Would it look odd if I took a 9 year old along to playgroup with her younger siblings?

[Fivefingers]

I'm thinking of taking my 9 year old down to a (0-5 years) playgroup at the local church hall with my 2 younger toddlers as I can't find suitable childcare for her (we HE at the mo). Normally I only take my tots there when her Dad is working night shift so he can look after her for me. There's a special Christmas celebration going on in the playgroup this week and I don't really want my tots to miss out as they love it there! I've spoken to the staff who work there and they say its fine. The place is full of babies though and baby toys. Has anyone done something like that before? I suppose my main concern is whether she would be frowned upon if she started playing with the toys there? She's already said she was going to bring her Nintendo and a book or two (she's not really a book person), there is a bit of craft activity there for the tots which I think she can take part in but I know she's not the sort who can sit still and I really doubt those will be enough to keep her occupied. She doesn't want to play with babies though, I suppose I'm just worried of parents looking at us strangely if she's playing with some toys that other babies might want!

I don't see a problem at all, you'll probably find that there are other older siblings there as well so she might find someone to chat with

I hope so, though the last few times I was there, there were only children under the age of 4 and quite a lot of them around the 0 to 2 age group. I suppose I might be worrying for nothing really!

If the staff say it's fine then I don't see any real problem, so long as she doesn't seem to be "hogging" any of the toys. Could she "help" a bit with the craft activity? Or play a bit with some of the bigger ones? If she comes across to other parents as a nice helpful caring sort of child, rather than an awkward or selfish one, then it might make things feel smoother.

It's not a problem to take her - the little kids usually love having a bigger child to play with, but it does depend on the child. If you think she can play with them and be careful etc then let her play, if not I would take her DS and tell her she needs to sit in one place and play quietly by herself. All children have to go to things for their siblings that they can't join in - HS or not!

I also think it's good for your smaller ones to go every week so it would be good for her to be able to go when DH isn't home - so I would be extra careful to make sure she isn't bothering anyone so that you don't end up with a 'no children over 4' rule being imposed - and we all know how easily some people are bothered!!

@ AMumInScotland : My daughter is not selfish, however she suffers from Selective Mutism and is not good at social situations and more often than not, she'd not speak or even make eye contact so yes to other adults who don't understand her condition, she comes across as "selfish" and "awkward". But its not her fault.

Hmm, it may be tricky if she's playing with the toys then, and doesn't respond easily to other parents if they try to speak to her. I totally get that its not her fault, but parents who haven't any experience might feel she's "spoiling things" for ther DC. I know I probably sound unkind, but back when I had a preschooler I would have been a bit put out by an uncommunicative 9yo playing with the toys at the toddler group, and might well have made a comment to the person running it. From that point of view, if she could bring her own things to do quietly it might be less ikely to cause an issue.

This doesn't happen very often - but I agree with AMumInScotland... it might be best to tell her that she needs to sit quietly and play with her DS or whatever and that she can't play with the other toys as they are only for children 4 & under.

Thanks for all your suggestions MuminScotland and ChippingIn. Actually I did wonder if I should tell her to refrain from playing with the toys, but felt a bit uncomfortable with the idea initially as it might be a bit cruel to deprive her of the freedom to play with the toys and knowing she might be a bit bored with it. Unfortunately, now I think that might have to be the case. Well its either that, or we forego the opportunity for the 2 tots to go to the Xmas celebration at playgroup this week.

I take my 9 year old DD with us to playgroup. It's never been a problem. She is good in social situations though.

I think you should try it - it will either work out or it won't.

Maybe you could take something for her to do? Maybe some paper and pens / books or a ds if she has one? Then if she finds it getting too much she can take some time out in a quiet corner or something?

She might find interacting with the younger children easier then with her peers. She must be used to that age group because of her siblings and the may be less demanding of full conversations and complex social stuff that she finds uncomfortable.

FiveFingers - it's hard as I don't know your daughter or how much her selective mutism/social 'delay' affects her - but I would expect a NT child of 6 (I know your DD is 9) to understand that the toys are there for the babies/toddlers and they have to take things to amuse themselves - yes they might be a bit 'ants in pants' but it's all part of growing up and learning what you can and can't do and how to control yourself when you want to do things but can't... think of it as a learning experience.

If I took my friends 6 year old I would be telling her the same, she is lovely and would mean well, but she's very clumsy and would probably knock a child over or step on one of them - so it would be for the best. She would sit by me and play on my DS with only the odd whistful look at they toys.

There's no reason for the younger ones to miss out - none at all,.

Well we've decided we're going and we'll just have to see how it goes tomorrow and hope it'll all work out fine.

I'm sure it will be fine - make sure you charge up the DS tonight and take a drink/snacks.

I'm sure she'll be fine.

My DD does play with toys when she's there but she interacts very well with the younger kids - she rebuilds the trainset, plays chef in the kitchen, shopkeeper or dresses the babies. They bring out the puppets especially if she is there as she'll keep some of the kids amused with animal sounds and stories. She'll also play with the playdough making the kids animals or cakes etc. They love having her there and she enjoys it too. It coud trn out to be a very positive thing for you guys.

Good luck :)

So how did it go? I hope you all had a good time!

My 11yo comes along to little-kid activities often. No one has ever suggested she doesn't belong there. I'd be prepared to argue the toss if anyone did. After all, if your family isn't welcome at a playgroup just because your family happens to include a home educated nine year old (and that ruling is made as a blanket policy irrespective of her particular behaviour), then your younger children are being denied access to a playgroup purely because they fall into a certain category. That, to me, is discrimination.

On the other hand if there is a specific issue because your older daughter's behaviour causes serious problems (eg if she were prone to running wildly around stepping on the little ones) then that would be a different matter. In such a situation it might be necessary to ban her if a solution could not be found.

I think we home educators are sometimes a bit too apologetic for the fact that our families don't look like average families. Just because no one else has ever brought an older child along doesn't mean you have to be too worried over doing so. Your daughter shouldn't have to behave perfectly in order to be welcome, as long as she manages not to totally ruin the experience for the little ones.

How long does it last? Can't she stay at home by herself for an hour or so?

If I took my 9 year old to something like this I would expect him to help - to play with the babies and so on. I understand why this might be difficult for your dd, but could she interact with the little ones and not the grown ups? You may have to explain a bit to the other grown ups there though, just in case they think she's being a bit rude.

Update : Yesterday's playgroup went alright, DD1 got bored of sitting with a game/book after about 15 minutes, went to join in with her little sister playing with the toys. One of the playgroup staff who had been quite friendly with me whenever I'm there (without DD1), tried to be friendly with DD1 as it was her first time meeting my DD1 there yesterday. She said hello to DD1 and DD1 did her usual SM behaviour - "blanking" her and not looking at her - then the mum said "What's your name" and DD1 uttered her name out, and that was it. I noticed a strange look on her face though as she walked away. Then a mum there started chatting with me halfway through the session, and asked why DD1 wasn't in school. I said she was HE and the mum asked why, I said she had a hard time in school with her SM, and the mum said (I didn't think she was trying to be rude though) that she really thinks I should consider putting DD1 back into school especially if she has a SM problem... But apart from that, really it went well, I would take DD1 there again though now I suppose some people there might have started thinking we're an odd family now - they did not know we were HE before, nor met my DD1 nor knew of her problem.

I could try out other playgroups too but I think playgroups just tend to have quite pro-school mums in there anyway and there's no avoiding the issue of DD1 appearing awkward to some people. On the days her dad can look after her at home, she'd still much rather prefer to be at home she said, as she found the playgroup a bit boring.

Well - of course she found it boring - she's 9!

Is there really no way she could be persuaded to help with the little ones?

I don't think it's inevitable she'll find it boring. I don't always find playgroups boring myself, nor does my older daughter, though sometimes each of us does. There are things to interest people in most situations, once they have got into the habit of looking for them.

And you may find that some of the apparently pro-school mums begin to come round once they have had their eyes opened to alternatives to school. Some may not be pro-school at all: I used to go to loads of playgroups and I'm not pro-school! Give the other mums a chance, give your daughter a chance, give playgroup a chance. If it's stressing you out then it may be better not to carry on, but otherwise I think you should give it a bit longer and see how it develops. Once you are all used to it, you might find it works out better than you expected.

To expand a bit on my last post, if you HE in the long run your daughter will inevitably end up coming along with you to places she might not have chosen to go and where you might not have chosen to take her. They will often be places which aren't designed with her needs specifically in mind.

This experience is often rather a pain in the neck. It can be embarrassing to be the only parent around who has an older child and I find myself wishing my dd would be perfectly helpful and outgoing. That expectation isn't fair to her. In my opinion she should be allowed to participate (or not) on her own terms, provided she isn't severely bothering others.

This may be difficult at the time, but there can be a value to it as well. It may take a while for that value to become apparent. You might discover that once your daughter has been coming along a number of times, she begins to be more comfortable and starts trying out different ways of behaving and maybe even interacting with people. Or you may find that once they have got used to her, other people accept her for who she is and become more tolerant. Or both.

There are skills your daughter will be learning when she goes places with you. I used to feel a bit sorry for my daughter because she had to trek round shops like Tesco so often. Educationally it seemed a waste of time, and she didn't enjoy it. Then one day as I parked, I was grumbling about having to haul her crabby little sister round the shop. "You two can sit in the car and read the library books," she said. "I'll do the shopping." I handed over the list and money and off she went. Now we do that often. She loves to shop now that she has the responsibility of it.

As I said, if the experience doesn't seem to be working out then cut your losses and stop taking her. However, it sounds like it is OKish at the moment, and in the long run it might turn out to be quite all right.

Thanks for sharing Saracen. I have taken what you've said on board and it has eased my feelings of guilt a bit more with regards to taking her along to activities which are not aimed at her but for her younger siblings :)