Really want to keep HEing but in a difficult situation - ideas please!

[eestro]

Hello all, we started home ed this Sept (and have found this part of Mumsnet massively helpful while trying to make the decision, so thank you!). We did a trial run over the summer and it went really well. I have five children aged nine years to eighteen months so I used a structured plan and it was great!

However, since Sept things have been really tough. One of our children is seriously ill and me and my husband have spent most of the last two months swapping over in hospital to be with him. He's been ill for a while, which was one of our main reasons to choose HE - so we could all be together and adapt things to his pace - but we didn't anticipate such a lot of hospital time.

We have two pre-schoolers and two boys aged eight and nine at home, and the older two are doing well but both pretty 'head in the clouds' type personailities, so they need some structure to keep them going or they drift off into their own worlds.

We have no idea whether this is a bad patch and things will get better or if stuff will be like this for a while. I'm reluctant to send them back to school as I feel we haven't had a good shot at it yet and I had so many ideas of what I wanted to do with them.

So I thought I'd shout out first - how would you do it if you were me? If you were only with your kids half the week and needed to give them stuff to do with other people the rest of the time, and to give them goals to motivate them to help them focus? Any suggestions of physical or online resources? Would autonomous learning work if we weren't alongside them most of the time to help guide and cater to their learning? Or would you try and bring back more structure if you knew it had worked in the past?

I'm going to fess up and say I can't see what's so bad about being head in the clouds and drifting off into your own world. Do they get depressed or anxious or destructive in this situation? Could you look on it as a sort of junior Gap Year? It would be different if they were in their final exams year!

I have boys of about the same age (8 and 10). I think in the short term you can relax a bit - don't worry about letting them do their own thing for a lot of the time (especially while you have the family stress of serious illness).

They will find things to do that involve learning. Mine do a lot of lego, like to google things - everything from lighthouses, to holiday cottages, an obsession with Titanic recently, to the solar system. Something catches their attention and they wander off on a random walk finding out things as they go.

We also watch a lot of documentaries - eg inside natures giants, coast, - pretty much all the decent stuff on BBC4 and some from channel 4. They learn a huge amount from that.

They read as they go, writing is coming along as they decide to make notes of what interests them.

Maths comes in - with things like scaling up their model cars to real life size for example.

Focus is a problem only when they are doing something that doesn't grab them (I have one in particular who drifts off very rapidly). Let them guide it a bit more and you don't get the focus problem.

I think what bothers me is I see a big change in their attitudes if they're left to their own devices too much. They both retreat into fantasy worlds - eg, Harry Potter or any computer game they can get their hands on. They then struggle with motivation to do anything else, and I mean the basics, like holding a conversation with someone! They are grumpy and listless and they also get under each other's skin a lot and have clashed quite a bit recently, so I like being able to give them tasks to do separately which gives them a break from each other. DS3 (8yo) has slight autism so it's taken us a long time to help him to communicate well with others is I don't want him to slip back into his previous non-communicative state.

Ironically, DS2 (also 8) who is the ill one, has always been the one most motivated to learn naturally. Left to his own devices he would be making great progress but can't do much ATM due to his condition! So I can see how truly autonomous learning can work with some children, but I feel like DS1 & DS2 need a bit more guidance.

Also - for autonomous learning, do you set specific limits on TV and computer time? The three families I know in person who are HEing don't have 'normal' TV - they just use DVDs or occasionally watch things online so it's not an issue for them. When they're online, do you monitor what they're using? Mine always go straight to Lego or CN games and would play them for hours on end given the choice!

And hi Throck, I remember you from the 'D'y ever wonder?' threads back in the early days - think your DTs are a similar age to mine!

I would limit playing on a computer (eg games) - although mine don't really like doing those anyway (must be the only kids in the UK who don't !). We do have to limit watching youtube stuff they find on their googling travels.

Allow any other use of the computer within reason. We often end up resorting to googling to find out about something that came up in conversation - from icebergs to how many seats the local theatre has. It is doing wonders for their spelling .

TV - again we limit the purely entertainment stuff - they get to watch top gear for example but not all day (which they would love to do - at least for one day!).
We rarely watch live tv - much more recorded stuff that we think might be of interest. I scan the listings every few days and nab anything that looks useful - be it history, science, whatever.

We are semi autonomous - in that we don't follow a daily structure - but we do guide activity to some extent - in that we introduce topics, or sit down with them more formally for things like English, maths, languages etc.

mine also do a lot of outside stuff - lots of physical exercise on the trampoline, bikes etc. They are less inclined to argue then - although they do fight over who gets which bike etc.

I like the sound of what you're doing, Throck. That sounds like how I wanted to do it and was really excited about exploring the different possibilities. I wanted to pick a different theme every few weeks and do loads of stuff around it, and have some self-led time, but also help them to be disciplined when it came to do doing stuff they didn't always 'feel' like doing cos I think we all sometimes need pushing beyond our comfort zone in order to learn new things about ourselves.

A couple of people in the professional fields who have come to see what our extra needs are with DS2 have obviously been shocked to see we're homeschooling too and hinted that we are making life hard work for ourselves and should just send them back for a bit! Some days I feel like doing that (when we're all at the end of our tethers and they've caught the brunt of my anxiety) but most of the time I want to give it longer and see if it can work like I thought it would - the way that you guys on here often describe it which sounds fab! Rather than gently finding my way with it, I'm feeling like I need to be confidently asserting that everything's in hand in order to prove to people that we're not crazy or neglectful parents!

Any advice on websites they can dip into every day for maths and English? I did get loads of info from other Mumsnet HE threads over the summer but then my laptop went and died and took all my research with it :(

Am going to go now and do some BBC4 research!

Thankyou!

We go for semi-structured too, for the exact reasons you said about grumpiness/clashing etc if left to their own devices.
I use Galore Park "So you want to Learn..." books for my oldest (9). He is able to do these pretty much independently while I work with his little brother, might be worth considering.

Education City is probably worth looking at too, you can usually extend their free trial several times.
I recently signed up to stories from the web with a voucher from Likebees not had much of a chance to explore but looks good.
We do about 1 1/2 hours of the workbooks 3 days a week, followed by piano practice and 3/4 hr of French/Latin/Geography and then I read to them for 3/4hr (usually something tied in to a topic i.e. we're working through a big book of Greek myths at the moment).
Rest of the time we fill with cooking, cleaning (they help with both), visiting friends, project work, playing outside, crafts, watching documentaries, museums...
I do have limits on tv and computer during the week, more what they do than how much. In the day it only tends to be documentaries and 'educational' games. Their strategy computer games (which I know are educational too but take ages!) are saved for weekends.

I will try and remember to dig out some of the sites I have bookmarked on my home pc and post them here later today or tomorrow.

just a few that I have noted along the way - in no particular order I haven't used all of these - they are just ones I have found and mailed myself about (helps me get them onto my home pc !).

www.explainthatstuff.com/howcombineharvesterswork.html

www.channel4.com/learning/main/primary/keystage2.htm (haven't used this - just made a note of it's existance !).

www.enchantedlearning.com/Home.html

www.chem4kids.com/

www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/

education.usgs.gov/

storybird.com/

mapzone.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/mapzone/giszone.html

www.jbrowley.com/Acrostic%20sentences.pdf

www.atantot-extra.co.uk/

www.tutpup.com/

thehappyscientist.com/

www.alluc.org/documentaries.html

www.typing-lessons.org/lesson_1.html

www.phonicsinternational.com/unit1_pdfs/DH%20Alph%20Code%20overview%20with%20teaching%20points%20-%20A4x7.pdf

www.saintambrosebarlow.wigan.sch.uk/Year4spellingpage.htm

www.bifroest.demon.co.uk/misc/homophones-list.html

enough for now - there are others I actually use more but they are not bookmarked on this pc.

Only since September? The home ed wisdom says a child needs a month for every year in school, to get it out of their system, IMO, it takes some children longer-and parents much longer still!
My guess is they are still in the deschooling phase...........especially as they are in the middle of a period of turbulence within your family, because of the illness.

I think offering all of the things that throckenholt suggests is good, but don't be altogether surprised that they choose to do some comfort stuff-the Harry Potter games etc.

I think if I were you, I'd be inclined to have a family meeting if you can manage it, including your elder two in making choices you can all live with.
I'd be explaining why I felt the need for more structure/organisation because I couldn't be there to facilitate their education as I would normally be.

and be kind to yourselves, ignore the professionals for now-they know nothing about HE, or how education happens everywhere and not just when children are taught.

Thankyou all. I think I need to stick with my instincts and keep to the boundaries (and get DH to stick to them to too when I'm not there!) by keeping certain things for evenings and weekends like itsstillgood, while offering them lots of opportunities to get into more constructive things during the day. That list is really helpful, Throck - I will introduce those websites gradually as we go along so they learn how to use their computer time constructively.

I like the family meeting time too. We do it occasionally anyway, so maybe we can chat about how we're going to do things differently for a while and draw up some boundaries together.

I want to find a few projects they can keep working on without me, like the comic maker sets you can get. Stuff that can't be too dangerous or easily destroyed by the little people in the house!

julienoshoes, seeing as you popped in... I wanted to say how much I value your input on all the Home Ed threads. I think the biggest question on every parent who considers HE is 'but how will they turn out as a result of it?' Hearing the stories of your brood is so inspiring and reassuring, so thanks for bringing your experience to all of us who are in the early stages.

Accolade over

Hi, my kids are 11, 9 and almost 8. The children all have a joint disorder, plus the youngest has a speech disorder and is severely short-sighted. We spend an awful lot of time at and going to and from hospital appointments with them.....sometimes I think we ought to book a room and stay there!! Some weeks we are at hospital or clinic on three days. I have had to relax about the amount of time we spend out of the house and away from formal education. Also, they sleep badly due to joint pain, so if they sleep in, they sleep in.....I let them catch up with sleep when they can instead of getting them up early to do the 9-3 school hours! One way we get around this is having projects 'on the go' that we can dip in and out of. I print worksheets (or make my own) on whatever subject is required, we Google and read up in books. And we are always talking. In the car on the way to appointments we have really lovely, interesting conversations. We watch documentaries as well as The Simpson's, etc. and they play an assortment of computer games as well as lots of time in the park, dog walking, garden, playing with friends, reading, drawing, ebaying! etc. And they all love work books, which they use in the car as well as at home. Sometimes doing just one page, sometimes 6 pages. DD1 loves to trace our journey on Google earth, pin-pointing and reading about landscapes we've just seen. DS loves to potter, often doesn't seem to be learning anything much, until you question him, and it turns out he has absorbed loads but doesn't want to put it on paper.....but then he is the worst affected with his joints and has a lot of health things going on, so I am not really worried as I know he IS learning.
I sometimes think 'we haven't actually done much today', but when I add up everything we've done in the whole week, it is always loads more than I remembered!!

some more you might find useful

www.cimt.plymouth.ac.uk/projects/mep/default.htm

www.languagesonline.org.uk/

www.mathsisfun.com/

www.primaryresources.co.uk/english/english.htm

www.worksheetgenius.com/html/english_worksheets.php

eestro Thank you!
I know how much I relied on my more experienced HE friends, in the early days, when I was scared-and when I needed advice.
Then suddenly one day we were at a local meeting and there seemed to be a whole pile of people wanting to talk to me-it seemed that overnight I was the person seen as 'experienced' and able to offer thoughts on HE.

So I'm sure one day down the line, you may well be the one telling other newbies how well your children and their friends have done!

Well Done You -the only suggestion I could make having read this thread is that you mention half the week the children are with someone else while your at hospital. Am wondering if on these days the person with them could take them out for trips ?
If I had the responsibility of HE four children for 2+ days a week I think I'd find it enjoyable (and easier) to pack them in the car with a pic-nic and visit any and everything in a 20mile radius - maybe oldest child could have a little budget and long list of places (opening times etc) and be involved in money management and planning, if you have a printer older children can print-off worksheets from site venues in advance etc.

Thanks all. Rosemary, that has been one advantage to it - the other four did spend most of September outdoors while DS2 was in Manchester so that was good. He's home more now, and we don't have a garden for the others to run about in, so they are missing that side of things, although DH has started taking DS1 out for him on his runs and he has surprised us all by really liking it!

Have decided to divide the day up into Learning and Skills zone in the morning, where they have chunks of time reading, writing, going on the above websites, doing workbooks and/or practical things like cooking, sewing, building, etc, then in the afternoon having an Imagination zone - where they can be absorbed in their current obsession but in lots of ways, like reading, writing stories, scripting plays, storyboards, voice recording, videoing, etc. Then at the end of the day, before tea but after chores (so I can dangle it like a carrot in front of them ) will be Golden Time when they can choose to go on the Wii, computer, iPhone, etc.

I like this idea although it would take me a while to make all the cards, I can really seeing it working for my boys. I'm struggling to get them to work independently (everybody seems to NEED me every hour of the day at the moment) so seeing what they are supposed to do and seeing their own progress would be a good thing.

sounds good. I would just not call the wii etc time Golden Time - that makes it sound like it is some special reward for doing all the other stuff. The whole afternoon should be them doing stuff they really enjoy - so maybe you could pitch this as brain switchoff time - downtime or some such.