Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Home ed

Find advice from other parents on our Homeschool forum. You may also find our round up of the best online learning resources useful.

Family concerns

57 replies

MrsKrbnr · 28/07/2011 09:25

Still on my quest to persuade DH to HE. HesFes was not resounding success in that regard (although fun) but kick started more conversations which is good.

I have a question to ask of you all. (Actually I have tons but I try and restrict myself) My MIL and FIL have their concerns about HE but are reasonably open-minded and really quite lovely people. My brother-in-law however is vehemently against the whole idea - even though it is none of his business and he is entirely ignorant of any educational theory beyond the fact his girlfriend's sister is doing a PGCE - and has sent a text to DH stating his opinion that it is all about me not the girls. Am pretty peeved in quite a few different ways.

Has anyone else had this charge (as it feels) levelled against them, and if so what did you say in response? I am torn between rising above and ignoring it and replying to his erroneous concerns.

Thanks Smile

OP posts:
seeker · 31/07/2011 07:30

But the only people on this thread who are getting "hot under the collar" are people who question the need to question one's motives!

exoticfruits · 31/07/2011 07:38

I would have thought it was unhealthy not to question your own motives.
I never understand why people are so defensive and why they always, always, always have to justify and explain. Just make some bland comment and change the subject.

dearth · 31/07/2011 15:07

Home educators are asked to question their 'motives' because home educators are not trusted. Plain and simple. We are aberrant and suspect.

By the way, let's please not pretend for one second that parents sending their children to school are not doing so for ideological reasons.

What school do they choose? Religious? Ideology. State? The National Curriculum is blatant ideology - social and economic engineering - that changes with every government. Private? What type? Montessori, Steiner? Classical? Military? Liberal Arts? Lots of sport? Lots of maths and science? Ideology, ideology, ideology.

The entire history of organised schooling is of particular groups (starting with the church) using a so-called children's rights agenda to further an political and/or moral one. Missionaries.

Yet when parents choose educate at home for ideological reasons, we are asked to question ourselves. The implication being that we might be to self-obsessed or political to realise we are harming our children. More self-obsessed or political than your average parent who doesn't think twice about sending their child to school because it has become so common to do so that it seems beyond question. Well, maybe school educating families should question themselves. Is it really hard to understand how the double standard is offensive? Perhaps you do not realise how often we are asked to examine our motives, in the same breath we are warned about the harm we might do to our children. (Clue - it's almost as often as we are told how 'brave' we are Confused ). Why should my choice be any more suspect than any other parent's? Compassion, trust, and respect would be nice.

Imagine hearing this on a near daily basis:

Warning! School may harm your child! Please question your motives! Are you SURE you've made the right decision? Did your child CHOOSE to be educated in this way, under this government? Did you consult your child before voting in the last election? After all her future is at stake! Are you making a political statement, or are you being totally sheep-like and unthinking? Or are you just doing it so you can seek personal fulfilment in employment, or as a source of narcissistic supply, or to avoid totally engaging as a parent? Are you forcing your children into premature independence? Surely it's not working if they are complaining about the teacher/friend stuff/their homework. Have you stopped to consider you might be totally fucking them up?!

Re the apparently narcissistic/needy home educating woman, I can't comment. Maybe you're right, maybe you're prejudiced. I would have to know someone really well to make a judgement about her motives.

The fact is many, many of us are accused of using home ed to satisfy our own unmet needs/further an agenda/insert another insult. As a matter of fact - we simply love our children and choose what we think is best for them. Just like everybody else.

Choosing to home educate is not, in fact, a form of Munchausen's by Proxy.

Grin

Instead of asking people to question their motives, perhaps we can agree that it's extremely beneficial for everyone to weigh up the pros and cons of every decision we make for our unique families.

seeker · 31/07/2011 15:25

"
"Re the apparently narcissistic/needy home educating woman, I can't comment. Maybe you're right, maybe you're prejudiced. I would have to know someone really well to make a judgement about her motives."

I agree. That's why I didn't want to discuss her any further. I do know her very well indeed, and feel secure in my analysis.

"Instead of asking people to question their motives, perhaps we can agree that it's extremely beneficial for everyone to weigh up the pros and cons of every decision we make for our unique families."

And this differs from what I've been saying exactly how?

dearth · 31/07/2011 15:37

My posts haven't been (entirely) directed at you Seeker. The thread has raised issues about which I feel strongly, so I took the liberty of addressing them - it seemed appropriate.

I did however wish to respond to this comment specifically:

'And I really don, see why it' insulting to suggest that you should question your motives before taking any decision. Especially one which has such a significant impact on the lives of other people who are often not in a position to make an informed decision themselves.'

LastSummer · 31/07/2011 15:38

Dearth,

The boom in home schooling in the U.S. is driven by parents who want their children to believe that the world was created by an old man with flowing robes and a long white beard: www.dumb.com/god/images/god.jpg
I know it's often irksome, but I think it natural for others to be suspicious of our motives as home educators. After all, we're doing something quite extraordinary. And we should examine those motives because the decision to home school has such huge impact on our kids. We need to be sure that we're acting in their best interest and not to further a personal agenda like, well, rage against the machine. . .

seeker · 31/07/2011 15:44

"
I did however wish to respond to this comment specifically:

'And I really don, see why it' insulting to suggest that you should question your motives before taking any decision. Especially one which has such a significant impact on the lives of other people who are often not in a position to make an informed decision themselves.'

Well, respond to it then! Did you miss the word "any"?

dearth · 31/07/2011 15:49

It's only natural for people to be suspicious because people have forgotten that the State is now a stand-in for the flowing robes dude.

Rage against the machine is a perfectly reasonable reason to home educate, by the way.

The machine sucks, IMO. I don't want my children in it. Emphasis on 'my.'

I think what irks me, may be the word 'motive.' Surely 'reason' is, erm, more reasonable?

'Be clear about your reasons' is very sound advice IMO. It helps you figure out exactly whether home ed will be beneficial to your children/family/you - AND it will help you design the sort of home education that will be most beneficial to your unique child. Radical autonomous appeals to me intellectually but it doesn't work for my child. So we are more structured.

'Examine your motives' is a different kind of instruction - and does not automatically thinking about the specific needs of the specific child.

Or something Wink

I prefer to assume that almost all parents act in what they genuinely believe to be the best interests of their children.

exoticfruits · 31/07/2011 15:53

I did specifically say that I wasn't talking about education when I said that all parents should question their motives. I think it unhealthy not to question yourself-the alternative is quite frightening as in 'I am right'. I don't think that I could ever be sure-and I don't think that it is desirable. On hindsight there are quite a few things that I would have done differently, but then no one is perfect.

dearth · 31/07/2011 15:55

Seeker, do stand down please. If you did not exist, had never made any comment whatsoever, I would be ranting this same rant to anyone who would listen.

This is the home education section. And you did say:

'Especially one which has such a significant impact on the lives of other people who are often not in a position to make an informed decision themselves.'

So, it seemed to me you were saying that home educators should take special care to examine our motives, above and beyond the ordinary care that is taken by all parents.

Sorry if I've misunderstood you. As I have explained, I'm not really responding to you.

dearth · 31/07/2011 16:05

Exotic, I think we agree about everything but the word 'motive.'

One of the reasons I love home educating is that we can continuously assess and refine the way we do things - when mistakes are made, we learn and change. I can respond to my children's ever evolving interests and needs immediately. I don't think schools can do that. Schools are based on 'I am right.' 'I' being the state, the NC. This is the basis of my 'rage against the machine.'

exoticfruits · 31/07/2011 16:15

motive is perhaps the wrong word-I'm not sure of the right one but it is good to question your way of doing things. We all differ you see-I wouldn't see it as necessarily a good thing to respond to evolving interests and needs immediately-I see a lot of value of sticking at things you might not like and seeing them through. I find that things that I expect to be dull and boring turn out to be the opposite.
I don't want to get into an argument on schools v HE. Both have their good points.
I think that parents should be open minded and flexible.
My main point is there is absolutely no need to feel that you have to respond to other people questioning your way of doing things.

dearth · 31/07/2011 16:33

Exotic, again we agree. There is huge value in sticking with things and seeing them through - unless the decision to do so is made thoughtlessly, or arbitrarily. If sticking with something can lead to something greater - including better concentration and patience, then great. If sticking with something is the result of a catch-all policy or power struggle and will not achieve anything in the end - then forget it.

I have no desire to start a school v home ed debate. Home ed is simply one option available to children in the UK. Different strokes etc.

Sadly there is a need for home educators to feel we have to respond to other people questioning our ways of doing things. We narrowly missed having our freedom to home educate severely curtailed by the last government, and we are aware that we may no longer take that freedom for granted going forward. We may need the support of non-home-educating voters so it's crucial to us that myths about home education are busted.

Becaroooo · 31/07/2011 16:38

I feel that when I HE'd I lost "friends" because of it.....they took my decision regarding my son as a comment on their parenting choices.

Sad, but I'm over it Grin

Ds1 is now back in the state education system but if we have any more issues in the future then HE it will be again!

Why wasnt HESFES a success?????

seeker · 31/07/2011 16:45

Dearth, I was outraged because you seemed to be assuming that I was applying different standards tonhome educators to those that I apply to anyone else. This seems to happen a lot. Any suggestion that HE ever even slightlynless than a perfect solution,Or a HE parent is anythiong less than perfect produces a torrent of "how very dare you".

You weren't even prepared to take my word about a person that I know and see nearly every day!

dearth · 31/07/2011 16:45

Exotic, can I also add that there are many home educators who use structured curricula and do not deviate. Some even do uniforms Grin Again, the beauty is that it's bespoke. I see our own situation as a negotiation - almost all of the time, everyone's needs are met.

exoticfruits · 31/07/2011 17:15

You don't have to justify it to me dearth! All it is is another choice in education. I could go into my reasons for choosing school, but it isn't relevant. We are all different. I wouldn't even try to give reasons.I doubt that you will convince anyone other than by making a good job of it-'the proof is in the pudding' Smile

dearth · 31/07/2011 17:45

Seeker, I'm sorry. Perhaps it was a bit like reading a thread in Feminism in which someone says 'I really do know a woman who fabricated a rape story to get revenge on a man.'

'This seems to happen a lot. Any suggestion that HE ever even slightlynless than a perfect solution,Or a HE parent is anythiong less than perfect produces a torrent of "how very dare you".'

A lot of HEers are sensitive and defensive because we take a lot of criticism and at times it can feel like it's coming from all sides.

dearth · 31/07/2011 17:46

True re proof!

seeker · 31/07/2011 19:15

Yeah. Well, attacking your supporters and putting words in their mouths doesn't help. And refusing to accept that all he ers are not perfect doesn't help either.

dearth · 31/07/2011 20:29

Seeker, I haven't attacked you. I have asked you questions, you have replied, I have apologised for any misunderstanding. I have also explained that I have not really been addressing you on this thread, but rather the damaging myth - the accusation made so frequently by so many others - that home educators are meeting our own needs to the detriment of our children. Therefore I have not put words in your mouth, but 'replied' to words most HEers have heard many times.

At no time have I implied that all HEers are perfect.

And I've never met another home edder who thinks that. We can be quite bitchy about each other actually Grin - but we support each other's rights - and of course the rights of our children who deserve their personalised educations.

dearth · 31/07/2011 20:37

FWIW, re attacking your supporters...

I support the rights of people I LOATHE, and who loathe me.

I don't care whether they're assholes or not.

You either want to live in a tolerant, liberal, free-thinking society - or not. If you want to, you have to support things like home ed - even by misguided fanatics. Otherwise, someday, the precedents you help set by allowing government intrusion into the family life of others may come knocking on your own door.

Jamillalliamilli · 01/08/2011 12:06

Wow, sorry if my mention of knowing someone who worries me added to anyone feeling defensive, but stereotypes emerge through extremes existing, however overplayed they are.

Dearth, I can understand you find it to be just a damaging myth without basis if you?ve never met anyone like this, but sadly I have. I don?t believe acknowledging that is damaging to h/e, but do believe ignoring it is. If it helps, I know several children who are sent to the school system entirely to meet parental needs, even though it?s clearly not in their children?s best interests, educationally or socially, and I?ve already admitted to having been one.

The children of the mum I referred to, are increasingly unhappy and prevented from learning much. They want consistent friendships and a more academic provision than is encouraged, allowed, or felt needed, regardless of how it?s provided. Mum wants temporary ?playdates? and them to be at a far younger more dependant stage than they are, and restrict their interests to hers. Their futures have been pre decided, and are focussed around not having reasons to leave home. She?s no life outside them, nor desire for one and expects their adulthood to change little. They?ve had first schools, then ?academically focused? h/e, then autonomous h/e, systematically sabotaged. It isn?t a normal h/e situation, imo.
There?s a great deal more, but it comes down to everything that isn?t direct and only from her, is disrupted, shrunk and destroyed, because of her unusual feelings about all things. That?s why I believe h/e?s being used to benefit her needs, rather than the children?s, just as her actions and reactions at their schools were all about her, not their happiness or success. If she can?t continue what she?s doing here, she intends going abroad. This is one family out of over 100 I know, that I find myself judgemental about.

The vast majority of elective H/edders I know are fabulous, and generally both parents and kids are having a ball, and developing well doing what they?re doing, in a variety of ways, and I wish I?d known about h/e earlier because we?d definitely have had a great deal of fun, but we came to it late carrying baggage and ran with what we had. I hope I don?t come over as being a martyr. I love what my son?s doing, and am very proud of him, but it is very difficult for us, so apologies if I do. (my G/children are now being electively h/e, so it can?t be that bad. )
I put my hands up to not being aware that h/e was ?known as not allowed to be fun? and that it ?s ?an old chestnut?, I honestly didn?t know that, but can see it could be, once said.

Just for the record: from my perspective happy elective home edders are the life blood that help the ?backfooted? develop and I?m very grateful as well as inspired by those who made the choice positively, and enjoying life and childhoods, has to be one of the most positive reasons ever.

Now my son?s finally doing well, the constant question is: ?oh he?s doing really well, when?s he going back to school?? It?s funny and very telling, and yes, the response goes down badly. Now we?re doing A levels, mature wise h/e folk are shaking their heads too. I?m listening carefully and taking on board their experience and knowledge, but will do whatever we reckon is in his best interests.

I?d suggest one good reason why particularly examine our motives/reasons when deciding to h/e or not, (and to what level) is because most of us are going to come up against constant assumptions and criticisms, and sometimes others who worry us, and self awareness allows us to h/e happily and confidently in that atmosphere, and hopefully change it.

Jamillalliamilli · 01/08/2011 12:12

parents who could afford to send their children to the 'best' independent schools, but instead send them to the local comp on special measures, are applauded for their integrity, for their selfless sacrifice to the collective

Err, not by me or anyone I know.

exoticfruits · 01/08/2011 13:59

parents who could afford to send their children to the 'best' independent schools, but instead send them to the local comp on special measures, are applauded for their integrity, for their selfless sacrifice to the collective

I missed that one completely.Hmm
Not by anyone that I know either!