the plus side he pretty much came round, and for an uber-conventional toryboy who is, in the lovelist way imaginable, one step away from Vernon Dursely (except he is lovely not sadistic-but he does not like it when people, especially me, are wantonly Different)-this is pretty good going. On the other...dunno, am feeling a bit fragile re HEing.

Like I say, great that you're curious. There are as many reasons for HE as HE'rs though.

ps franny, any more info re the school? dp is from norfolk. would like to check it out on next visit to the flat county.

curlew check out this thread it has lots of reasons why some of us have chosen HE.

Hi all. Interesting to hear that there's a HE "school" in Norfolk. Any more info?

Filly, am 100% with you on the peers thing. Ds (two) had a three- and four-year-old over to play this afternoon, and even just that extra year/two years made a bit of a difference.

I also wonder if ds will be so enthused by pre-school once he clocks I'll be leaving him there. Every mum I have spoken to has said of course he'll cry, but you'll just have to leave him there and he'll get over it eventually . We'll play it by ear. I'm expecting some uncertainty, and maybe a little bottom lip quivering, but much more than that, then ds is not ready, imo.

Curlew (call me EBAB if it's easier ), a really interesting point re: why we're looking at HE at all. Yes, I think you're right in saying that we have a fairly idyllic school set-up here. What I feel unsure about is not the school itself, but the concept/philosophy of schooling. I expanded on this, er, considerably before realising I'd got into a wine-fuelled essay, and would do better to leave it to the experts. So check this out, where home ed "guru" John Holt explores 17 common objectives to home schooling. He goes on for longer than me , and I think explains why HE could be better for some children/families than even a really good conventional school, like our local one. HTH.

Filly, one last question, please tell me more about Summerhill and your reservations. I'm intrigued as, on the surface, it seems closer to HE than conventional schooling in many ways. Would be grateful for a different perspective, particulary because we wonder about setting up an alternative school. Thanks.

EBAB

3. In the same way that all the kids at ds's kindy will not be going to his school (we are on the edge of a zone and all his friends are on the other side of the road). I hope that ds will remain friends with them.

I never thought that I would send ds to kindy as it means being away from home every morning at the tender age of 4. But as he approaches 4 I realise that he is so ready for it and will have a great time.

ok posting quickly here but summerhill

dont like it cos its a boarding school and feel kids dont get enough chance to see adults and learn from them-they are isolated from society.

my reservation re school generally is that I think they isolate kids from society to too great an extent. I think social and most other skills are best learnt by kind of informal apprenticeships (or family-style social relationships, I suppose) to older, more skilled people.

summerhill is a boarding school and bascially I just do not think there are enough adults around modelling useful behaviour, skills etc (even quite supposedly trivial things like going shopping is, IMO, a real learning experience on many levels-don't think the kids really do this with other adults.)

Now if it wasn't a boarding school, if I lived locally, I would certainly consdier it because, to be brutally honest, I don't actually especially want to spend the next 15 years at home with my kids-I have about 300 other things I'd like to do and I want a break! And spending all day playing with other kids is fine imo if there is some balance.

but I do really think kids should just be in society, running about and picking stuff up as they go, maybe some compulsory basic skills (reading, writing, arithmatic-some will disagree though), in there, but thats it.

as neill was a bit funny with his "private lesson" (psychoanalysis) IMO but he is dead and so this is less of an issue. Have you read the books/seen the film/etc?

oh having said all that i might consider it when ds/dd are older, like 14 or 15, as I can kind of see that for some kids, time away from home to grow up in as teenagers might be helpful.

Must admit to being also influenced here by Bettleheim's children of the dream-Israeli communes, he argued that the kids over-identified with their peers to the extent of lacking a discrete identity, though I later heard that he made a lot of the data up? So maybe not.

oh god, me and my quick posts! they are longer cos I don't preview or edit at all

Sorry I lost track of this discussion - I will get more info on the home ed "school" which I believe is in Beccles, but having no luck searching on the net. Will ask my friend who is planning to move there next year, and report back.

There is a school in NZ that I have visited that would fit your model of being out in society. You also don't have to be there all the time - you can be partly home ed. Maybe you should move here!

I was a bit anti school - but recently I've been working in a couple and they are lovely places, where the kids work in small groups, learn outside if the weather is nice. And they are only there from 9am - 3pm so plenty of time for me to make an input in ds's life.

Is emigration less hassle than home ed - discuss.

threebob - I think emigration would be a lot less hassle than home ed. Will suggest it to the rest of the family!

Christchurch. Called Discovery One.

i've just got back to this thread - I hope it's still active. I am in two minds about home ed - I am the adult result of home education myself, by the way. I ma concerned that, while the system has many many things wrong with it, and there are better, faster and less traumatic ways of learning more of more interesting stuff, the fact remains that it is the system we live in, and if our children grow up to want to be doctors, or physicists or study medieval French literature, how are they going to feel if they have not been given the basic conventional education necessary to do it. My neice was home educated too, and has recently been called to the Bar at the age of 35. She is very conscious that she is significantly older than her fellow new barristers, and she is unlikely ever to catch them up, especially if she chooses to have children. This post is just musing aloud - prompted by my realization that even though my own education was in many ways a positive experience, I have not even considered home ed for my own children. They go to a very large state Primary school, where they rub up agaist "all sorts and conditions of" children, they get a bit of education (suplemented by me at home!) and learn a huge amount about life and relationships and independence that I could not hope to offer them at home. Sorry for the legnth, anybody whose read this - I will go now!