I'm feeling a bit out of my depth. I want to give my daughter with SEN's some structure but don't know where to start!

[mummyloveslucy]

Hi, my 6 year old daughter has been home educated since Christmas. We have joined some groups and we are enjoying having more time with her. I work nights and my DH is self employed and has 2-3 days off during the week. Not necesarily weekends.

I'm finding it very hard to know what to do with her when we're at home though. If it was up to her it'd just be DVD's all day. That's all she ever wants to do. She's an only child, so I have to act as her play mate a lot of the time which can be very draining.

She likes structure and likes doing school type things with me, weather it's writing about her day, drawing pictures or even a list of basic sums. We don't often do these things though as we're out and about a lot of the time and when I'm sleeping, she's down her Grandmas. I feel that I need to be following some sort of plan with her, so that I can look back on her writing etc and see if she's improving.

When people who don't home school ask how it's going I always feel that I'm a bit vague, because to be honest, I don't have a clue! I know her speech is improving slowly but surely and her hand writing is also improving but that's about it. She's a lot calmer and seems happier, but she won't seek out her own learning at all.
Because of her learning difficulties it's hard to know what stage she's at. Do I go with year 1 or reception for her?

Sometimes I feel like she and I could do with a tutor comming in once a week to give us ideas and put us on the right track. I find that I'm spending far too much time researching on the internet different curriculums and ways of teaching her. When it comes down to it, when we're on owr own and I'm tired from my night shifts, DVD's do seem to be an easy way out. She enjoys them and seems to learn a fair bit from them and it lets me off the hook of being her playmate.

I know I'll probubly be flamed for this but if I'm not honest, then there's no point in posting.
I feel that if I had set things to do every day, then she'd enjoy doing these things with me and I'd feel like we are accumplishing something.

Is there a basic curriculum I could follow which is good for children with SEN's, mostly related to speech and language and auditory and sensory processing difficulties? Or should I get a tutor once a week to set us some work and acess her learning as we go along?

I sometimes feel I'm out of my depth, I know she's only 6, but I'm dyslexic and still find spelling and even reading some words very hard. I was also quite bright at my daughters age. I could recite whole books etc. My daughter is much, much worse and I don't feel I can just say "oh she'll get there in the end" as I'm still finding it hard as an adult and I went to school, had supportive parents and had a high IQ. I find that hard to believe but there you go.

If anyone has any advice, I'd be really greatful. Thanks.

I tried to teach her about amimation when we were watching her tinkerbell DVD. I told her that a team of peple draw the pictures and put them together and that actors do the voices.
She looked at me and said "I do know that mummy, that's what I want to do when I'm a grown up". I didn't think she'd have a clue about these things. She still thinks if she points the phone at her toy, the person on the other end can see the toy.

Oh MLL- I hadn't realised you'd pulled her out of school (though I thought I hadn't seen you for a while). Is there not a suitable local school she can attend, or are you HEing for other reasons?

Do you have a curriculum sketched out at all? I am so glad that she is calmer and happier

Hi, yes she's out of school now and she is much happier. When I mention schools and if she'd like to have a look around the one her best friend now goes too, she gets very anxious and close to tears saying "I don't want to go, please don't send me back". I think the whole thing has really traumotised her. Her teacher was a bit of a bully as far as I can tell and through things the other parents have seen.

It wasn't ment to be perminant, but I've seen such a change in her and her personality is really blossoming again, I'm enjoying her company so much more now. I'd love to think it's 100% the right decision for her but I can't be that sure. Then again I couldn't be sure that school is the right choice either.

If I could find her the perfect school, that has very small class sizes, the children were nice to her, and a very kind teacher who could teach her to her own ability and boost her confidence then I might send her.
I'd miss her like hell though.

Is it worth posting over on SEN board to see what people might recommend?

I'm not sure how much your dyslexia would hold her back at this age, as you obviously don't have grammar problems, and simple spelling you're secure with.

Bumping for some home edders to see (I only opened it because I saw it in active convos, and hadn't 'seen' you for a while!)

I will, it's worth a try. I'm not so concerned about how my dyslexia will effect her, well at the moment anyway. It's more that I had loads of imput from teachers and my parents and I'm still learning now. I'm concerned that my daughter will need far more help than I did as her problems are far greater.

When my 3 DCs were small we used a lot of Schofield and Sims workbooks - they are cheap (around £2) and there are lots to choose from. They have Foundation Stage, KS1 and KS2 (although I didn't find the KS2 books as good).

We have also used Bond No Nonsense Maths and English, which are very plain and clear - no distracting pictures. You can also download, free, extra sheets from their website that go alongside the books, so if you wanted to have a go with those, you could just download a few pages and see how she gets on.

I know you were holding back from phonics but have you looked at Letterland? We used it and all loved it - each letter is a character (Annie Apple, Clever Cat etc).

If you are interested in having some structure, there is a structured home ed forum, which is private, here There are several people on there with DCs with SEN, so you may find some other useful resources.

Also, are you a member of HE-special? It is an email support group for people with DC with SEN.

I'm dyslexic and still find spelling some words difficult.
My three children are all more dyslexic than I am and my youngest was diagnosed as very severely dyslexic (dyspraxic/dysgraphic and ADHD too) and I was told she would probably never manage on her own and would need one to one help for all of her school days.
We took her out of school aged nearly 9 (with all those supportive teachers etc) and she couldn't even write or spell even her own name.
We became autonomous home educators as it became apparent that it would suit our family best. I worried, of course i did,about dd2 (and so did she), but we allowed her education to run ahead, whilst waiting for her reading, writing and spelling to catch up in it's own time.
We didn't neglect her education, but we didn't want to frigten her off education any more than school already had done, so we lived a lifestyle very close to what most people do in the summer holidays-but we did that all of the time.
we wanted to encourage a love of book reading (so many schooled children do not read for pleasure, let alone dyslexic schooled children), so we read everything and anything she asked us to. We didn't make her read a single thing if she didn't want to. Never said, "you have a go", or "you try sounding it out". We had tried that and it just led to a hysterical child-as did every reading/dyslexic scheme we tried at first.
WE read newspaper articles, if she asked about them, bought magazines she chose and read them to her, we read stories and watched mountains of DVDs -many of them, she watched over and over, and then we'd talk about them, if she wanted to. She watched TV programmes on all sorts of things, vikings and historical houses, and animal watch programmes. Anything and everything she wanted to.
We went to museums and art galleries, and I read out the descriptions of the things she ws interested in. If there were worksheets, if we were doing a HE workshop at a museum for instance, I read out the question, she answered and I wrote down her answers.
We spent hours in fields and in woods, camping with home ed friends and she would play for hours.
She had listening stories from Calibre but much preferred watching DVDs.

and we talked, and talked and talked. About everything and anything.

oh and Lego....she played with Lego forever!
She built houses and then whole villages of Lego. We discussed what would make a good village (a pub/shop/post office/playground/village hall and school were her answers) and she designed and planned and built it, out of lego.
She has always wanted to convert a big van to travel in, so from a young age, she designed interiors-she started with lego! Then we went to the boat and caravan show and looked at and discussed designs-which lead to learning about scale. and then she started to design quite accurate drawings of the interior of a van.

as she got older, we continued to follow her lead. She is a vocalist and sang at HesFes Children's caberet the first time live. We got her singing lessons after that, she joined a band aged 13 and started to travel independantly around that time to met up with the band (all home ed and lived about 80 miles to the north of us) and gig live with them around that time.
It was at about this time that she began to 'get' reading. She travelled everywhere with a mobile phone, and we counted stations, so she would know when to get off, and someone always met her.
I remember she called me once, as she had an unexpected change to make and didn't know how to spell 'Crewe' so she rang me and said "I can't find a station spelled 'Croo or Crew' on the board, would 'Crewe' be the one?"
She says now, that it was like someone tripped the switch one day and she began to 'get' reading and writing.
She seemd to have times when she plateaued and times when she had huge leaps forward in her abilities and knowledge.
but she got there, from exactly the sort of life that you are describing.
By 15 she was doing an OU starter course-and she achieved all of the outcomes by 16. She used that to get into a FE college. She was reassessed for her dyslexia and she is now a 'normal reader'!!!
DD2 and I cried at that result-something that everyone had said, would never happen!
She is 18 now and looking at HND next. She achieves distinctions in her academic as well as practical assesments.
My daughter is not the only person I have seen this happen for, I know quite a few dyslexic, autonomously educated children personally, that this has happened to.

And I know she has achieved way beyond what the children in the remedial class, she left behind in school have done. I know because we still see some of them, and dd2's SEN was so much more severe than any of them, in spite all of the input from their supportive parents and all of the 'expert' teachers.

Have you read any of Alan Thomas' books on how children learn at home OP?
It applies to children with SEN, as well.

Wow, what an insperational story. I had heared of children just getting it in their own time, but didn't know if that would be the case with children with SEN's.

I was 9 years old and at school and I didn't even know all the letters of the alphabet. I loved books and storys though and my parents read to me a lot. When I was about 10 , my Dad did about 20 mins a day of reading and writing practice with me after school. He even made an alphabet chart to put on my wardrobe door. (I pulled it down if I had friends around)

I'm sure it was just my parents that taught me in the end.
I have read that book you mentioned and found it very interesting but didn't know how well it would work for children like Lucy.

She is a real peoples person and always scored quite highly on social and emotional development when she was at school. She'll talk to anyone and shows real kindness and empathy. She is a far greater verbal communicator than her older cousens who are 11 and 12, dispite her speech problems. It dosn't hold her back at all which is a real blessing.

She loves imaginative play and will happily spend a whole afternoon just acting out what she's seen on a DVD. (She's Tinkerbell at the moment)

Do you think it's fine to just let her carry on doing this for as long as she likes? She does like writing too and takes great pride in her neetness. She'll tell me what she wants to write and I'll write it in her book, leaving space for her to coppy undernieth. She loves this, and only gets stressed or looses interest if I ask her to sound it out. Otherwise, she's fine.

I suppose I just needed re-asurance that we're doing o.k and that I'm not ruining her education.

You are doing ok and you are not ruining her education :)

Really really really - she is soaking stuff up ALL THE TIME. And it Does Not Have To Look Like School Work To Be Valuable.

Thank you, I think we must be doing something right as she's now fully toilet trained after 4 years of trying, he speech is improving and she's a lot happier.
It's just hard to believe that it'll work, it seems too good to be true.

I home ed as you know, just talking and being together is learning but I like to do some 'formal' learning' so each day we do maths and english and some other 'subject' plus a bit of craft and computer.

With Lucy I suspect, that as with younger children,when shes learning something new all the other things lag a bit - so whilst youve been trying to toilet train her and school have been trying to teach her - she cant do everything at once,thats why some children are early walkers/talkers/toilet trained etc .... now her speech is improving that will help her no end.

In playing shes recalling things copying things etc etc and this is 'learning',in effect you could say shes learning to be a little girl.

Look at her and see what are the next small steps getting dressed alone is a skill,finding matching hair bobbles is a skill etc etc you will find theres many many activities you do in a day that qualify as 'learning' you could try counting and understanding the concept of numbers,you could look at her name and say L what else begins with L? oh lightbulb on/off lights on the road red means stop green means go etc etc then when you are out walking you play red/green for stop start walking etc.

Eventually you will see that everything is learning .....my eldest ds is 17 and in Sept will go to uni to study law at xmas we were walking into town and he said shall we play christmas alphabet? when he was home educated we use to play this game in a variety of themes it involves ....A if for angel ...B is for bells/bows/baubles etc etc etc.

I also like the idea of letter land. That's how I learned at school. I think it'd help with the ones she gets confused with that look the same like p, d, and b. It would help if she could visualise the picture that goes with them. I didn't know it was still around actually.

I think we'll just carry on with being child led for now, we have lots of games we play which help with listening, concentration and phonics. She enjoys these as she see's them as games and not work. She also draws a lot and we write storys together. She'll say what she wants to write and I write it leaving space under each line for her to coppy it if she wants too.
We also make cakes, cook, nature walks, play with play dough, puzzles etc and I read to her every day.
We have certain things we have to do every day like her Movement therapy and her piano practice, other than that we're very relaxed.

I'll keep testing the water every year to see if she's ready to move on to learning to read. For now, I'll keep reading to her to keep her love of books alive.

Thanks nickschick, how gorgeous is that, a 17 year old about to study law asking to play Christmas alphabet. I'll definatly borrow that idea from you if that's o.k.

I suppose it's true that she is learning all the time then. She spends lots of time with other people too so she's very sociable and learns things from them too. At the moment, when she stays at her Grandmas house she gets up early to see the sun rise and has learned about where the sun comes up and how it changes throughout the year. She's also learned about the dawn chorus. I'm glad her Gran is an early birld.

I think it's a far more gentle way and pace of learning. I think it's more natural too. When I see her home educated friends, they are so well behaved, polite and they just seem to know how to behave and talk to adults. When I compare them to the children at her old private school, the difference is amazing. I think home ed is brilliant. I need to have more trust in myself, but I think that will come in time.

Letterland is how ds3 learnt to read - I never taught him!! (ds1 learnt easily ds2 couldnt read until I took him out of school and home edded him at almost 9) having seen ds2 virtually shamed into sounding out at school we 'did' letterland ...I might be munching mike saying MMMMMMMMM all the time ds3 might be bouncing ben saying bbbbbbbbbbb- then when we looked at books he sounded the letters - and he was reading way before he was 'due' at school- there was no trauma no pressure ....it is a more relaxed way to learn.

Ds1 once at secondary school wrote about about the person he most admired - it was me!!! in it he said sometimes she makes choices that we dont like sometimes she makes us do things that we dont want but always when I look back I see it was for the right reasons (and i keep on looking cos one day she will be wrong!!).

Keep at it.

I have to confess ds2 HATED being home edded and couldnt wait to return to school horses for courses I suppose.

Ds3 and I have lots of stories about a dog called Monty that we make up when we have chance when we are walking or sitting quietly - one day we will write them down and print a book!!

Horses for courses indeed.
Ds and dd2 loved letterland dd2 hated it! It didn't help at all with the confusion of d,b,p and q. Now I know she couldn't hear the phonics as well as not recognising the shapes of the letters or the words.

We continued reading to her until she got it, as I said, she says it was like a trip being switched.
There was no moment of her 'being ready to learn to read/being taught to read'.
But as I said, her dyslexia really was very severe indeed.

The first inkling that she could read, was aged 13/14 she read 'Ladies' on a toilet door, where there was no picture.
We danced around in the corridor when we realised what had happened. Then she began to read road signs etc.

the first books she read were a Tarot card book and 'The picture of Dorian Gray' by Oscar Wilde!

Nowadays she reads books for pleasure and when she gets a good one, she can't get her head out of it!!
For me, her reading for pleasure is one of the biggest kicks, a true success for home ed.
I remember when, after finishing Dorian Grey, she bounced into a bookshop and asked where all the classics were. She was almost estatic on finding Jane Eyre etc after watching them all on DVD for so long, suddenly she could read them herself!
You should have seen the book sellers face, meeting this very excited teenager!

Interestingly the same thing has happened with reading music. As I said before, she is a vocalist but up until about two years ago, the notes were jumping off the lines, the way letters did, and she couldn't read music at all.
Eventually that movement has stopped and she writes her own music now, as well as reading others. She is also charging through music theory grades and is catching up very quickly with her peers.

I have to say julienoshoes' posts have over the last few years given me faith in my ability to home ed.

why thank you nickschick.

The home ed community caught my family, when we were falling. Two of my children wanted to end their lives, and the other was heading for trouble.

Thanks to the help I recieved from this community and to home ed as a way of life, I have three happy healthy young people, who simply love life.

(and it is looking increasingly likely that all three will be following their own very different paths, but all in higher education at the same time, come Septemeber-something way beyond theirs or our dreams, when they were unhappy struggling, dyslexic children in school!)

I can never repay what the HE community did for me and mine.