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is this just laziness or "normal"?

20 replies

Thinking2014 · 13/09/2014 14:16

My DD8 throws tantrums when I give her a small pile of her clothes to put in her drawers or (worst one) suggest she have a bath today....
I've been treading lightly around the topic of any "work" in the hope we can "slip some in" gradually or even by her wanting to do some (text book) work ! But now I'm wondering if I haven't bitten off more than i can chew here....what if she's just "lazy"? Personal hygiene seems like such a chore to her it worries me....please tell me its a phase that will pass....I can't stand laziness so im biting my tongue...after all she's only a child?!

Don't get me wrong, she's been very crafty lately but when it seems she might actually have to work at something she seems to give up Confused
I was meant to walk 10-15 minutes down the road to the shop today but she wasn't keen at all so I postponed it for tomorrow....

How do you all get "work" in? How do your children react to it?

OP posts:
Thinking2014 · 13/09/2014 14:17

*by "crafty" I mean "arts & crafts" Grin

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ommmward · 13/09/2014 16:56

"Lazy" just means "my priorities are not your priorities".

Some children love to bathe frequently. Some don't. For those who don't, if they start to get smelly, then it's a matter of finding creative ways of making immersion in water fun (paddling pool full of warm water; go and swim in a swimming pool or the sea; find a river to skinny dip in; one of those water park places or a paddling pool in a park; give them a hose down outside the back door [warm water optional]).

Or it's a matter of making the washing imperative (go in a smelly pond or do some mud sliding or serious puddle hopping, after which child will almost certainly be keen to be washed on way or another)

Or just apply a warm flannel to the crucial places in the bit between pyjamas and clothes (or vice versa)

If it's important to you, it's up to you to be creative about finding ways of making it palatable to her :)

Thinking2014 · 13/09/2014 17:31

I guess you've got a point ommmward I didn't see it like that

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ommmward · 13/09/2014 18:58

So... if there's a shopping trip you want to do, think about ways of making it actually fun for her.

  1. have things on the list that she actually wants to get. Downplay your own chores - just quietly get them in the basket as you go round the shop

  2. think of ways for the journey down there to be positively fun. Go by bikes? Scooter? Roller skate practice all the way along the pavements with you helping if needed? Then the shop is an incidental event in what is actually a fun active trip

  3. if she really doesn't want to go to the shop, then Amazon.co.uk is your friend (yeah yeah yeah, I know, evil multinational, but they do have just about everything)

ommmward · 13/09/2014 19:03

... my children don't do "work" at all, if by that you mean explicitly educational stuff put in front of them by me. They play and play and play. And sometimes, that play (which is very intensive) has quite a lot of input from me, at their request, and some of that looks very very very educational, like practising spellings in the bath with those stick-on bath letters, or making a recipe book of all our favourite treats (sharing the writing and drawing at a stage-appropriate level for that child). And sometimes it doesn't look educational at all from the outside but they are still learning something - I might only find out what they were learning in six hours, or six months, or maybe never.

For me, one key thing is to be honest and authentic about what I want and need rather than self-sacrificing, and also to find ways of disciplining the physical environment and my own actions, so I'm not having to run around after other people All.The.Time. And inviting the children to join me in my activities, but not making a big deal of it (and they go through stages of wanting to be involved in the domestic/garden stuff and stages of not wanting to, and that's fine)

Hakluyt · 13/09/2014 19:03

Are you absolutely sure about all this "getting her to do things by stealth"?

I reckon some things should be non negotiable. A reasonable level of hygiene.

A fair amount of what other people (including the grown ups) want to do.

A reasonable number of the jobs around the house that make it pleasant for us all to live in.

17leftfeet · 13/09/2014 19:14

Has your dd got any SEN?

If not then some things are non negotiable at 8 yo and they include washing and going to the shop if need be

Ledkr · 13/09/2014 19:20

My dd is 12 and just wants to spend her life doing what she wants to do and nothing else so gets angry if I ask her to do anything.
I am trying to just get the job done and ignore her protests but it's very hard and drives me mad. She can't even switch off a light and leaves everything everywhere, i feel like a nag but I'm trying to teach her how to be a decent human being who actually does other stuff than what she wants.

Liara · 13/09/2014 19:25

We have a very different attitude.

We as a family really, really value work. The dc are praised most frequently for their hard work, regardless of results. Dh and I work together and thank each other for our work regularly too.

As a result, the dc rather enjoy working, and rise up to it even when they are having an off day. We are tolerant of this, but heap on the praise when they manage to turn it around and make it a productive day after all.

It not only makes our lives easier (actually make that possible, we are far too busy to get everything done unless the dc chip in) and makes them feel like they are valuable members of the team. It also gives them a good work ethic, which we think will serve them well in later life.

Work is actually really fulfilling, it is a very modern disease to regard it as an undesirable imo.

ommmward · 13/09/2014 19:35

Are you absolutely sure about all this "getting her to do things by stealth"?

I don't believe in stealth. I do believe in finding ways of negotiating with the people we live with so that everyone can leave the house without one of them throwing a tantrum, and that sometimes involves finding a way to make a particular activity palatable to one child when everyone else is already up for it - it's no fun for anyone if one person is melting down.

I reckon some things should be non negotiable. A reasonable level of hygiene.

What's 'reasonable' though? When I was a child, we used to bathe once or twice a week, and do the odd flannel wash in between. Similarly, we'd wear shirts and t shirts until they got smelly rather than washing every single time. I remember being astonished at American cousins who insisted on washing every item of clothing after it had been worn once. I think the norm has moved towards more washing, of both bodies and clothes, but it isn't a moral imperative, just a cultural shift in expectations. As long as someone isn't smelly or (too) grubby then meh.

Of course there are conversations to be had with our children about levels of personal hygiene, but that doesn't mean forcing someone into a bath they don't want to take.

A fair amount of what other people (including the grown ups) want to do.

Totally agree - absolutely essential (and easier for that to become a natural part of family life when there is more than one child in the mix, IME). I think I wrote something totally along those lines upthread, about the inadvisability of parental self sacrifice.

A reasonable number of the jobs around the house that make it pleasant for us all to live in.

I was brought up in the other school of thought on this one. My mother always said that she'd prefer the children's contributions to the domestic economy to be whole hearted acts of love / service/ giving. And it worked for us - by our teens we were routinely doing ironing because we wanted to help, and making jam and cooking meals and baking, feeding the poultry, mowing, doing the washing up, and hoovering. etc etc. There was no list of chores for each child; but my mother was always happy to suggest something we could do that would be useful. And we've grown up without hangups about domestic chores, and all able to live in a reasonable hygienic environment and tidy enough that we wouldn't get onto a TV show about hoarders or anything.

And I see exactly the same with my own children - there's a stage when they are very small where they want to "help" with everything, and then there is a stage where they really aren't interested (with various baking related exceptions, of course), and then they grow into a stage where they actively want to do domestic things and are competent to do so. It's really wonderful to watch it develop!

ommmward · 13/09/2014 19:41

I totally agree that work is really fulfilling. The work that is most fulfilling of all is the work that is grounded in self-motivation rather than being externally imposed, IMO.

That's why I don't impose work on my children in a top down way. They are really really really productive, intellectually engaged etc etc - it just doesn't necessarily manifest itself in the ways it would if I were to impose my idea of what productive work should look like.

Thinking2014 · 13/09/2014 19:43

I'm with the idea of making things fun so maybe I just need to be more imaginative with what we have...

I like the recipe book idea & bath letters... I'll try these Smile

Not sure what else I can do but try my best. I guess I'm just worried that I'm not doing enough...she plays (with her toys) a lot now which is what children should be allowed to do IMO...I think I just need to try chill & work around the bumps Smile

Thank you for the support though, its very appreciated Thanks

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ommmward · 13/09/2014 19:48

Don't go thinking they are my ideas and I'm all clever and creative, thinking2014 :)

My contribution was:

  1. to have a relative who gave us some foam bath letters, which have been in and out of the bath over the last few years

  2. to buy paper, a hole punch, some string, crayons and pens. Oh, and to know some good recipes.

I didn't prompt anyone to do any of these activities - I just didn't prevent them, and helped where required :)

Thinking2014 · 13/09/2014 20:08

I understand ommmward :)

I suppose that's exactly what my daughter has been doing with her arts & crafts lately. She came up with ideas, sourced the materials herself (around the house) & occasionally asked for some direction from me. So she's actually been learning, problem solving & creating all by herself Smile

I believe this will expand but for now she's exploring what she enjoys and I guess that is what children should be allowed to do anyway.

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ommmward · 13/09/2014 20:33

Perfect :)

Saracen · 14/09/2014 09:51

I too am in the laid back camp both about learning and about household tasks. My teenager is enthusiastic about learning the things which interest her and now helps out a good deal around the house, but she didn't do much at all when she was eight. My eight year old is also enthusiastic about learning (but only when it's her agenda, of course), and hardly does anything around the house yet.

It's possible for you as the parent to insist on having your way about certain things, without extending that into all aspects of life. I go for "choose your battles" and I have never found that "give them an inch and they'll take a mile". For example, I did require my kids to learn about road safety whether they liked it or not. When one of them was engaging in bullying behaviour by persistently encouraging her friends to exclude one child from a group, and didn't yield to persuasion, she was eventually told that I'd stop her from playing with groups of children if she didn't cut it out immediately. One of my kids has to take medicine on a regular basis to keep her alive, and I don't budge on that, not since she landed in A&E because I wasn't being firm enough. And anybody who wears muddy shoes up the carpeted stairs can expect an earful from me. I find that focusing on the few things which do matter to me and letting everything else go makes for a peaceful existence and frees me to concentrate on the few non-negotiables.

So, it might be worthwhile to think about how important it is to you that your daughter should comply with each of the things you want her to do, and whether you can step back from all the less-important things. Where you draw the line is a personal matter.

ommmward · 14/09/2014 12:06

You are so wise Saracen. Agree with every word

:)

Thinking2014 · 14/09/2014 13:31

Thanks, that's a good point. Smile

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Mumstheword21 · 14/09/2014 16:21

ommmward and saracen - if only mumsnet had a 'like' button...!!

You are always both absolutely spot on with your posts, I find it so helpful to read your comments (on any thread). Thanks

Nigglenaggle · 14/09/2014 18:41

Haha I am with her on the baths lol. I was a filthy child. I could and still do think of a hundred more fun & useful things to do with my time. My mum bought lots of bath toys, played games and persuaded /cajoled us into baths twice a week. I'm not well groomed but as an adult I wash often enough to hold down a professional job and be accepted into polite company. The non negotiable bit was the hairdryer as she was worried I would catch cold. After years of being cornered and blow dried, haven't gone within three foot of one of the cursed items since I was old enough to resist. In short, I agree with Ommward Grin Make it fun, don't force it Grin

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