home ed when a working parent

[treedelivery]

Hello

I have a 7yo (also a preschool age child) that we are considering HE for in Sept. She simply doesn't enjoy school very much and I really think she needs some time out to learn at her own pace (faster) and grow into her skin a bit more (she struggles with stress and fitting in and so on). I am interested in educ ation and am pretty sure we could figure out a usefull working HE experience.

However I am a worker, and I do 30 hrs which are shifts. So I might be out of the house for 3 solid days and nights and then need some pretty good rest to recover from day and night shifts in the same week. Or I might have a couple of shifts early week then a weekend night. I also need to do about 4-6 hrs or work at home in my own time.

DH is a star, also a full time undergrad student doing lots of placements and study and generally absorbed in that.

We 'aint rich either Struggling on one national average income and runnign the house etc etc. Workign less is simply not an option.

What you reckon? Possible?

In my mind it is all a question of childcare. The actual education side of HE can be done in various ways, and some of these options are not very time-consuming for the parents.

How are you managing to look after your preschooler at the moment? If the two of you are doing it yourselves (in which case I am impressed! sounds like hard work in your situation), then having your older daughter also on your hands wouldn't be much more difficult.

If you are using paid childcare for your preschooler then I should think you will also need that for your older child. A childminder could be a flexible option. The childcare element of Tax Credits will apply to your older child just as it does to your younger one, so that will bring the cost down considerably. Try playing about with one of those online benefits calculator thingies to see how it would affect your Tax Credits if you had an additional child in childcare.

How many hours of childcare do you currently use? Could you afford either to have one of you not work for that many hours, or for your OH to go part time on the degree, or to use a childminder for that many hours?

You might well find yourself as a real shift couple while your Oh finishes his degree - seeing each other briefly every day at handovers and maybe managing half an hour more. Remember that texts, emails, messages by the kettle, phone calls in a snatched ten minutes while travelling can all be good ways of keeping the communication channels open for a year or two while you aren't actually seeing each other much (but you probably know all this as a shift worker!)

Thank you for these answers. Brilliant.

It never occurred to me child tax credits might help - although we don't get any now perhaps with a child minder we would. Hmm. I'll fiddle with an online do da.

The big problem with childminders and all child care is I do not work set shifts or days (and there is no way this can be achieved in my job) so if I sigh dd1 up for a childminder she may well be there on my day off when we need to learn together.

DD2 gets her 15 hrs preschool and we rely on grandparents, dh and shifts falling at weekends etc. I cant imagine the gps being very happy with having a 7yo plus the toddler, they are in 70's and we already ask so so much.

Hmmm. If I didn't have to work it would be so easy. But I do, I am the only earner in the house and the bills need paying. We are very close to having more going out than coming in as it is and debt is building due to uni fees and loans. Tricky times.

Have looked at all the online calculators and stuff - I really am not sure this is do-able.

Today we had both the children at home and it made it clear there could be no learning in this house if they are together. They are chalk and cheese and can't be left in the same room without tears and or screams. DD2 will have her 15 hrs free preschool - but the chances of that falling on my days off are hit and miss and we can't get much done in small 2-4 hr blocks. I agree I'd really need constructive childcare - and I can't afford it. Even if I could, who will be that flexible? To get money looking after my children one week but not the next?

Bugger.

"I agree I'd really need constructive childcare - and I can't afford it. Even if I could, who will be that flexible? To get money looking after my children one week but not the next?"

Somebody who is getting paid a bit over the odds, perhaps? That was my solution when I needed occasional short-notice childcare for my 5/6 year old. I used to do contract work and it wasn't unusual for a client to ask me to work a lot of hours over a short period of time without much advance warning. I used childminders who happened to be home educating themselves, which was a bonus because dd got to play with big kids, but you could use any CM. At one point I had two childminders available, plus someone who wasn't a CM but who could babysit for a few hours at a time by taking dd to the park and other activities. Whenever a job came up, I would ring round to see who could fit dd into their schedule. In view of the inconvenience to them, I paid about 60% over the going rate. Dd liked the variety of going to various houses to play with different sets of children, see different adults, eat different food, and play with different toys. So it also made it easier for me when she was home, because she had less urgent need to get out of the house and have playdates arranged.

You could apply dd2's nursery entitlement towards a qualifying CM too, unless she is benefiting a lot from the nursery where she is. That entitlement continues until she reaches compulsory school age in the term after her fifth birthday. In that way, the subsidy you are getting for her could be made more flexible than the way you are now using it.

Then maybe the grandparents would be willing to plug the gaps?

Today we had both the children at home and it made it clear there could be no learning in this house if they are together.
Mine were like that, not so long ago. Still are, on some days. My solution was (is!) to sit all 3 of us round one big table, and do an activity with dd (4) whilst ds is doing work I've set him, so I can help him and keep her occupied at the same time. Then, if he needs more attention, I might put the TV on for her, or get some art stuff out so she can occupy herself for a bit. It does become possible to cater for both. It's also possible to gear projecty stuff so that the big one and the little one can both have some age-appropriate input.
we can't get much done in small 2-4 hr blocks
Yes, you can. You really, really can. You can get a surprising amount done. Most of the HErs I know don't actually do more than about 2-4 hours IN TOTAL per day of formalish stuff with their children. 3 is my maximum. In 3 hours, we can do maths, reading, writing, art, music, sciency stuff, RE, Latin... One thing you really, really DON'T need is 6 hours a day to get stuff into your child. Think about the school day. How much of that is spent on breaks, registration, assembly, setting up, clearing up? One estimate I saw put the actual learning time per day at between 1.5-2 hours. Honestly. You won't need more time than this.
As for the childcare issues, whereabouts are you, and do you know if there's a good HE network? If you're in London, there's a fantastic network. Short-term. you may have to find a flexible childminder, but I'd bet, in the longer term, you'd be able to find fellow HErs who'd be willing to help. I even know of a couple who childmind...

Oh thank you - you are all very encouraging!

So, the 2-3 hr blocks. Those would be when dd2 is in pre school. DO you think they will really be usefull? I guess so, I guess I would just have to be 100% organised and pre planned. Hmmm. That's encouraging IMcHunt thank you. In my head I see me and dd in this calm haze of pottering about the house from one task to another, with little reads and conversations in between. I fear reality will be dashing from one preschool pick up to another with a mad dash to Sainsury in the middle!

I am on the yorkshire coast and whilst I know there are some HE out there there are no actual meeting groups that I am aware of. There is a Yahoo group I have emailed to join, although I haven't heard as yet. It's an isolated bit of the planet and I looked on it as a major 'con' against HE as I'm aware there aren't the social and activity interests going on. Less of the cultural diversity or richness of a city. I've decided that as I can't do a great deal about that at this stage it's no use worrying too much. After all, there aren't any Ofsted outstanding schools of any sort either, doesn't stop the vast majority using the state school system.

Having said that there is a beach, a moor, a forest, a steam railway, fossils, weather, a castle, an abbey, a fishing port, a disused railway line, an RAF museum, a folk museum, country houses, walled gardens, open farms and all sorts within the region. So a few things to go at

Saracen That's a great idea and one we might be able to use in the future. As it is, and without boring you on our finances, putting dd2 into extra preschool to free me to HE and grandparents care for the 2 of them when I am on shift will leave us with a grand disposable income of......£250 per month. To fuel cars, buy food, clothes, rescources, anything that isn't a regular monthly bill. SHould be a real old larf!

Last night dh and I had a good chin wag about this and looked the finances. We agreed I would need to give up my 2nd job to reduce my hours from 30 + prep to 23 with no prep. SO finances will suffer. However hopefully some child tax credits will help out a little bit, perhaps they would cover her out of school clubs. I would be anxious to keep these on as a route to other friendships. I'm also anxious to keep up her music to try get her into our local little orchestra as another valuable out of school event.

Sorry I'm droning on - am using this as a diary!!!

Big step - have told my mum (she'll be delighted as she hates any sort of requirement to conform ) and I've asked to join a yahoo group locally and one 1.25 hrs away. It's 60 miles but if it's once a fortnight or something it is well worth it.

Hell, I have to drive that far to get to an Asda for cheap school uniform. No Moooooore! Wow!

I reckon you could get everything you need to get done and more in that time. Honestly I do. I home ed and work too, only my work is mainly at weekends, but I do have a lot of prep to do during the week at home, and I usually have most of every afternoon in which to do it. It is just a question of planning- you'll obviously get through less if you're not organised. Highly recommend as well, if you can take the extra fiver a week, that you grocery shop online. It saves so much time.
I think I know where you are. It's lovely up there :)

Oh yay! Well done. Yes, on the days when I wobble, it helps if it's raining really hard, and I can look out of the window at the sad, damp procession of parents and children heading to school, and think 'this may be hard work, but at least I don't have to go out in that!'. Likewise, if it's lovely outside, it's nice to be able to tip the children onto their bikes and head out to the park. Oh, and you get to use the swimming pool when it's empty, and go to museums when they're not busy, and go on holiday during school term :)

Have moved from downhearted to excitied! As long as I don't think about havign them both here killing each other whilst I am recovering from a night shift or the money every thing comes up roses

Can't wait to hear from these groups - it will give me my first insight into what is actually available locally. I read about the type of things that go on nationally but have to remind myself that isn't likely where I live. It will be good to know what there is out there.

Bet I'm not so enthusiastic tomorrow morning after a night shift.

Bear in mind that if you HE, you don't need to be so constrained by what's available locally as you do if your kids are in school. I'm in Kent and we recently did a day trip to York- booked well in advance, and on a weekday, it was very cheap. The freedom is immense.

Totally brilliant that your mum is keen. That will make a huge difference to you both practically and emotionally I should think. Is she one of the grandparents who have been helping out with childcare already? If so, it is great that her first reaction was not one of terror at having both children on her hands sometimes!

I think you may have misunderstood me about my preschool suggestion. I wasn't saying put your dd2 into extra preschool. I was suggesting taking her OUT of preschool completely and using a CM instead for those funded 15 hours a week. No financial difference to what you're doing now. Just because it would be more flexible for you. You could use those hours when you really needed them. Plus neither you nor the grandparents would end up trekking off to preschool or school to somebody else's schedule on days when you'd rather not have to go at all. I expect you find it a pain sometimes to arrange all those nursery and school runs?

"Today we had both the children at home and it made it clear there could be no learning in this house if they are together. They are chalk and cheese and can't be left in the same room without tears and or screams."

This will change once you have them both at home and your eldest has gotten school out of her system. I promise you! Mine used to fight like cat and dog when they were at school. Youngest came out of school first, and things improved a bit. Then eldest came out, and youngest was pretty resentful. Mine are chalk and cheese too. Four years on, they are absolute best friends. They are as thick as thieves. They're too old now to play together as such but they sit for hours having meaningful conversations, joking, laughing. They go shopping together and encourage and help each other with ballet, skating and music. They share all their secrets. I would never have believed a sibling relationship could be like this. School is destructive to families in ways we don't even imagine.

I work too, quite long hours. I'm in school teaching music on a Monday. I teach quite long hours from home on Tuesdays and Wednesdays. I also work for a music exam board and at certain times of the year (like now, grr) I am never off the phone, plus I am days and days stewarding music exams. DH works shifts so we really are a bit all over the place. Luckily my parents are near and do quite a lot, despite being in their 70s. They found the girls miles easier to cope with once they weren't in school. It's difficult fitting it all in and the girls are left to their own devices a lot. Luckily mine are older and I don't need the childcare like I did. Somehow or other in this muddle of restricted finances, long working hours for both me and DH (notice I'm posting at 1am?) and pretty neglected children, my eldest has gained 10 GCSEs and my youngest seems to be doing very nicely. :)

It won't be the easiest thing you've ever done in terms of your free time and it will take a lot of juggling; I'm not going to pretend it won't. But I think you can probably make it work if you want to.

Sorry not to get back to your replies How rude. Have had some ill health issues (both dd and mine).

Saracen - that is a good idea! I will see how the first little while goes and maybe consider that as an option. DD2 loves her preschool but I can't see a reason why she wouldn't love a childminder too.

musicposy - ooooh that is good to hear. Good to hear about their special relationship and good to hear that your are also faced with work juggles. Apart from mine being young our situations are similar. Congratulations on making it work

Things here have taken a turn. DD has hardly been to school this week due to pain - she has had a few hospital admissions and generally been in and out. Had bloods, xrays and so on. Finally a consultant plucked up courage and said he feels it is psychological. He asked if we felt that was a possibility. We asked him how long he'd got

DD spoke about being really unhappy at school and described bullying. It's odd though. She said girls are bad to her and hit her. He took that to be her main anxiety issue.

However if you question her futher she will tell you 'well, no, they don't hit me but they are nasty' So I think she does have some quirks and is also trying to manipluate her world to get what she wants. Fair enough.

Now I need to figure out if she is trying to get out of school because she knows it isn't right for her, or if deep seated anxiety about being different is about to be made a whole lot worse by us removing her from the great 'normal' that is school

Sigh.

School isn't normal, it's weird. Normal societies don't have humans herded into age matched groups of 30. Schools are peculiar and recent.

And I don't home ed, so I've no axe to grind about home being better. both mine are in fulltime school.

Ha you are so right! The west is very stupid in that respect isn't it - what is common is normal and what is normal is right. No questions asked.

Except here of course.

We have the ed social worker coming soon. I wonder. I wonder if they are coming to tick boxes so they can move on to other families in more need, or if they are here to.....I don't know. I don't like to think about that. I have no reason to assume the worst and no reason to encourage potentially crippling thoughts.