Thinking of HE dd (7) with social phobia: not sure if it's a good idea?

[piedpiper4]

Bit of background. My dd (7) has social phobia and is selectively mute (although she is now speaking, but has reduced communication ie. will only offer yes/no answers, whispers etc when in public). She has made huge leaps and bounds and I am extremely proud of her.
However, because of her social phobia she struggles with social situations and especially going to school. This makes our every day life horrendous. She has enormous tantrums in the evening as she's worried about the next day, and the mornings are awful. Seeing her this scared as a mum is unimaginable and I worry what impact this will have on her in the long term.
I am thinking of HE, but I'm not sure if this is the right move as she is an only child and I'm concerned that the lack of socialisation may set her back again. Having said that I know there are other ways this can be dealt with: clubs, swimming, Browinies etc. I wonder if removing the stress of formal schooling and being at home will build her confidence?
If anyone has any experience with this and can offer any thoughts, I'd love to hear them please.

Many thanks

We home edded for 3 years and found, despite what people will say, that the social side is very hard work. Our children did need more than home ed could offer, even with brownies etc. Honestly, if you can make school work I would stick with it. Maybe you could part time school - lots of schools will allow this...

I forgot to say, one of the main reasons we went into full time school was because of the social element. Home edded children are sometimes very isolated. Again people will tell you otherwise and you can massively help with this. I'm going to stick my neck out and I know the home edders won't like me saying this, but while I was home edding I made a real effort to meet other home ed families, while all of them were very nice, they were also all a bit, um, unusual too. :)

Hi

Some people can manage anxiety-provoking situations in small doses but not full-on day after day. I know there's this idea that if it isn't hurting it isn't working, but sometimes it can just be hurting and not necessarily achieving anything positive except getting through another day.

Martin Seligmann has written some interesting stuff about building emotional resilience, which is worth looking up if you're not familiar with it.

Where abouts do you live piedpiper4?
Would it be worth finding out about the Home Ed scene locally, to put your mind at rest about what onefunkymama (and everyone else) says

I have children who were desperately unhappy in school, to the extent that they worried as you say your daughter is doing.
Slowly, in their own time, they joined in with more and more of the home ed crowd. The benefited so much as they were able to join in as much as they wanted and at their own pace, and eventually had a social life that far exceeded anything their schooled peers and cousins had.

My children are now fully integrated in their University level education and very happy, self confident adults.

My niece however sounds exactly like your daughter, and my sister kept her in school, rather than doing something so different as HE. School did my niece no favours what so ever-she is still reclusive, scared socially, still socially mute and withdrawn now as a grown up. School can be the loneliest place in the world if you don't fit in IMO, and it sounds as though your daughter most certainly does not.

Your daughter is only 7, would it be worth having a trial home ed year and join in with what ever she wants to do, find out about HE groups, as well as Brownies etc and see if there is a growth in her self confidence and happiness?

I think you'd be astonished at the change if you withdraw the main stress in her life.

The social side of H.E. hasn't worked out all that well for us either, and like OFM says this was despite a lot of work going to groups etc. Despite this however we have continued home ed. My children know they have school as an option any time they ask, and have been to school before we home ed(so they know what they're missing) but they would rather still not bother (which says a lot about how appealing the idea of school itself is.) I am the only one who gets really anxious about it. Strangely though, my children are always commended for their manners, their extensive vocabulary, their ability to speak confidently on a range of subjects and their good behaviour, so not having as much peer time hasn't prevented them from being able to socialise.

I have also noticed that my youngest no longer does that cow-towing to adults just because they are adults thing. He speaks to them on the same level, which, when he was in school he didn't do, because he perceived every adult as an authority figure.

I definately think you should try giving home ed a go. Forcing a child to a place that makes them frightened isn't worth it. If your child has to fight you (tantrums) to get their voice heard then something isn't right. After a while they may stop trying to tell you what's wrong. A lot of children end up doing this and parents just assume they're happy at school, when in fact the children have just learned that school is non-negotiable regardless of how they feel.

Also I will say from observation that the social side of H.E. is far easier with girls - there seemed to be lots of girls and maybe not so many boys around the ages of my children. So there is a strong possibility that socialisation will not be an issue for you.

One other thing that is a plus for home ed is that your daughter will have more control over when, how long, and who she chooses to socialise with. Perhaps at school she feels she has no control and this exaberates her anxiety more.

I would really recommend investigating what is around locally on your home ed scene. People have obviously had very different experiences. Where we are there is more social life than we can cope with, lots of lovely, very normal families, loads of boys ( more than girls), masses of activities. I think most local groups are very happy for you to visit them if you are thinking about doing it. In our groups there are quite a few children who have hated the social life of being at school, come out and are thriving socially.

One of the advantages of home ed is that you can support your child in making progress in social situations AT THEIR OWN PACE.

It might be that, at first, one playdate a month is more than enough for her stress levels. And then she'll be ready to play quietly in the park around other children. And then she'll meet some other nice ones through groups or trial playdates with other families (that's how I replenish our social scene whenever it gets too thin - we don't do HE groups at all at the moment because that wouldn't suit my children right now, but I use the local HE forum and email lists when we need to expand our social life).

Building social confidence from a place of security and trust has got to be a better idea than going on throwing a child into a situation in which, she is clearly telling you, she is sinking. IMO.

I was talking to someone recently who has a very shy child. They got in touch through a local email list with another family with a similarly-aged and very shy child. They met up. The shy children sat quietly with their mothers for TWO HOURS before they were brave enough to start talking and playing together. Now they are best friends and see each other a couple of times a week. What school has the staffing to nurture that sort of potential friendship?

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your responses, some interesting points raised. I have spoken to a local mum who's doing HE and I apparently there is a thriving HE network in this area.

(Apologies, I'm trying hard not to turn this thread into advice about social phobia, but as these two issues are so linked in this decision I'm struggling to seperate them).

One of the reasons I'm considering HE is because after more than 3 years at school dd's fears haven't diminished. As Fiona says, I'm aware of it becoming a case of 'getting through another day'. Also, as she's getting older, her problems are setting her apart from her peers more and so her fears are increasing. By HE'ing I would be able to eliminate this getting any more obvious, before it affects her self esteem even more.

Ommmward, dd has been having playdates with one particular friend for 3 years. When dd visits her home she (dd) will not speak to her all day, when friend visits here they are like long lost friends. As you say, no school in the country has the resources to overcome this level of fear and nurture this friendship.

I'm wondering if through HE I will be able to raise her innate confidence, and make life easier for her in the long run?

"I'm wondering if through HE I will be able to raise her innate confidence, and make life easier for her in the long run?"

... well, I think it's working, slowly, with several timid small people I know.

Where are you lilyfire? Unfortunately we're also struggling to make 'friends'. I have met lovely normal families but none that my boys have especially gelled with. However, I and they are loving almost every aspect of HE and one of the reasons is that the school social life was just too intense for all of us. Having an unhappy child is heartbreaking and only you know what's best for you both. I would also suggest giving HE a go as otherwise you'll never know. It took me 2 years to make the decision and I feel guilty now that I made my eldest suffer an alien environment for so long. Good luck, whatever you decide.

Piedpiper,

I've only just seen this and have only read your opening post, so apologies if I am covering old ground or saying something that has been rejected already etc.

But I had social phobia - it didn't manifest in not speaking but in all sorts of other ways. It was hell for me to go to school - really terrifying - and I begged my parents to take me out. Even a different school, boarding school, anywhere I'd feel like there was some control being handed back to me/them.

They refused to as they were afraid I would be 'not normal' unless I worked through my problems and stayed in the usual environment with other kids.

I never got better. Briefly I overcame it enough to stay at school until the sixth form but those years were almost all filled with loneliness, upset, huge anxiety and aversion to the things I ought to have been doing. Some allowances were made but there was a lot of disapproval and disappointment in me and in the end I dropped out as I couldn't cope.

I still have social phobia and I'm 38.
I often wonder what would have happened if my family had taken my wishes and acted on them instead of forcing me to go through a hell I could not bear.

If she is consistently unhappy going to school, let her not go. See how you get on. It might make a huge difference to her outcome, not saying it will, but it's got to be worth a try.

Good luck to both of you x

I meant to say, it began at about your daughter's age. I was scared to go to school from the off but I coped for a couple of years. Then we had a vile teacher (who eventually got sacked for bullying kids, or so I heard) and things spiralled downwards from there.

There was nothing for me at school, every day I felt dread and misery. I cried a lot and developed nervous habits to try and cope, but I felt like my life was so out of control, and my parents were not able/willing to protect me.

If they had just taken me and got down to my level and said, 'Look. You're unhappy, and I'm not putting you through this any more, I'm going to sort this out whatever it takes, Ok?' I would have felt way better.

I've no idea if this perspective helps or not, I hope it doesn't make you feel worse. She might be fine to go back after a while - she may want to. HE doesn't have to be permanent.

((((((((Jennifer))))))))))))

Thanks Ommmward.

The thing someone said about making social progress at her own pace is really true and relevant.

I remember a lot of pressure to 'be normal' because they didn't know what to do with me, I couldn't miss that much school, I'd have to overcome my fear and panic at some point. The pressure was huge.

If I'd been told it was alright, I could take it at my own pace, it wouldn't have made me stop trying. It would have boosted my confidence hugely just in the fact of being taken seriously, believed, calmed.

Schools often have no idea what to do with a child who doesn't conform - often you get treated as a rebel who is doing it on purpose.

Has her school suggested any measures to try and help your dd? Or aren't they interested? Mine did try a few things - a few of the teachers were lovely - but it didn't really help because all the time in the back of my mind was their sole intention of 'you must go to school, it's the law, and there is no way out of it'.

She will find that freedom increases as does her own sense of control as she gets a bit older, but that's hard to see when you're only 7! If she could become attached to a particular teacher or TA at school, would that help her? Someone she could go to and trust if she felt afraid.
I had a little room I could go to, for a while, whenever I felt panicky.

DS became selectively mute in his second year at school due to it being ... not a nice place to be. He did not have social phobia but had become extremely anxious - to the point of being assessed by an Ed Psych- and was showing many characteristics of ASD. I removed him to HE temporarily, as we were moving anyway and it seemed the best hope of 'mending' him before perhaps re-trying school in our new home.

HE was great. He loved it academically, he became 'himself' again when at home. He couldn't handle HE groups at all - too chaotic for him, he requires order and predictability. However we did have some smaller meet-ups with individual HE families locally and while he did not form friendships he did play happily (non-verbally) alongside the other children, particularly if they were older. He continued attending football club, swimming lessons and Cubs - lots of structured and organised action, very little speech.

After we moved, after several months of HE, DS entered a new school. He was by that time speaking more normally in the company of trusted adults but I genuinely expected him to stop again on re-entering school, though i did think that my HE 'mending' had hugely improved atters.

First day, he came flying out, grin all over his face, talking 19 to the dozen 'they do joined handwriting ALL THE TIME and they have THREE BREAKS and I'm in the best maths group and the boys are called x,y,and z and there are 12 boys and they are ALL MY FRIENDS'. Never looked back.

Several years on, I mentioned in the hearing of one of his friends that he didn't speak for a while 'What, 5 minutes?' 'No, about 6 months'. Friend literally couldn't stop laughing, thought that was the most ridiculous thing he had ever heard 'But he talks ALL THE TIME'.

A long way of saying - try HE, engineer quiet playdates, don't worry too much about the social side because it will become easier as your daughter is scared for less of every day, think of some 'non-verbal' group activities - sport is good, dance might be another option - where she could be involved but not have to speak. Don't view it as permanent, think of it as 'mending' your DD and getting her to a less anxious place and then you can plan for the next steps.

threesnocrowd - we are in SW London/ Surrey borders. We're quite lucky in that we can go down into Surrey where there's a fair amount going on and also access the groups/trips in South and Central London.

I think we would count as 'unusual', but our way of life no longer includes having a child talking about wanting to die each night. So I prefer how it is now.