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Home ed

Find advice from other parents on our Homeschool forum. You may also find our round up of the best online learning resources useful.

Letter from School Health Service - wwyd?

294 replies

noodle6 · 26/06/2012 10:30

I received a letter from the School Health Service. I'm not quite sure how to respond but clearly the LA had informed the Health Services (or the other way round?). Only my eldest DD is "known" so far - I withdrew her from school 2 years ago, and I now have another DD who turned 5 last Sept so I am guessing they are writing that because of my younger DD. This is so stupid because we have been using the GP services for any queries and health-related matters for the 2 years we have been home educating. We have had no need for any further meet-ups with health staff. Why would anything need to change now??

The letter, which is sent from a neighbouring Children's Centre which we never used, says :

"I am a Child Health Practitioner working within the Integrated Children's Team, working with children aged 0 - 19 years. I understand that your child/children is/are being homeschooled.

I would like to visit you and your child/ren at home on 09/07/12 at 14:00.

This will be an opportunity to discuss our service, offer any screenings and provide support with any health-related issues.

If this appointment is inconvenient I would be grateful if you could contact mee on the above telephone number so I can arrange a more suitable time.

Kind regards

Yours sincerely

XXXXXXX
Child Health Practitioner

(signed) XXXXXX - Assistant Practitioner"

How should I respond? I think I'd better respond in writing. I just need some ideas. Should I say "Thank you for your offer, but we have been using the GP's services for support in health-related issues and are very happy to continue as such. I do not see the need for any additional health-related services."?? Or is there a better way to put it?

Any suggestions or thoughts about this appreciated. TIA.

OP posts:
CaramelTree · 26/06/2012 23:57

But the vast majority of parents don't have a HCP come into their home once their child is out of toddler stage. The vast majority of children spend most of their time in the family home, whether they are home schooled or not.

Home schooled children are not part of the state education system. It is up to them to make whatever arrangements suit them best in terms of getting children the necessary checks.

To say these health checks must involve a home visit when no school attending child gets a home visit is simply prejudice against home educators.

If you are arguing that all families should have a home check to see if they are abusing their children, that is a separate argument.

Suze77 · 27/06/2012 00:02

I think people often see what they expect to. So people who are trained to spot signs of abuse will frequently spot signs of abuse that isn't there. Real abusers are usually very good at hiding it and very manipulative. I think routine abuse spotting checks would lead to a lot of false positives (devastating for the families involved) but determined abusers would continue to slip through the net. I think it would destroy more lives than it saved.

I'm sorry for what you went through, Cailin. I think you're being very brave to engage with this debate. I also think one of the best ways to prevent abuse is to help children speak out, and when survivors speak out, they make it easier for other people, they help show others there's nothing to be ashamed of. So thank you for being so open.

hugglymugly · 27/06/2012 00:08

No, I'm not inclined to ask for my post to be removed. Everything that Cailin posted to date was about her own personal and horrifying story and that's all anyone could relate to in terms of her concerns about children not being inspected for possible abuse. The addition of the educational qualifications makes no difference.

It's about the allegations that some people home educate in order to hide something that's the issue. Those allegations are abusive.

Suze77 · 27/06/2012 00:22

I think Cailin has courageously brought up her own experience in order to show people what's at stake. I think insinuating that her history is clouding her judgement is a truly horrible thing to do, and by far the most abusive thing I've seen on this thread.

kitsonkittykat · 27/06/2012 00:37

Noodle, Im absolutely disgusted with the way this thread has gone. I wasn't going to post, as to be honest after my home-ed related flaming, I am not really up for posting anymore, but Im upset reading this, so I dread how you are feeling.

Shame on those who personally attacked Noodle and made suggestions that she is mentally unwell, making herself feel victimised, and needs to be checked up on just in case she is abusing her children! This is not AIBU, it should be a safe space for home edders to discuss issues, and those who are posting to attack and push their anti-home education views and prejudices are not adding anything constructive. Most home edders are perfectly aware that some people treat our choices as highly suspect, and have this forced down our throats regularly.

I think a polite letter is absolutely the way to to go. I might also call her just to make sure she gets the message that you do not require her services.

The last time I checked the UK was a free country, home education was legal, and individuals have the right to a private life. If anyone suspects a crime has been committed, or is someone has seen proof of anything untoward, sure get social services involved, but if not, then people really need to fuck the fuck off and leave loving, dedicated families alone to live their lives the way they wish.

Lyraedu · 27/06/2012 01:02

I absolutely agree with you, Kits.

Hope you're ok, Noodle. My first thoughts were that the visit 'requesting' to see you and the children sounded odd, as we've had quite a different, and more positive, experience with the Health Services.

Noodles is and has engaged with health professionals I think she said. So I'm not sure why her being reluctant to agree to Health Services inviting themselves into her home would be a cause for concern.

julienoshoes · 27/06/2012 09:35

Hello noodle,
I'm in the interesting position of being a long time home educator-with even longer experience of being a child health care professional.
Ignore all the negative stuff on here about you being paranoid. I'ts bullshit. It's completely up to you whether your child sees a health care professional at all.
Nothing suspicious, just your choice.
The nurse, will just have written you a standard letter offering her services.
I didn't take them up any more than I took up the opportunity to see the HV either. I just didn't need them.
Waste of my time and theirs otherwise. Likewise I can count on the fingers of one hand how often our three saw the GP in all the years we were home educating. They did see other health professionals, when we needed them.

Until someone can show me any evidence that home educated children are more at risk-I won't be rushing to advise HE parents to allow a home visit with anyone from the LA, unless they and their children want to.

On the other hand I am sometimes on the end of the phone to some desperate parent with a child so badly damaged at school, that the thought of any visit being imposed by someone from the LA, has made the child dangerously upset.
My job as a parent was to protect my child/ren and listen and respect their wishes-in our case our home was their sanctuary from the damage down to them by school. Hell would have frozen over before they were getting anywhere near my kids again.

ZZZenAgain · 27/06/2012 09:42

I agree with kits too, this is a dreadful thread, totally unhelpful to OP

Floggingmolly · 27/06/2012 09:43

Julienoshoes, so? Hmm. Why doesn't she just say a polite "no" without taking so much offence and assuming sinister motives why simply aren't there?

Floggingmolly · 27/06/2012 09:44

which

CaramelTree · 27/06/2012 10:02

I don't think the OP is being paranoid. She was just asking questions about if she actually needed this service. Some people helpfully told the OP that parents often didn't notice hearing problems because they can be easy to miss, which the OP took on board.

The thread then became a vast debate about abuse and how to identify abusers, which has been almost entirely one sided about parents as abusers, ignoring the fact that stuff that is abusive goes on in schools all the time and is often poorly dealt with. It would be lovely if schools were some kind of haven but that is simply not the case. It doesn't help anyone for there to be some conflict driven attitude between people in authority and parents, which is what is being promoted on this thread. It has little to do with the OP's questions which were about basic health checks and promotes a negative image of school nurses who, in my experience, don't have an authoritarian attitude and are great with kids.

julienoshoes · 27/06/2012 10:09

Floggingmolly she has sent the polite letter. She posted here on a home ed section to ask others opinions. I happen to agree with her.It is a stupid waste of time. But I can see the school nurse has boxes to tick. I doubt very much that the school nurse knows anything about HE actually, other than the usual misunderstood hype. I know I didn't know anything, before became desperate for an alternative.
I often spend time educating fellow child health care professionals about HE. They won't have come across it in their training at all.
Others here have suggested the OP is paranoid etc.
Some LAs do treat home educators in a sinister way.
Some posters here do, so I can understand totally her mistrust. I don't trust most LAs as far as I can throw them. Too many lie to home educators I'm afraid, about what the law actually is.
Just last week, we had one officer of an LA tell a home educator, that the LA poliicy is above the law........

kitsonkittykat · 27/06/2012 10:49

I think Noodle and other Home-edders have been very restrained in the face of very personal attacks by fellow mumsnetters. I don't see home-schooling parents going onto the other education discussion threads and criticizing people's choices in educating their children. I asked for a flaming, to a certain extent, because I posted in AIBU. I should have expected it. However poor Noodle just asked for some advice and got accused of being a potential abuser, and having mental health issues!

Ive a good mind to set up a thread in chat, so all these virulent anti-home-education types can discuss their views without upsetting parents who home educate.

I do hope you are alright, Noodle!

Lyraedu · 27/06/2012 10:56

Well I know that I'm not alone (as a home educator) in being put off the idea of posting about any home education concerns here in the future. It has become quite a challenging environment to post in, and I don't consider myself faint-hearted!
I do hope this can be addressed...

kitsonkittykat · 27/06/2012 11:01

You are definately not alone, Lyra. I cant see how it can or will be addressed to be honest, but it is very sad that this section, which should be a sanctuary for home educators, has turned into a fight club, with such horribly hurtful attacks on home educating families.

julienoshoes · 27/06/2012 11:24

Lyraedu
are you on FaceBook?
there is a FB page for home educating mumsnetters send me a pm with details of your FB profile, and f you want to join, I'll accept you there.

I've send a few threads recently, where none HE people make judgements and comments that are not at all helpful to families who are home educating or interested in doing so.
Imagine the outrage if I were to go onto the schooling boards and make judgements about parents who send their children to school every day.

I don't because sincerely believe a system where a parent is the person trusted with the children's best interests at heart, unless their is evidence to the contrary is the best we can hope for.

It might be interesting for you to read what an MP who has taken the time to read councils policies on home education, has to say on the subject.
Graham Stuart is Chair of the Education select Commitee. he had this to say about one LAs stance on HE, when speaking on the subject in the House of Commons:

"The Lancashire local authority, in one of the most egregious examples, states:

?Lancashire Officers will take the lead on this because they have the responsibility to ensure the safety of all children as well as to monitor the quality of education received by children educated at home.?

That is a nice one, neatly conflating the issues of safety and home education. No one has yet arrived at my house during the summer holidays just to check up on the safety of my children, who are, after all, spending months at home with me. Who knows what my wife and I might get up to, or what the younger or older sister might do? Who knows what visiting relatives might do? What we need are visitors from the local authority, just to make sure. I do not want people such as the director of children?s services in my local authority to lose a moment?s sleep because they feel that they are not pursuing every possibility of intervention to cover their own backsides and telling me how I should run things in my own home. That is precisely what the local authority suggests should be done in the case of home-educating parents, who deserve its intervention no more than the rest of us. The document continues:

?Thus, when a practitioner or professional becomes aware that a child is being educated at home, they should use local information sharing arrangements to help the Lancashire Authority to fulfil both its duty to be confident??

so it has a duty to be confident now?

?of the well-being of the child and its duty to assure the quality of the education provided.?

That, too, is not true.

As far as I can tell from one evening spent looking at their websites, council after council is entirely misrepresenting the legal position, and I hope that the Minister will put that right."

I'm happy to report that Lancashire is one of the few LAs to now have made their policies legally correct!

Schools are judged by Ofsted, to make sure they are giving value for the tax payers money and to report back to parents.
I didn't use tax payers money to educate my children, once i had freed them from the awful place school was for them-and didn't need anyone else to tell me how well my children were progressing, I could see that for myself!

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 27/06/2012 11:29

You know what? I dint even realise that this was in HomeEd! Blush
Although I have been broadly supportive of the op I wouldn't have posted if I had realised.
Sorry op.
Considering where this thread is I would agree that the op has been very restrained.
Bloody hell it's like people piling in on adoption or SN and making judgements(that happens and it bloody horrible)

SardineQueen · 27/06/2012 12:09

I didn't realise it was in home ed either Confused

Was it here the whole time or has it been moved?

Agree with this "Bloody hell it's like people piling in on adoption or SN and making judgements(that happens and it bloody horrible)" sorry OP

kitsonkittykat · 27/06/2012 12:16

It has not been moved. It was always in home ed. I think the OP is owed more than a few apologies imo.

noodle6 · 27/06/2012 12:25

I must thank all the posters for their kind concern. I have typed and sealed the envelope so am off to the post office this afternoon to post it off. As a sidenote, I heard that many HEors in my area have also turned down the letter's offer so I don't feel alone in doing this. I decided to back off the thread yesterday as I felt it had descended into unpleasantness.

It's sad that a HE board thread has gone the way of an AIBU. I am not a newbie at MN so I know what that can get like. Unfortunately I think the problem with MN is that every single new post gets posted under Active Conversations whether or not it is in a support forum for HE or SN, for example, so every post seems to be fair game to all who see it, and therefore you get posters who come on here to stir up trouble. They don't care that these are specialised forums for parents who do indeed lead a rather different lifestyle from the norm and obviously will have views that are unconventional to many. I'm not sure how to address this issue. What MN can do perhaps is to stop posts on the HE board for example, from getting posted under Active Conversations, so that it's more likely that only parents who frequent the HE boards because they have a personal interest or involvement in HE for example, will see the posts. However that also may mean that some people who may not have heard of HE but would consider it, would not get to see the posts? Or maybe MN can moderate the HE boards so that it is safe... but that goes against the spirit of free speech. So I'm not sure how to go about it. Perhaps someone else here has better ideas!

The HE board has been fantastic for me. In fact, it was a thread I posted many moons ago, which helped me decide to HE. There was anger and some vitriol on that thread, but also lots of support. Prior to that, I had been considering HE for many years since my eldest was 4. I first heard about HE through the homebirth forum I used to frequent because I was planning homebirths. Quite a few there who HE their children. I then joined my local HE group and was a member for a long time but was always afraid to take the plunge, thinking I won't be able to manage. It was the MN forums which helped me seal the fate, so to speak! Yes there is a fair bit of vitriol sometimes, but there are always going to be people who disagree with each other. Take the good and leave the bad behind, is the frame of mind I would advise all HEors (and those considering it) to take if they use these forums.

That's it from me now... I am not going to engage in further bunfights with those who are making personal attacks at me. If their minds are already made up about the issue, then nothing I say will change their mind. Once again, many thanks to all those sensible replies. I have taken them on board and will be making use of the school nurse service as and when I need them.

OP posts:
GoodPhariseeofDerby · 27/06/2012 12:28

hugglymugly No it isn't - most of Cailin's anecdotes are about abuse she witnessed in children at school as an adult/professional, not her own experiences of abuse. As someone who was also abused (whose abuse was also not picked up by others and even when it was, it was usually compounded or used to their own ends) my opinion on the topic is very different from hers and having opinions dismissed because of what happened to us previously is to further compound the abuse. You're basically saying the opinions of adults who survived child abuse are not valid and should be taken less seriously because of it. Can you not see how incredibly offensive that is? how ridiculous that is? how it's just adding more fuel to a system that allows it to happen? You'd think people might want to listen to adult survivors to see how to change the system (even when we have very different ideas on how to do that) rather than negate us as being too weak to handle it.

CaramelTree · 27/06/2012 12:35

Noodle, sorry you have been subject to some unpleasant remarks on this thread. I didn't come on to this thread via active conversations, I came across it while looking for threads on the home ed section about activities and educational styles to use at home, although my own children are at school.

I have found this section very useful and feel that home educators have a lot of insight into educating children that is of benefit to all parents. I'm sorry that the people who contribute to this section as home educators have to put up with a lot of vitriol from people who have no respect for your experience or contribution to this section.

only4tonight · 27/06/2012 13:39

The view I have expressed here are not actually views against he. I am sorry if they were construed that way.

I value the option of he and if circumstances aligned it would not be something I ruled out doing myself in the future.

However, I don't actually think this is a home education issue. For me it is about the exclusion of all outside services. The assumption that parents have the power and right to do as they will with their children and never be checked.

In a way it is nice. There is an assumption that child abuse is caused by neglect or lack of knowledge. But the truth is there are people out there who hurt children because they enjoy doing so. These people are clever and manipulative and will exploit anything they can to allow them to continue with their hobby. These are NOT home educators. These are people who would use he as an excuse to cover up their actions and under these circumstances we must all accept some degree of intrusion in order to try to protect the most vulnerable.

CaramelTree · 27/06/2012 14:15

Then why don't you go and start a thread on that in another section? It is like coming on a thread about a gay male couple whose child does have contact with women, and then making out that gay couples may attempt to stop a child having contact with women in order to hide abuse. Then claiming you are just discussing abuse in general terms and have no issue with gay couples.

only4tonight · 27/06/2012 14:35

No I was saying that while the op is a home educatucator and no doubt very capable, a level of intrusion is inevitable because loopholes cannot exist that other, less honerable, people may exploit. The letter in question was not personal to the op, nor a slight on her abilities or parenting, but a general letter to everyone who is claiming, honestly or not, to home educate. A general letter allows the authorities to honestly say they are not accusing an individual without evidence but a visit is part of normal practice.

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