feelining a bit guilty about doing sod all in 3 days.

[mummyloveslucy]

I'm quite new to home ed as my daughter only came out of school at Christmas. She's nearly 6. We started by doing some maths sheets in the mornings and some phonics in the afternoons. About 1 hour in total. For the last 3 day though, we've done bugger all. She just hasn't felt like it and I couldn't be bothered to force her too. I also want her to enjoy her learning. She has learned some phonic sounds at school, so I don't want her to loose that ability. She has some learning difficulties and we've found that if things arn't re-enforced every day, she forgets.

I'm enjoying HE so much. I feel that my daughter is actually mine again IYKWIM. I really enjoy our time together and for the last 3 days we've been playing games, putting on puppet shows, going for walks, watching DVD's cooking, dancing and lots of other things. I know these things should be educational but I'm not sure how much she takes in as she's constantly talking to herself. She dosn't ask questions unless they are rediculus like "Is this all a dream or are we real?" and pointing to a toy and saying "is this real or not real?" Generally questions that are so abstract I can't answer then as they don't make sence.

I suppose what I'm asking is, is it o.k to just go with the flow like this or because of her SEN's should I be more structured. I do worry that she actually lost a lot of her skills when she entered year 1. In reception she could write about 10 words by herself. Now she struggles to wright her own name. This is the only reason I feel we should be more structured.

Like aviatrix's son, my older daughter couldn't read or write at all when she was six. I didn't see it as a problem. Her little sister has learning difficulties and unless she pesters me like mad about learning to read, I'm not planning to try it until she is at least seven. I'd rather wait until she is definitely ready rather than risk early experiences of failure which might discourage her and put her off trying.

I can understand your worries that your daughter may lose what she has learned if it isn't constantly reinforced. But that seems all the more reason to wait until she is keen, at which point she'll be eager to work on something every day. Kids do thrive on repetition if it is something they've chosen to do. Perhaps one day she will start playing a computer game obsessively which requires her to be able to read, and she'll get her reinforcement that way.

I'm a bit confused about your feeling that you ought to be more structured because of the fact that your daughter forgot things in Y1 at school which she had learned the previous year. Wouldn't that be an argument against structured work, if that approach didn't serve her well at school?

Poncey says that "As I understand it, one hour of one to one is worth three in school." I'd always thought an hour of individual attention was worth six hours of whole-class teaching! If a child is off school long-term, the LA is only obliged to provide five hours a week of tutoring, and tutors report that is plenty to keep the child caught up with classmates.

It sounds to me like you are doing quite a lot even on the days when you think you've done very little. It's also lovely that you and your daughter are having so much fun together. That is worth a lot: I'd rate happiness over education any day. Luckily, you don't have to choose between the two, because she is getting a big dose of both!

The LA may only provide 5 hours of tutoring but the tutor usually leaves work for the child to do! So they would expect the child to be doing more than 5 hours of work per week.

"The LA may only provide 5 hours of tutoring but the tutor usually leaves work for the child to do! So they would expect the child to be doing more than 5 hours of work per week."

Oh, I see! I didn't realise they expected younger children to be doing a fair bit of work independently of the tutor. Obviously they wouldn't be doing GCSE preparation in five hours a week, but I thought it was a different story with younger children. I stand corrected.

Relax :)

She's only just come out of school so she needs longer to get that out of her system (and so do you!)

You said yourself, you are enjoying it, just go with the flow. Make sure you've got lots of fun resources around - board games, craft stuff, puzzles, workbooks etc.

Saracen- That's a good point, I never really thought of it like that. I suppose I dread having to start from scratch but I suppose if she's more ready for it and keen to do it then it'll be far easier and more enjoyable for both of us.

She likes her Jolly Phonics sound lottery game and she likes listening to the Jolly Phonics songs on youtube. These will hopefully keep her ticking along. She also likes to write a short story, about 3 lines long. She tells me what she wants to write and I write it and she'll coppy it undernieth each line. These are the things she enjoys.

She's not at all keen on reading at the moment. She struggles to make the proper sounds and this tends to hold her back. She'll sound out c-a-t, then say "hat". This isn't done on perpose as she'll look at me for praise. I'll always say "great try!".

I hated school and didn't know all my letter sounds at 9! It was my Dad who taught me to read in the evenings after school. We'd play games and he'd make it really funny. That's what I'd like to do for my little one. I now love reading and writing stories and write them for my daughter. My parents gave me a love of books. Not the teachers.

We're enjoying HE so much, part of me is thinking "there must be a catch". Is she going to still be able to learn to the best of her ability? In school it's all push, push, push and now we've stepped out of that it's wonderful, but you kind of think "I should be doing more". I remember when we first brought DD home from hospital, she was asleep in her basket and my DH and I looked at each other as if to say "now what?" It felt as if we should be doing something even though she was asleep.
I hope this makes sence.

Sorry, v long post! :)

Hi mummyloveslucy ! I have 4 dcs, My oldest is 5 and none of them have been to school. I have read and heard from other home ed families that upon removing an unhappy child from school it was necessary to have a certain period of "unschooling" where the child wasn't given any sort of structure so as to heal the emotional distress the child experienced at school. Most people usually spend at least a month or two this way, maybe more if the child has been in school a long time. Once a child's confidence and self worth is restored it is sensible to assess how they learn best an if you wish to, set up some sort of structure based around your child's needs and preferences. If your daughter has special needs as you mentioned, my instinct would be less structure, not more. You said yourself you've done in three days lots of other things and believe it or not, she is likely learning much more through those activities than through a couple worksheets. I find it fascinating when my SIL tells me how wonderful her DS's school is because they do baking, playtime, snacktime, etc as opposed to the schools that haven't implemented the new learning through play scheme. What on earth do these people think are supposed to be doing at home all day? They should be cooking, baking, helping with laundry, playing hide and seek, digging in the garden and learning how to grow plants, visiting the library and listening to stories, then asking to read a few words when they feel the confidence to try it. If we as parents sit down each day to read to our children and teach them letter sounds and let them do as much drawing as they want, they will naturally begin to take an interest in doing things for themselves when they are ready. I think that there is no reason whatsoever to worry if your daughter is not yet reading. In many European countries children are not taught to read and write in the classroom until they are 7. I think this avoids children being labeled less able than their peers, because some children take longer than others to have the ability to absorb and retain these skills. Please don't let the established education system make you think you aren't "doing enough". If the system actually worked for the majority of children, we'd have a lot more geniuses in my opinion. If you have time you should look up "Changing Educational Paradigms" by Ken Robinson and RSA Animates on YouTube, it's very interesting. Hope you enjoy immensely watching your daughter learn new things everyday! x

Thank you. I've heard about un-schooling but thought it was another term used for home schooling. I told you I was new to all this. It sounds like a good idea. It's interesting what you said about your friend saying how good the school was for doing baking etc. Especially when most people who don't HE are very sceptical. It makes me want to prove them wrong.

When Lucy was at schoool, she saw herself as the less able one in the class which wasn't doing her self esteem any good. It will take time to give her confidence again. Waiting until _she's ready to learn to read should help.

I'll have a look at those sites. Thanks.

hello
all these terms can be confusing can't they?
It is recognised by the home ed community and experts who have looked into this, that the child deregistered from school often need a period of Deschooling

it certainly was true for my children. All three of my children had SEN, the youngest very severely so.
We spent so long in school trying to reinforce all the things she should know and forgot about.
Eventually after deregistering we were persuaded by other home educators to allow a period of deschooling. We declared ourselves on holiday from anything that the children would consider remotely educational (after all schoools we recokoned had long summer holidays, we could do the same ....just starting in January.

After a while of just watching what they were doing and answering questions as they were asked and doing what the children asked, our deschooling became Unschooling (which is usually called 'Autonomous home education' in the UK) as we realised that they had learned loads without any formal instruction!!

From outside someone might say we have spent the majority of last ten years doing 'sod all'!
We have read stories to the children whenever they want them, we have watched TV together, DVDs, spent hours on the beach, in the woods, paddling in streams, done all sorts of activities and camps with the home ed community nationally and locally.
Oh we have had a ball, such a lovely life.
The sort of life that others get to have on summer holidays, we've done that for ten years.

When they were ready to do more formal stuff they let us know......and did much of the organising of it themselves!

I have just read your op out to my youngest daughter. She left school aged 8 totally unable to read or spell, even her own name.
She says the time is simply not right for your daughter to remember this stuff.
It will come when the time is right, everything will click into place.

My youngest dd only learnt to read when she was 13, it didn't stop her learning though, we read those stories to her, we got her audio books from Calibre as we really wanted to help her have a real love of stories.
We searched for fossils, and went on Roman workshops and had pretend battles with the celts, we went to museums, art galleries and theatres, and I or someone from the HE community read everything she needed them to, without the ridicule and bullying she had suffered in school.
We talked and talked and talked and answered those questions........and I looked up what I didn't know the answer to!

I just googled "Is this all a dream or are we real?" and got 115000 sites come up, so lots of people are asking that same question!
I'd suggest that is the question of a bright child, who is doing some deep thinking!

Everything will fall into place.....unschooling isn't neglect, you are very involved with your children, following their path, facilitating their needs and answering their questions.

Things fell into place for us. Our children are now at university and FE colleges.

in fact one of the other young people at dd2's college said

"so let's get this straight, I have spent all the last ten years, sitting in classrooms, doing subjects I wasn't interested in, doing as I was told, unable to talk or play....and you were on a beach, or camping in a field, or watching TV, talking and playing as much as you want and we have ended up in exactly the same place here at college, except you are the one getting straight distinctions in the college work?!"

DD2 smiled and said "yes, that would be about it"

my best suggestion would be for you to go and check out that website I mentioned above, but read some stuff by Alan Thomas, there is an article on '[http://www.infed.org/biblio/home-education.htm Informal Learning']]{another term for Unschooling'autonomous HE!!) and he has a book out called Children learn at Home

sorry the website with the article on informal learning is here

Thank you. What an inspiring read!!

I will lay of the formal stuff until she is ready. She's going to be having speech therapy, auditory therapy and starting a movement programe soon. I think this will be enough for now. This is important as at the moment what she hears is distorted and she dosn't hear all speech sounds, her own speech is very distorted and she has difficulties with her thought processes and co-ordination. These therapies will hopefully improve the quality of her life. She is a very loving sociable child who wants to be understood and listened too.

She does Stagecoach and is going to start suzuki piano lessons as this is what she really wants to do and enjoys.

It's lovely to hear another HE child commenting on the situation.
I've looked at the last websites you posted, it was very interesting. I feel very motivated and reasured that we are doing the right thing.

The only tricky thing will be to now explain to my mum that we are de-schooling. No doubt we'll get a loud "What!! No work at all now??"

I'll just make her a cup of tea ang give her another .

ang???? and I think Lucy has problems.

Oops! Sorry, as Julienoshoes said, deschooling not unschooling!

"She also likes to write a short story, about 3 lines long. She tells me what she wants to write and I write it and she'll coppy it undernieth each line. These are the things she enjoys.

She's not at all keen on reading at the moment. She struggles to make the proper sounds and this tends to hold her back."

That's very intriguing! Many children come to reading by mastering writing first. In some ways it is a more natural and sensible approach than doing it the other way round. When writing, the child already knows what she wants to say, and is very interested in communicating it to someone. By contrast, when reading she doesn't yet know what the other person wants to say, which makes it more difficult. And when she does manage to decode it after much effort, there is a chance it will turn out not to be interesting to her!

If your daughter's eagerness to write continues, it is possible this alone will be enough to give her the key to reading, without ever being specifically taught to read.

I would definitely second what Saracen has said. I have found that the desire to write has certainly come before the desire to learn to read for both of my older DSs, presumably because it is a natural progression from learning to talk, to wanting to write something down (for example their name). Then when they have written it down a few times, suddenly it becomes very easy to recognize it written somewhere else. The same then surely is true for lots of other words, and indeed whole sentence structures. If they know how to write it, eventually they will automatically recognize the same words elsewhere without the pressure of being "taught to read".

I find myself very frustrated with my DH's father who is constantly carrying on about how clever DS1 is and how he should be reading (he IS) and how his DD2 was reading when she was 3. What irritates me most is that my DS1 CAN read but Grand-dad is impatient with him when he is reading (which makes DS1 more uncomfortable because he is trying to sort of hurry along and guesses words instead of reading them, so then FIL says he is guessing not reading, and asks if I've taught him phonics and gives me a spiel about how only one of his 5 children was taught word shapes not phonics and it made it hard for him to learn to read... fascinating, if I hadn't already been told this about 50 times by him!!) Phew! Sorry for the rant...

Good point! She was bringing home books from school every day which were so booring, to her as well as me. Even the drawings were rubbish. Each page would have one line that said things like "This is monty, monty is a big monster. This is Titch, titch is a small monster."

Lucy loves humor and enjoys the Dr Seuss and Julia Donaldson books. She also likes Roald Dahl especially if there is any toilet humor involved.

We'll carry on with her storys as she enjoys this and dosn't see it as work. She has a great imagination and her storys are often better than the books she's been bringing home.

Our favourite toilet humour book: "The Story of the Little Mole who Knew It Was None of His Business" by Werner Holzwarth and Wolf Erlbruch: tinyurl.com/5sblzch

Now available in a special "plop-up" edition, which I haven't seen.

"This is monty, monty is a big monster. This is Titch, titch is a small monster." I have a Monty! he is a small monster.

I think Steiner Educated kids learn to write before the learn to read. It seems highly likley that this approach works.

I am glad you and Lucy are enjoying Home Ed. It sounds like you are actually covering quite a lot and all the activities you have listed sound educational to me.

He, he. I love the name Monty!

Lucy has that book about the mole. She loves it! What is it with young children and pooh?

Interested. I have just had a book for children published. Not convinced by home ed so far, but willing to learn.

I got my ideas from my job.. which is state primary teaching...