How many hours per day?

[kandm]

Hi,

We are really keen to home educate our two children. We would like to find out more info, as much as poss before we 100% commit...... we have heard of the ed otherwise website and will be looking to join soon.

We were just wondering how people have got on with educating two children, of different ages, from the start? Our two children are 2yrs apart.

Also, we would be looking to follow the curriculum - how many hours do people HE per day?

We have spoken to only 2 families which HE and would really like to hear from more.

~ Many thanks in advance ~

That's a difficult one. I don't think I know any HEors who actually do follow the NC! Why do you want to? How old are your children at the moment?

We home educate all the hours that the children are awake. They do their learning by having conversations, watching things on tv, playing on the computer, reading, going round museums, playing games, going shopping...ie. everything they do in life. They don't seem to need anything more other than a life where lots of fun things are done.

I think if you were going to follow the NC (I assume you mean sitting down to 'lessons' - a 'school at home' approach?), then you'd probably only need an hour or to to cover what would be covered in a day at school.

Our children are coming up 2yrs and 4years this yr.

We want to follow the NC, at least a first, as we would then know they are learning what they need to learn. Basically to give us a guide and so we know what we are doing!! We also will want them to sit GCSE's in the future.

We are not necessarily talking about sit down lessons everyday. Just to know what sujects and learning need to be covered, not how it is learned.

Well, in the early years, there really is nothing they 'need' to learn that they wouldn't learn from just day-to-day life. I can pretty much promise you that! Look at what they've learnt already! Do you follow the early years curriculum at the moment? Or do you just take each day as it comes?

And in a lot of countries, they wouldn't start any sort of formal learning until they're 7 anyway, so it's clearly a contentious issue as to the age at which children could do with something more formal.

Most children will tell you when they need something more than just 'living' though - my oldest did and I know lots of other children who have done the same.

Also, there is debate as to the relevance of the NC anyway. Most adults don't remember much of what they were taught in school, so it's definitely not essential to life to know all the things the PTB have decided should be in the NC.

Have you read much about autonomous learning? There's a great book called 'How Children Learn At Home by Alan Thomas and Harriet Pattison, which is about recent qualitative research into natural/informal/autonomous learning and it's fascinating. Also any books by John Holt are great as well.

Thank you - we really do not know much about it, other than we are very keen!

We take each day as it comes atm and both kids are very happy and content. One thing (of many!) we dislike about schools is the unnecessary pressure they put on children, especially young children.

I think we see the NC as a bit of a security blanket for ourselves.... we do not want to fail our children and I am sure like everyone, we want to ensure we give them the best chance in life.

We really need to find out more about HE, but struggle with finding anything out!

If you do not follow the NC can you enter children into GCSE's when the time comes?

We are a very active outdoors family anyway... sports, horses,chickens, dog etc! so that side of things will not be a problem :)

I agree with Flamingo - for the first few years they need to learn to read/write, add up/subtract/divide/multiply, and learn about the world around them (which largely covers science/history/geography and everything else).

Yes, GCSEs don't need any entry requirements, but if your child wanted to take one or more, then they'd need to look up the syllabus and make sure they knew everything in it. Lots of HEd chidlren don't do many GCSEs though - just in subjects they're interested in. Many go straight onto A-Levels or Diplomas.

But you can certainly leave worrying about exams for quite a few years yet - there'll be plenty of time to teach to exams, if that's what you decide on - later on. GCSE courses in school are only 2 years; and that's for 12 of them!

Personally, I'm astounded at the breadth of knowledge my children have, without any formal learning at all. It's all come from their interests and I'm certain they know way more than their schooled peers do at this age. I'm not planning on doing any formal teaching at any stage, unless they ask for it, but I am very confident that I won't even be wobbling about it if they continue learning at the rate they are at the moment!

X-post with TA. My oldest (7) understands how to do all those things, without me sitting down and teaching her anything. What child doesn't love playing with a calculator (unless they're forced to do it when they don't want to!); and want to know what else you can do with it? What child doesn't enjoy playing aroudn with numbers (Unless they're forced to do it)?

And if you read and read to your children, they'll eventually want to learn to read too. And when a child's ready to learn to read, it happens very quickly. If you enjoy your child's company, then you'll probably spend a lot of time reading together and playing together, and all of that will include talking about words, letters, writing etc. Mine love writing lists, and people's n ames, and plans, stories etc.

I totally agree - to be honest I think we are 99.9% sure HE it is the right thing for us, but we do not know the first thing about actually being the educator, we do not want to fail our children and its massively scary!

So, any help and support, what so ever, is so much appreciated!

Will return later to check on this thread!!

Cheers :)

Get hold of that Alan Thomas book; and also 'Free Range Education' by Terri Dowty - very helpful books both .

To me 'educator' means 'facilitator'. I don't decide on any things for them to learn, I jsut provide them with opportunities and help them follow them up if they get inspired and want to learn more.

Learning happens all the time the children are awake. They learn things you don't want them to learn too, ie mine picked up my swear words!

Remember that you are already educating 2 children of different ages just by chatting with them about what you are doing, answering their questions and providing things which they play with.

There are lots of blogs. I am biased but if you search for home educating families following the Charlotte Mason/Ambleside Online free curriculum you may get lots of inspiration.

They have a Year 0 dicussion list, the introductory year, for ages 5/6/7. I haven't been on it aas my son is much older, but I guess the approach would be really helpful to read about and discuss online.

groups.yahoo.com/group/AmbleSide_Year0/

Exactly - reading/writing/adding up is something that just happens in daily life.

The Kings and Queens of England or the Romans or the water cycle are fairly optional.

Also, wrt monarchs of England etc.

The things my children (as in my 5 and 7yo) know about just through living and being interested in things include:

cheesemaking
how victorians lived
electricity
The reformation
The Tudor kings and queens
a better understanding of anatomy than most adults
gas/liquids/solids
how the weather works
lots about our solar system and the universe
the anatomy of giraffes, sharks, whales, snakes (that C4 series )
evolution
dinosaurs
fossils (they were fascinated by Mary Anning)

the list goes on...not much of this is in the NCT for their age group, but is later on, and some of it is not in the NC at all. But what they've learnt has been truly learnt - ingested and understood. It'll be remembered for far longer than anything they might get taught by someone who thinks they ought to know about it, and then memorised to pass an exam, before forgetting it again within a few weeks/months/years.

*NC

kandm
I too wonder why you would restrict youtselves to the NC?
The head teacher of the school that our eldest came out of, on learning that we were going to follow the children's interests said
"oh for the joy of teaching a child what he wants to learn......"

says it all really but of course, we didn't teach it, we facilitated whatever they needed instead.

There is a couple of threads I bumped a few days ago, so they shouldn't be far down.
Books about Home education
Websites about home education

both will give you plenty of reading to do!

I'd also strongly suggest finding a local HE group near to you and talk to other HE parenst and children.

Kandm, I EHEed two with 2y and 4m between them from birth to now. My DD is at uni, so I only have DS (16) left in EHE.

I last looked at the NC when DD was rising 5 and discarded it because my then 3yo could talk about all the science in the 7yo targets. Propbably neither of them could have passed a SATs paper at that point, because of the reading and writing aspect, but I wouldn't be hugely amused now if someone asked me to do an exam in some of the topics I know about.

I'd say that you can safely forget about the NC and GCSEs for at least eight years - and there is no guarantee any of them will exist in eight years. For now, enjoy the things you do and help your DC to achieve what they want to achieve. Do lots of reading, imaginary play, cooking, music, painting, craft, outdoor activities, etc. There is nothing a 4yo (or an 8yo, for that matter) needs to learn that does not come up in every day life. So, they need to understand what text is about ... they do not need to be able to read War and Peace unaided. Until they are well into double figures, you will be there to scaffold what they are learning - you can read to them for as long as they want and need it. You can help with arithmetic, etc. Other stuff, will come as they are interested in it - so they may become experts in animal care and biology but not in the Romans, because that is what floats your family's boat. That's OK.

At some point, they will want (and you will want them) to be able to earn their own living etc. At that point, you can help them find out about and gain the qualifications they need, rather than a generic set "in case". Many EHEers go into college at 14 or 16 to get GCSEs, etc. Some do Open University courses or take GCSEs as external candidates. Some go into apprenticeships or work. There are many choices outside the system.

Hi love, I do a hybrid of the Italian NC and the UK NC.

Typically we do 9-12.30 ish for formal learning and he has three afternoons a week when the rest of the kids have a longer day at school for independent learning (read as he bangs bits of wood together with hammer and nails while I try not to faint, or makes tents using my cushions and sofa covers, or creates man traps with bits of string). The rest of the time he is dashing around with his friends until he comes home and falls over ( =

I make sure that the formal learning isn't too heavily loaded in one direction. So if we are doing a lot of writing for Italian, I'll use interactive, or kenetic elements for English. If maths is very paper heavy that day I'll focus on video for science, or we'll go "out in the field", do experiments etc. etc.

I tend to place greater weight on task completion rather than time. Although that requires some tweaking for the days when you find you have been overly ambitious ( =

We also have a couple of breaks during the morning session because individual learning can be far more intense, with less off task time to recharge the batteries, than group learning. My son is ten years old so running around the garden like a mad thing between subjects to get the ants out of his pants is far from a time waster, it is an absolute necessity.

I'd say start small and work up to a level a good bit before where small people show signs of getting tired and frustrated. And remember a change is as good as a rest. I prefer to end on a high note where everybody is still happy and fresh(ish) rather than squeeze the stone for blood, which would set us up for a negative cycle.

Thank you for all of your advice and support..... it is fab to hear from various people and how HE their children works for them.

We would be very keen to hear from as many people as possible to get a good idea as to how many people follow the NC and how many people EHE, so please feel free to still add your opinions - we need as much info as poss for us to gather!

We will be looking into the books mentioned by you - thank you, we would not have known where to start otherwise!

Thanks again :)

I don't know anyone who HEs who follows the NC, they may follow their own curriculum but not the NC. To "keep up" you would only need about 4 hours a day until GCSE level. I would read around it and get to know some HE people (especially in your area).

My kids are at school BTW, but I know lots of HE, and certainly wouldn't be limited by the NC if I was HE ing.

We are structured but don't really use NC (I have used some NC resources in the past). I think when we started we did a couple of hours in the mornings or afternoons (but we were flexi-schooling so DS1 was in school 2.5 days a week).

We tend to do 3 hours with DS2 and DD (now 10 and 9) and DS1 (13) does 4 hours. But directed reading/piano practice are on top of that.

We use a mixture of resources - quite a lot of Galore Park books and lots of American resources. For some areas we follow a 'classical' curriculum.

If you are interested in joining a structured home ed forum (where there may be some people using NC), then send me a message with your email address and I'll send you an invite.

9.30am till 5.30pm, with an hour for lunch. Dd is 10.

getting from the confines of the national curriculum was a big part of HE for us.

We do our own thing - and cover a huge range of stuff. The other day we each took a national geographic magazine (were given loads recently - picked out pictures that interested us, and then went through each magazine with the others. Prompted loads of discussion over a wide range of subjects. Some fascinating, some just amusing.

It is wonderful to be able to do that sort of thing.

Steg
that sounds like a really long day
does your 10 yo press for tha long a day?
How does the concentration thing work?
I think the school day here in France is long (8.30-4.15 for 4 year olds) but included in that there is so much faffing non learning time, that it just about works out. But even for a 10 yo, the day you describe seems long.

Just curious.

"We would be very keen to hear from as many people as possible to get a good idea as to how many people follow the NC and how many people EHE, so please feel free to still add your opinions - we need as much info as poss for us to gather!"

Here's a bit of terminology to help you along! "EHE" is elective home education, which is what we are all doing. It just means the parents have chosen to educate the child outside of the school system. The approach described by Flamingo and others, where children learn what they want, whenever and however they choose to do it, is known as "autonomous education" or, in the US, "unschooling".

There are other options besides the National Curriculum or autonomous education. You could follow some other curriculum or combination of curricula for different subjects, or create your own tailor-made curriculum. Some families like "project work" where all subjects are done as part of a project. For instance, if your topic is "outer space" you can do literacy by reading and writing about space, maths by calculating how long it would take your spaceship to reach Mars, and geography by looking at satellite images of the earth.

In answer to your question, my family follows the autonomous approach. It may reassure you to know that when my older daughter tried school for a term last year, she had no difficulty keeping up with the academic work and adjusting to school routines, though she had hardly ever had a lesson of any sort in her life. They really do learn a tremendous amount by living their lives and taking an interest in things around them.

Find some people near you who are home educating, and you will probably get even more chances to talk through various options at length. Most HE parents love to talk to interested people about what they are doing. Many local HE groups welcome families with young children to come along to some of their activities. That should enable you to more about what the home ed social scene is like in your area.