dyscalculia

[mumette]

i took my 8 yr dd out of school 18 months ago, and started to noticed straight away that something was amiss with her english and maths. ive had her tested for dyslexia, and yes, quite severe, but she now has a weekly session which we carry on with during the week, she can now just about put the alphabet in the correct order and spell simple 3 letter words. but her tutor is under the impression she could also have dyscalculia too.
the little sweetie doesnt understand a very simple pattern, etc @#@#@ what comes next?

she has major problems with adding just 1 digit to another, cant understand that adding 1 to another is the same as counting on 1 eg. 12 +1=?
ive read somewhere that a very sympathetic teacher is needed to take them back to the roots, so thats what we've done, starting from total scratch again. but ive now got a very stroppy little girl who now wont do any work whats so ever. it doesnt really help that shes 1 of 4 and the only girl, who looks up to her 2 big brothers who are 17 andd 15 and in her eyes are god (i dont think so), and her little brother 6 yrs old with slight learning difficultiess, who are all excelling at the 2 main subjeccts in her eyes. they are all home ed apart from the eldest who is now in college.
if anyone has dealt with dyscalculia, or could plaese guide me at all i would be so pleased. i so struggle with maths myself so i totaly understand what my dd is going through, but luckily she doesnt need to stand up infront of a classroom full of people and get sooo laughed at, im amazed that my big uns are so good at maths lol

Hi Mumette, sorry I'm just being nosy as I don't actually know anything about dyscalculia - my dd is a bit younger than yours but has some difficulty with reasoning and logic.

I was just curious because the examples you gave seemed to be more formal presentations of arithmetic: does your daughter struggle with basic common-sense mathematical ideas as mine does, or is it just formal maths?

For example, can she do things like these:
Put out the right number of plates for all the members of the family at dinnertime?
Understand that if someone isn't coming to dinner after all, that means removing one plate from the table?
Share out six biscuits equally between two people?
Understand that a pound coin is worth more than a 10p?
Make a pattern that doesn't involve numbers, such as making something out of Lego bricks arranged in red-yellow-green-red-yellow-green?

If your daughter is OK with the above sort of thing, I'm vaguely wondering whether perhaps she is just not ready for formal maths. Perhaps she doesn't recognise that all these numbers with which she is being presented are rooted in her experiences of the real world, and she is getting frustrated and switching off whenever she sees numbers? As far as I know, there is no evidence that doing formal arithmetic at an early age helps mathematical development.

Sounds like the current approach is starting to put her off maths. Would it be an option to drop it and see what happens?

mumette, when you say you had her tested, did she have a full EP assessment? This will separate out the areas she is struggling with, and which areas are good, which then allows you to target with specific therapies. The therapies can make learning easier; similar to taking the hand-brake off when driving a car. Without this, it will be slow going and possibly imposssible, or impermanent, if her blockages are strong. The special needs education section is worth a look at, too. Good luck.

My children and I suffer with a degree of dyscalulia...as well as dyslexia and the rest.
We've dealt with it, by learning through life. They can all budget and manage money, cook, work out train timetables and travel independently. We've helped put up teepees, built brick houses and played lots and lots of card games.
Maths websites have helped-when the child has wanted to do them, but we haven't pushed anything that the child hasn't wanted to do.

As with the reading it's come along in it's own time. Ds has gotten himself the equivelant of a GCSE grade B, when he needed to, to get to Uni.
DD2 who had very severe problems with dyslexia etc, still has difficulties with written calculations, but can manage her life very well indeed-and is much more independent than many of the people she is on her Uni level course with. But that is much better than many people diagnosed with severe difficulties like her (and for many going through school, with much less of a problem) who think they can't do any maths and get muddled with every day management on numbers.

thankyou for the replies. saracen , my little girl has no understanding at all of any form of pattern work, numbers, letters, colour patterns etc. its quite frustrating for her, and me(which i know it shouldnt). she couldnt share out anything, not without me more or less doing it for her anyway. we've been playing with coins, looking at the values, shapes and colours of them, showing her that each one is different. playing shops, but she gets angry at herself. i do feel like crying for her.
i dont know whether to leave of the 'maths' work for the time been and just consentrate on her reading, as shes quite dyslexic too, and of course that is a form of pattern work in itself. her dyslexic tutor is fantastic and dd does sometimes enjoy going.
julienoshoes its wonderful to know that there is other people out there who know what we are going through, my mil lives next door and is anti home ed, so i do tend to get blamed for dd having problems, even though my older 2 are fine

Oh I've cried with my and for my children-especially my youngest.
I'd put down the formal stuff for now, and play games. simple card games that she can do without feeling that she has to understand complicated rules or read words.
and Lego! Lego is wonderful! You can talk about bigger and smaller bricks, she can make houses and villages. There is SO much educational value to Lego, but I would just let her play with it, and join in with what she wants and don't appear to be doing anything 'educational' with it. Your daughter is clearly so scared of maths she'll run from it if you do.

there is actually a Lego Club online somewhere for home educated children-I'm asking about to find the link for you.

my friend sent me the details for the Free online Lego Club for Home Schooled children

"The educational benefits of Legos are known far and wide and now you'll have access to a safe, online environment for your kids to make new friends, use their imaginations, and work through challenges."

there seems to be a new online meeting every Monday
My friend really rates it, and the reviews from home ed parents are very good indeed.

Wish it had been available for my youngest!

Your daughter sounds somewhat similar to mine then Mumette, but I am still in wait-and-see mode and haven't read up about the subject at all yet. I live in fear of the frustration you describe and would rather do too little than push too hard and risk teaching her that maths is unpleasant. As far as I know there is no essential "window of opportunity" as far as learning mathematical ideas so I am trying to remain relaxed.

My little girl does seem to be grasping some concepts that she didn't before - she has recently started being able to do the plate thing, so I think that means she understands one-to-one correspondence even if she can't yet count objects and assign numbers to them.

I think I can remain cheerful if I look at her and only her, at the things she understands this year which she didn't last year, and forget about all the other children I know!

Good luck.

thanks for the site julienoshoes, ive had a look and it looks wonderful. we are going to see if we can do this mondays meeting. ive hunted some of my eldest boys lego out from the attic, and dd, ds and me have had a brilliant afternoon playing with it. i'd forgot what good fun it is.
saracen, weve now decided to do no 'maths' work at all for a while, there is other ways we can do it without her realising. i should know by now after 18 months of home edding that we dont have to do it 'schooly' ways at all

mummette, I showed the site to my now 19 year old DD, she said
"That's so lovely.
When I was little, I'd have loved to have sorted out my Lego ready to sit with you and do this lesson in Lego!
it would have inspired me to do so much more!!"

Just noticed a a video by Alan Thomas talking about mentions learning maths autonomously. I really think this way may suit your daughter mummette-it did mine!

Thank you for posting that link Julie:) . I needed that at the moment.

just watched the video and feel an awful lot happier now , thankyou :)

i have dyscalculia (in a mild form) that was only diagnosed when i was in year 10 in senior school! id always struggled with numbers, and basic maths still takes me a long time using my fingers or a very drawn out pen and paper method e.g. 16+11= no idea.
my dad was horrifically pushy that i should learn my times tables and used to scream at me for hours about how stupid i was, even though i was excelling in all other subjects. most important thing is to not make it a scary thing that she cant do, she will get there eventually, slowley, and with a lot of patience from everyone!
showing confidence in her will also help, e.g. going to a shop and giving her 10p and asking her to find a 10p sweet to buy, she will make the connection between the sweet and the money, so when you give her 20p (eventually) she should be able to work out she could have two sweets!
hard hard work, but i got there and so will she!
im 20 now, and you learn your own little ways of doing things to get by! :)