A rather depressing juxtaposition

[FreudianSlipOnACrown]

I've been reading Guerrilla Learning by Llewellyn and Silver, as it was recommended on this board. I'm really enjoying it.

It's reminded me though of the reasons why DH and I have toyed with the idea of HEing our DCs (3 and 1). Even though the book itself is not a "you must homeschool" type thing at all, it's more about making the most of your DCs' natural drive for learning no matter what type of schooling they have.

But I was reading it while DH was doing science revision with his 13yo and it was just such a stark contrast! Trying to help her learn all these tiny snippets of information, her telling DH "oh that won't be in the test so I don't need to know it", the fact that it didn't all come together in one big 'picture' it's just a list of things she has to regurgitate on demand. She doesn't even need to understand it.

Ugh. Sorry, I'm just thinking aloud really. Would welcome any thoughts on this, at least I know you experienced HEors will know what I am waffling about :)

I'm a teacher, I love my job and I try to do the big picture thing.....but the way education systems are structured, it's bloomin' difficult! If there was legal provision for HE where I live (it's actually illegal here, but that's another, deeply ironic story...) I wouldn't think twice about teaching my own children myself. It's a basic human right to educate your own child - and there were no schools in ancient Athens, yet it produced philosophers, writers, artists, doctors, thinkers and politicians and scientists whose work is still relevant today.

That's the thing mighty - a lot of the time individual teachers get the blame but IMO it's a much wider problem - your hands are tied by bureaucracy aren't they? Not to mention SATs etc in England...

Ironically I'm actually doing a degree ATM with a view to becoming a primary teacher. But I'm starting to wonder if I could handle it TBH. I'm not sure I could stomach my own hypocrisy of wanting a completely different education for my own DCs from the education I would be providing for my students according to government targets.

I just don't know what to do :(

I feel SO sorry for teachers (some of my closest friends are teachers) because they get SO much flak for doing what the authorities say they have to!

I use a lot of resources from the TES teaching resources website and find that I have a five page document justifying a paragraph of actual work, the poor teachers have to put in learning outcomes and mission statements and reference it to the national curriculum etc etc etc

I think it would be a lot better if we just allowed teachers to teach!

i'll get off my soapbox now, sorry

I only know one teacher as a friend - she's been teaching reception. But she's not got all disillusioned. She's very much into grades and achievements and pressure, it is so endemic in her family. I feel a bit sorry for her little pupils tbh!

There were schools in Athens. They were small, private and expensive and there was no state funded schooling but I'm willing to bet that most of those philosophers/writers etc were the rich who did go to school.

Before I started HE I was studying to be a Primary Teacher too. I was warned not to by 3 primary teachers (!) one of whom said she felt she hadn't actually taught any children since she left Sweden due to all the paperwork assessment and prep she had to do. She told me to go ahead and homeschool and told DS he was an extremely lucky boy! Another warned me that if I wanted to teach I would be better of specialising in a subject and teaching at secondary level as I would have a little more flexibility and autonomy. She actually said 'You are mad. I have five year olds in my class that are bored and want to play outside in the park and instead I have to make sure they reach their literacy targets because they'll be doing sats next year even though they're just babies.'

I don't believe that it's all that grim though. I have worked in schools and seen some very happy children, as well as children for whom home life made school (and school meals) look like bliss, and DS had a couple of excellent primary teachers, but I think I realised that I would quickly become too disillusioned to teach primary in a mainstream school with the silly government targets: as if a one size fits all education could EVER fulfill the needs of EVERY child in the country. The very idea is silly. It's a silly target to try and reach. In my opinion schools should do less but better and offer some flexibility: - early morning to early afternoon or vice versa schooling. Part time schooling. Correspondance schooling. Allow secondary students to choose to only go in for certain subjects in any of the schools in their borough for example. Instead of just one.

I'm probably being a bit utopian, but do think exciting changes are coming about within the educational field though, albeit slowly, and some free schools are making it exciting to teach again. So I may go ahead and do it in the future. Or else work as a governess!

Can you say more about why primary teaching appeals to you? Perhaps you can find a career in a related field which is less restrictive? The TES message boards might be helpful if you want to explore alternatives.

I can't help thinking that if you are already questioning whether primary teaching will be fulfilling for you, then there's a good chance it won't.

Indeed, Saracen. I am currently on a degree called 'mathematics and its learning' - it's great but I'm considering changing (easily done as it is an OU degree) to normal maths/statistics as that'll keep my options open more.

Basically the reason I want to be a primary teacher is because of my passion for maths. I've heard a lot about the fact that a lot of primary teachers only need C at GCSE maths and that maths teaching really suffers. I was hoping to make a difference - and in the long run move from class teacher to a sort of supervisory role, like a 'head of maths' ensuring maths standards were high across the whole school. Or maybe 'troubleshooting' for lots of different schools.

But I'm worrying that I'll be so tied down by standards and rules that I won't be able to make maths fun anyway, in the long term at least. And in any case the focus is mostly on arithmetic, which is different from the wider field of mathematical thinking. SATs compounds this problem IMHO, and I've already found myself thinking that I couldn't cope with teaching year 6 because I would find it too difficult on principle.

Thank you Saracen for asking such a simple but pertinent question :) this crisis of confidence coupled with some disastrous happenings at home (I've got a couple of threads going on chat and AIBU) has meant I feel like I'm at a 'crossroads' and it's good to write it all down.

Freudian - do you think your dd has learned anything about the science that she has been doing? I know some of my children learned lots about how things work from doing science at school and enjoyed it. as regards the "oh that won't be in the test so I don't need to know it", while some might think it less than ideal, she is also learning a skill separate from science - the skill of 'passing the exam' which is useful in itself.

Imo Freudian, it has been the enthusiastic teachers who love their subject that made a difference to my children who were at school. There are teachers who can bring a subject alive. If you could take that inspiration into a school and inspire only a small percent of your students then would you feel that worthwhile? Looking at it from a wider perspective (knowing about HE, being aware of Guerilla Learning) perhaps you could adapt your style of teaching to incorporate different aspects of these things which might prove beneficial.
I've no experience of teaching in a classroom so if I'm talking rubbish please ignore :).

There are some bits of some subjects where you can't get the big picture until you've learnt a lot of little bits. E.g. Physics teacher's tell me it doesn't mesh as a subject ntil A'level; up to then it seems to be lots of little subjects thrown together (light, forces, electricity, space etc.).
I would also caution a 13 year old that although something might not be in the test, if she doesn't get it then she might find her GCSEs harder. There is a lot of repetitition in schools to enable everyone to "get it" at some point, hopefully.

The 13 year old has though learnt one very useful skill, to focus on the important stuff when time is limited.

I do agree about the learning to focus on essentials being a good skill. After all that is presumably what HEors do when it's time to get a few GCSEs under their belt (and they do it so much more efficiently!) But in my DSD's case it is ALL they learn. She actually loves science but the joy is being sucked out of it by her school. If she asks something in class she is told to be quiet because it is not on the syllabus. It is the same in all subjects there. They are only 13 FFS why is it all about exams already? She should get praised for thinking beyond the syllabus, but instead she gets ignored or reprimanded. ExW (her mum who the DSDs live with) won't let them move schools but that's a whole other thread.

I agree that subjects often don't 'come together' until late, I think that's part of the problem I have with the NC and one of the main reasons I am very pro-HE.

Finding out about alternatives to regular teaching is a good idea. Are laypeople allowed to join the TES forum?

I guess my dream would be to teach in my own way but I'd have to be pretty lucky to find a school that was willing to take big risks. I'd have to get a lot of years experience, years of playing by the rules, under my belt before being allowed to make changes. I'm not sure I could stick it out for that long before the disillusion kicks in and I give up like many teachers do (so I hear)

I guess a way to sum up the dilemma is: do I spend years focusing on my career, trying to make a difference to loads of children, when there's a risk that in doing so I may massively compromise the education DH and I imagine for our own DCs? Or do I say "sod everything else, I just want to give my DCs the best start I possibly can - and we only get one shot at it", get a simple job that pays the bills and take life as simply and enjoyably as possible?

Does it make a difference that I'm only 24? I'll have some time ahead once my DCs are grown up.

Sorry for the massive waffle...

I think the NC is very stifling - together with all the assessment admin. It sucks the creativity out of a lot of teachers.

You dd seems to be suffering from teachers who can't cope with any more that the NC and the crap loaded on them. They should be goign beyond the NC - adding to rather than being limited by it. But I get the impression many teachers just don't have the energy and imagination and stamina to do that.

Maybe you can manage that in your mid 20s, and have time to hope someone will see sense in the education departments in govenrment. It needs people with enthusiasm. I personally couldn't face it though.

And I thought the Greek education system had teachers in a stranglehold. It sounds like the problems are the same everywhere. Freudian - it is exhausting giving your all, day after day, trying to be creative, trying to make a difference, and at least here, we don't have NC, or admin, just set books that can't possibly meet the needs of every single teacher and every single pupil in every single school. And it is difficult to give as much to your own children as you do to your pupils, but it's only by being in the system, and kicking against it, that I've slowly started to form some idea of what I want for my DC. What I mean is that without having been in a classroom, or without having had to think up effective, entertaining ways to facilitate learning in a class of 30 nine year olds, my own views would never have been brought in to sharp focus. HEing your children doesn't (and maybe shouldn't) just mean devoting all your time and energy to them and them alone.

for me, HE means that I can devote all my time and energy to my daughter's education :)