Sure Start, Nursery and Health Visitors

[Scout19075]

We have decided to HE BabyScout, who will be one at the end of the month. I have already connected with a local HE group, just to meet other local families and start getting a bit of "support" -- we live in an area where I didn't think HE would be supported and am pleasantly surprised to find out I am wrong! Anyway, the families I have met so far all have older children and/or didn't live in the area when their children were BabyScout's age, or didn't start out HE-ing, so I'm turning to the MN HE-ers with my questions.

1. We utilize our local SureStart centers a lot. I think ours offer some fantastic opportunities for the little ones and BabyScout always seems very happy when we go. We know most of the staff and they all greet us when we walk into the buildings. When we attend any activities they keep a register and I'm wondering, does this mean that I'm now on some LEA list somewhere?

1. And on the same line as above, through our SS, BabyScout was able to get six half-days of "respite" nursery care over the summer while I started some long-term medical treatments. Because it was through the SS that funding was received, I had to fill out forms, my case went to committee, etc. Am I now on a register somewhere?

I have often wanted to ask the SureStart staff the above two questions but have been afraid to get their backs up.

And 3., Health Visitors. I was looking through BabyScout's red book the other night, in preparation for his one-year check (seeing what immunizations are coming, what would they check etc). I noticed they have "school ready" checks. Obviously I want BabyScout to continue to have his wellness checks (especially given my medical history, I don't mess about), but am I under any obligation to tell the HVs that we're going to HE? And even if we're not obligated to, can anyone tell me the pros and cons of letting her/them know?

I'm excited about our decision, but seeing as BabyScout is our first/only, and I am American living in the UK, I want to make sure I'm doing things the correct/legal/proper way. Many thanks, oh wise MN ladies!

Given that most UK professionals are so unaware of HE and given that BabyScout is so far off compulsory school age, I think that both SS and the HV wouldn't quite know what to do with you telling them about your plans for HE. I think they'd be confused about why you were telling them and wouldn't be sure how to respond.

HE children have all the same healthcare entitlements as children in school... it's just that they won't have a school nurse or teachers keeping an eye out for them. So as long as you can demonstrate that you are proactively able to take responsibility for BabyScout's health and development (and you obviously are) then there won't be a problem.

I'd suggest, then, that you wait until BabyScout is at least 3 (ie free nursery age) before discussing HE with anyone official...

Even then, nursery is not compulsory. When my DD reached rising 5, I simply told me HV that we were HE and she did not pass the info onto the school nurse service - it stayed with the HV, I thnik. (And goodness knows what happened to it after we moved house!)

My DD (5.5) and DS (3.8) have never been to nursery or school. When the time came for DD's 'pre-school' hearing/eye tests, we took her to the local optician (kids get free eye tests) and I phoned the HV to ask about hearing tests - I explained we were HEing and just asked her what I should do about getting DD a hearing test. She offered to pop round to our house the following afternoon to do it for us, and did so. Easy as that! This was about a year ago. (I also put on DD's primary admissions form that no state school place would be required as we were HEing, have not heard a thing back from the LA in nearly 2 years so no idea if anyone knows about us "officially"!)

I'd say there's no harm in telling HV about your HE plans, but you certainly don't have to if that wouldn't feel right to you! Also I don't think SureStart have anything to do with the child after the age of 5 and don't seem to be bothered if you don't take advantage of their offers (we often get invitations to SureStart stuff addressed to "Parent or Guardian of DS", never go as not that bothered about it but never hear anything from them apart from that. Never get anything for DD from them any more).

Thanks ladies!

I've been worried that because we utilize these baby/toddler services (SureStart and the respite nursery while I was sick, though we do other groups like AquaBabies and parent-led baby/toddler groups) I'm going to be on list and therefore harassed because we're going to homeschool.

While we have a health visitor, all of the weigh-ins and developmental checks (after the 6/8 week one) seem to be done in a clinic setting so not sure I have a dedicated HV after a certain age. I guess I won't tell her/them until/unless it comes up.

Well really it's none of anyones business but your own.

We opted out of the health visiting service when ds was 4 months old (not hat we ever had to opt in, it's not a compulsory service). Never saw one again or had anything to do with the service since.

We just didn't send ds to school. It's not a decision you have to justify to anyone and if you want any hearing/eye checks when they are 5 or so, just go to a doctor or an optician.

Thankfully we don't live in a society -yet- that means you have to seek permission or let every tom dick and harry in a percieved position of 'authority' know what you are doing with your life. I just wish some services would realise that they can't make you feel like they have that power!

You don't need to tell anyone at all until you get to the normal school entrance age (5 ish). Sure Start probably keep a register for 2 reasons - to check everyone is out in a fire and to show any government busybodies how many people are accessing the service. All other checks are the same whether they go to school or not.

you don't need to tell anyone at compulsory school age either...

If anyone sends you a form asking about which local school you want, just say you are making private arrangements.

That's right. When we had the form sent to us asking which schools we wanted to put ds name down for we wrote back stating that we would not be needing a place - same as we would have done if he had been going to attend a private school, no mention of HE.

You don't need to tell anyone anything about your plans for your childs education.

Thanks again!

I figured with SureStart they took a register for fires and to see how many children/family access the activities for funding reasons. Our SS seems to have gotten busier lately, and have added groups/activities, which is a good thing. I have encountered people there who need the support and others like me, who just like to take their babies to different "clubs" to meet other babies, play with different toys, etc. I just wasn't sure how long they kept these registers and if they passed them on to some other government organization to hassle about schools.

I wish I was brave enough to opt out of the HV service. Where I'm from you see the ped for all of the baby checks as well as sickness and if you need a specialist they refer you to the children's hospital to see the ped-specialist-area. But I do like knowing that the HVs have drop-in clinics once or twice a week in our area, if I have questions or want BabyScout weighed or measured.

Thanks, ladies, for putting my mind at ease!

Scout - I see a ped for ds. He has done all of ds checks, immunisations and we've seen him whenever ds has been sick, he's a private ped based at a private hospital. We de registered and all had our nhs records sent to be stored centrally when ds was a baby and not used it since. Makes our lives a lot less stressful!

Dh is covered through work, so it doesn't cost us anything. but to me it's a far better way of doing things than to see a HV or GP and then have to wait to be referred for things. Plus, he's always happy to chat on his mobile if we have any concerns about ds and will always see him immediatly.

You don't have to feel brave to opt out of the HV service. I am a HV and a few families in my area have opted out. Just write and say you don't want or need a HV and that should be it. Certainly nobody should hassle you about it.

Home Ed shouldn't be an issue. In one area I worked there was a really active home ed group and I knew several families who utilised them from pre-school years. As far as the stuff in the red book goes - in my area we don't even DO pre-school checks as the school nursing service performs screening in Reception year. A GP can do most of it if you want or need it done and an opticians can do eye screens. If your little one seems fine then it's perfectly okay as a Mum to say "my child does not need this".

Heftynorks - that is refressing to hear!

When we opted out, even though we had made contact with a private hospital and sorted out our amazing pediatrician to do all ds checks from then on the health visitor referred us to social services and told us we were breaking the law. Even though ss were quite obviously not interrested in seeing us (although they did have a laugh about her down the phone when they rang to say how silly it was and they didn't want to see us) ds is an only child because of the experience.She really dragged it out. I have been too scared for 8 years to have another much longed for baby as we would not use the HV service again, we'd stick with our ped, bit I am terrified a HV would interfere and do the same again.

I have heard of some cases of people being referred to SS when they declined HV services, as Beatlebum had experienced. At our local GP, there used to be an opt-out box on the patient's registration forms at least 4 years ago. That was because when my DD2 was born 4 years ago, it was there and I remember checking it but it was clearly ignored because we continued to get letters to attend development assessment visits, which we did. The opt-out box on the registration forms must have stopped recently because when my DS was born 2 years ago, the forms no longer had that option. There are only about 2 private GPs where we live and on the one, they actually say that they share information with the NHS anyway to provide "better care" and that "there was no need to deregister yourself from your NHS GP". I just get the feeling that its probably going to raise alarm bells in some if I did decline child surveillance (the official name for all this HV stuff). Really not sure still if I should bother declining although I really dislike the one who saw my DS recently. She was very patronising and didn't like the fact that DS wouldn't perform for her during the appointment (i.e. he would not stack blocks in front of her even though he can already do it at home) and was going on about schools even though DS had only just turned 2 and was so shocked when I told her we HE. We're already known by the local authority though, so not really worried about details being passed from the HV to the LA I suppose. But still a bit annoying.

Fivefingers - I wouldn't touch a private GP who said they shared info with the NHS with a bargepole. Thankfully, the pri ate doctors I see have thief own issues with the NHS - especially the childrens doctors who have a lot of experience of parents turning to them after awful experiences with health visitors.

I have deregistered from the NHS - I was told by a doctor that it was illegal not to be registered with the NHS. I almost wet myself laughing, and my private doctor was furious when I told her what he had said.

Fwiw, I declined NHS 'surveillance'. I had a wonderful ped in place, who was willing to (and did) fill out the development checks in the red book which I duly sent to the local health authority to be put in ds records (only he used his loaf and didn't do tests on ds where he'd have to perform on cue).

I spoke at length to people at the nursing and midwifery council about my experiences as I have
obviously tried to get some sort of closure over the years and they have all agreed that it is rediculous. It makes me so angry that people are made to think they have no choice in their own or thier childrens
healthcare.

These days, Do HVs still keep calling regularly until the child is 5 years old?

Haya,
Am just wondering if anyone can give me any information on the roll of a HV?
I have two children and have never had a problem with HV'S till now.
I have a new health visitor because we moved area and she seemed ok, until just recently. My partner was diagnosed with depression 3 weeks ago and we confided in the HV, she turned around to me and stated, "it doesnt suprise me, i think mum needs some too" - i was fuming but just ushered her out of my house with out esculating the atmosphere anymore. Then yesterday she telephoned me 3 times, first time was to make sure i was attending a hearing appointment with my daughter that the HV 'forgot' to inform me was cancelled. Then followed 20 questions about who was watching my son. I said his father. Then she rang later to make sure i got back ok, and to ask why my daughter attended the walk in clinic and realed off a list of appointments, giving dates and times. I cant help but think she is calling me a bad mother, and checking up on me and my children. I couldnt be happier at this moment in time, but i feel like shes harrassing me. Can she gain access to my childs medical records without my consent? Not that it bothers me as i have nothing to hide, but it feels like she is implying that i am uncapable.

Many thanks

Haya,
Am just wondering if anyone can give me any information on the roll of a HV?
I have two children and have never had a problem with HV'S till now.
I have a new health visitor because we moved area and she seemed ok, until just recently. My partner was diagnosed with depression 3 weeks ago and we confided in the HV, she turned around to me and stated, "it doesnt suprise me, i think mum needs some too" - i was fuming but just ushered her out of my house with out esculating the atmosphere anymore. Then yesterday she telephoned me 3 times, first time was to make sure i was attending a hearing appointment with my daughter that the HV 'forgot' to inform me was cancelled. Then followed 20 questions about who was watching my son. I said his father. Then she rang later to make sure i got back ok, and to ask why my daughter attended the walk in clinic and realed off a list of appointments, giving dates and times. I cant help but think she is calling me a bad mother, and checking up on me and my children. I couldnt be happier at this moment in time, but i feel like shes harrassing me. Can she gain access to my childs medical records without my consent? Not that it bothers me as i have nothing to hide, but it feels like she is implying that i am uncapable.

Many thanks

Haya,
Am just wondering if anyone can give me any information on the roll of a HV?
I have two children and have never had a problem with HV'S till now.
I have a new health visitor because we moved area and she seemed ok, until just recently. My partner was diagnosed with depression 3 weeks ago and we confided in the HV, she turned around to me and stated, "it doesnt suprise me, i think mum needs some too" - i was fuming but just ushered her out of my house with out esculating the atmosphere anymore. Then yesterday she telephoned me 3 times, first time was to make sure i was attending a hearing appointment with my daughter that the HV 'forgot' to inform me was cancelled. Then followed 20 questions about who was watching my son. I said his father. Then she rang later to make sure i got back ok, and to ask why my daughter attended the walk in clinic and realed off a list of appointments, giving dates and times. I cant help but think she is calling me a bad mother, and checking up on me and my children. I couldnt be happier at this moment in time, but i feel like shes harrassing me. Can she gain access to my childs medical records without my consent? Not that it bothers me as i have nothing to hide, but it feels like she is implying that i am uncapable.

Many thanks

3lilbears, why have you posted this message three times? Give people a chance and they'll get back to you.

Hiya! Going back to my original posting....

BabyScout just had his one-year check with the HV (at 13.5 months) and the HV started asking me if I've been thinking which nursery/pre-school we're going to send him to. I'm not obligated to send him, even for the free hours, correct? And should I be hassled about it when he's so young? I almost blurted out "he's going to be home educated" but bit my tongue and said "I'm really enjoying being a stay at home mom with him and we're having a great time."

Other than that, checks were all good and HV said I'm managing very well, etc., so not worried on that front.

Hi Scoutingforsanta, I got hassled about it too with my baby son. I told the HV that we are HE-ing. She seemed unprepared for that sort of response, but apart from that, she didn't hassle me too much about the HE and left it at that for now. Another local HE mum I know who lives quite close to me (but has a different HV) told me her HV was initially a bit doubtful about HE-ing as she had had no experience dealing with HE families, but after dealing with her family for about 6 years (she has 2 children aged 6 and 2), and having subjected her 6 year old to some weird impromptu "quiz" once when she was 5, asking her questions about basic ABCs and numbers, and was satisfied with her 5 year old's response and never hassled her about sending her children to school. HE is not a common thing where I live, and I am not really looking forward to a further HV visit though, but have a feeling that might be in the works.

You don't have to send him to anything, she's probably just making conversation because he's reached an age where a lot of mums do start looking at nursery etc. Just say, "Oh we've no plans at the moment, he gets plenty of time with other babies at x or y or friends houses or whatever". It can often feel like people are hassling you because its a big issue to you, when they don't mean anything by it and are just saying the same things they say to everyone else.

Perhaps hassled was a bit strong, but I felt a bit awkward/uncomfortable. But she seems a bit "old school" so am bracing myself. Fortunately/unfortunately I don't think we have to have another appointment until he's two -- unless we think there's a problem, then we can utilize the drop-in clinics or make an appointment.

I know HE isn't common where I am, either. I've gotten involved with a local group but I'm the only one from my town (the rest are from surrounding villages).