Any advice greatly appreciated !

[Ragz]

Hi to Everyone,

I have just become a member here, but I have lurked for ages and read the forums. You all seem like such lovely people, and very knowledgable, so I am hoping that some of you may be able to help me.

I am just after some general advice really. I have 2 children, who I have been HE since 2008. It has been going fantastically, and I am so proud of how much we have achieved. My DS is 11, and my DD is 6.

I am hoping that I could get some advice on where to go now with my DS. He would be starting Y7 now, and we seem to be at a bit of a crossroads. Do we follow the NC as we have been doing, or is it time to consider "upping the ante" so to speak ?

I was just wondering what people who have HE into Secondary education have done, and what is recommended....also what study/work books are recommended by all you lovely, clever HE'rs out there !

As the title suggests, any advice would be hugely appreciated.

One more thing, could I also just ask, what set/s of/ books would people recommend for my DD who is 6. I have thought of the Oxford Reading Tree books, and I just wondered what the general opinions are ? Any others that are better ?

I do appreciate and give a huge thanks to all who take the time to read this and respond, any and all advice will be very welcome.

I hope I get to know you all as well as you seem to know one another.

Take care,

Ragz

Hello, I'm fairly new to HE but I've bought the Letts KS3 books for my DS which cover the curriculum for Yrs 7, 8 and 9. I don't think it'll take three years to get through them though. Not sure what you mean by upping the ante - in what way? I'm sure others will come along and give you suggestions for autonomous HE but I thought we'd stick with the NC and aim for GCSEs. It seems to be working fine for now. My DS does a lot autonomously on top of the more formal stuff I do with him. HTH.

Hi Tabliope,

Many thanks for your advice, I have been looking at the Letts...like you I don't think they will take 3 years though !

By upping the ante I meant should I be thinking about preparing for and taking GCSE's in a couple of years when he is 14. If we can break down the exams and he can take a few earlier I think that would suit him, as in some subjects he is very clever, and others need more time. Like all DC I suppose !

I am just reluctant to do more NC following if they are like KS2, everything seems to be repeated year on year, although my aim for him is GCSE's so I guess we have no option but to follow NC !

I am just trying to feel my way at the moment and trying to garner others opinions. This forum looks to be great for advice and my LEA leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to advice and help.

Many thanks for reading my ramblings, and yes, you have helped !

Take care,

Ragz

For your 11yo, I wouldn't worry too much about "upping the ante". If he knows what GCSEs he wants to do, you could download past papers in his "best" subjects and see how he copes. Many people start with maths or science, because they do not require the same maturity of expression as English. Saying that, Catherine Mooney (a home-educating mother) does a correspondence course leading to GCSE-level English. Many people rave about it and have younger children (11-12yo) do it. I know of at least one 13yo who successfully took IGCSE English this year.

You may find it helpful to look at www.home-education-exams.org.uk/ and join the related Yahoo group. There is a lot of experience of doing exams on that list and people can help with the exam experience, books and other resources.

I think so much of the NC is boring but my DS has decided he wants to take the subjects through to GCSE so we're going to follow the KS3 books first and see how we progress. History we're doing our own thing (plan on starting with Ice Age etc and work chronologically through everything, including some world history) although in time we'll go back to the NC so that everything is covered for GCSE. Geography he's pretty much does autonomously although again we follow the NC on the formal side.

The best thing about HE is you can go at your pace, e.g. we did volcanoes recently which my DS is only mildly interested in but it was in the KS3 book so we spent an hour on it whereas I know at school it probably would have been three weeks with the obligatory drawing of them, colouring in and labelling which doesn't interest him at all. I just think there is plenty of time and while I'm sure you could do GCSEs early with HE I'm not sure I'd want to do them too early as what do you do then? I'd find A levels too hard to teach so if he doesn't go back into a school before 16 he'll probably go to a college at 16 for A levels or the IB. Thanks to SDeuchars for mentioning Catherine Mooney. It's the type of help I think I might need for English later on.

I think one advantage of HE is the extra time you have to pursue the things that interest you. When you're in school you're so tired by the end of the day, especially with homework added in, the last thing you want to do is learn something for pleasure I've found. I hope this extra time means he'll work out what it is that gets him excited and pursues it.

Thank you so much for your responses. It's very helpful just to see what other HE'ers think. I don't want to push him in any way because then it becomes boring and potentially unenjoyable, and we have had such a great time since we began HE.

Many thanks to SDeuchars for the advice re. the exam papers site, I will take a look. Also, like Tabliope, thank you for pointing me in the direction of Catherine Mooney, I will certainly be having a closer look.

I'm glad it's not just me who finds the NC boring ! It just seems to repeat, repeat....and my DS got to the point during the last year where it was "do I have to do this Mum, I did it last year", and I really couldn't see the point in completing work I knew he already knew thoroughly ! My only regret is that it took me so long to discover HE for my son, we could have had a ball if I have done it earlier in his primary years.

I hope that you don't think I am one of those awful pushy Mums who thinks her progeny are SO clever, because I am not at all, I just want to keep my DC as interested in their HE as they have been up to now. Both my children adapted brilliantly, we never had any complaints, and it was something that we chose to do together. They look forward to learning new things, and we spend time on particular things they are interested in that they would never have had the chance to if they had been in a school environment, like you say, the 3 week study and picture at the end. That's what I find I love about HE, is that you can go at the children's pace, and there is no worry to get things done by a certain time etc...it's also a massive help as if they struggle with a particluar subject, we have the time to spend making sure they understand it before we "have" to move on.

Once again, thank you so much for your input, I think also maybe part of me thinking I needed to "up the ante" is because apart from ourselves and Hubby, I have had no support from any other family members regarding HE. I think they felt/feel that I took an easy option and we spend all our days at the park and doing little else..(I wish !) Even though there has been a marked improvement in both my DC and it is a visible thing, like my DD who is 6 learning to read, and people being able to see that, I have never had anyone say "well done you, aren't you working hard with them". It's like I need a piece of paper or something to wave at them and say "look what we achieved" ! But I suppose that could be a whole other story we don't have to get into now !

I look forward to getting to know everyone here much better, as I am sure I will be a regular visitor shouting help once in a while !

Take care all,

Ragz XXXXX

Hi there! My DD2 is also 11 and would be starting Y7 this Friday if she were in school.

I think this year will just be a continuation of last. I followed KS3 with my eldest, but abandoned it after Y8 as a waste of time. It is really just a holding pen between primary and GCSES. Lot of the stuff is repeated for GCSE and the rest is regurgitated from primary, a bit harder!

Having said that, we do follow some text books for the main subjects.

For maths we use this series, which DD really enjoys. We've done the first Y7 book already because primary maths is so repetetive she was ready. My eldest did a foundation GCSE this year (Y9) and that will be my aim with DD2.

For English I do quite a lot from this series, but we also do other English activites as we go along.

For the other subjects, I will do what comes up and what interests her. That's what we did for the last 3 years and I don't see why I need to change what works because she has reached an imaginary watershed, so to speak.

It does still feel quite momentous, though! My baby - secondary age!

Hi Musicposy,

Argh, don't..I'm sure I'm not really old enough to have a child in Secondary school !

That is what was worrying me, more repeatition....yawn. I am thinking I will give the Letts and CGP books a go, in line with his age/year group to begin with and see how he gets on. I have been looking and the subjects do seem to just continue on, only in a bit more depth. TBH, we have, since we started HE always done more than "required" anyway.

I think I am a lot like you, we study the "core" subjects and then choose a topic of interest, that is down to DH to find out about. I try to devise questionnaires and give him specific things to find out about/draw, but encourage lots of independent work, using all the resources we have available, going out and about too.

Can I just ask, how did you get into the GCSE's ? My LEA are not much help at all and there is so much info about, to be frank, I don't know where to start looking ! I have also heard great things about OU courses, but I am sure I am getting ahead of myself...I just like to be prepared !

Take care,

Ragz XXXXX

GCSEs were not as hard as I thought they would be to do, though it seemed an impossible minefield at first!

My DD1 is 14 and would be going into Y10. We did 3 GCSEs last year which worked really well as some are out of the way for her. The maths we did GCSE because there is no coursework, so all you need to do is find an exam centre. The Biology and Geography (we loved the Geography, it was so much fun) we did IGCSEs which are exam only.

The first thing I did was to email around 60 private schools - everything in a 50 mile radius - and ask them if they would take private candidates, and if so, for what boards etc. 3 out of that lot said yes, which might seem a low percentage - but you only need one! One of those offered to do it for free (only exam fee to pay which I believe was £34), so we went with that one.

Then I downloaded the syllabuses from the exam board websites (we did AQA for the maths and CIE for the others), bought a recommended textbook, and off we went! All we did was work through the textbook over the year, incorporating as much practical fun stuff into it as possible, and then a month or so beforehand worked past papers (available on the net free) like crazy. Then she went and sat the exams and that was it.

Feel free to ask me anything else you need to know at any time, now or future - I'm always on here!

@Tabliope: "I'm sure you could do GCSEs early with HE I'm not sure I'd want to do them too early as what do you do then? I'd find A levels too hard to teach"

Sticking my oar in here, because my eldest is only ten and not likely to sit GCSEs early...

but I feel strongly that if children are ready and keen to do "advanced" work, you shouldn't prevent them from doing so out of fear that they you'll run out of things to do later. You'll find plenty to do! If your child has the drive, he may choose to do A-level study under his own steam.

If not, he could branch out and do lots of other subjects. If he has a year or two to kill before going to college at 16, he could learn Russian, or study the history of South America, or take up a few sports or musical instruments, or start his own business.

I spent much of my childhood being very bored because the schools were afraid that if they let me go ahead then I'd be bored later. I think it makes sense to meet a child's current learning needs, whatever those may be. If he remains curious and interested because he's had his needs met, he'll find the right way to proceed later on.

Dear Musicposy,

(note to self, was supposed to come here for sound advice re. childrens education, not chat time for Mummy) !!

Thanks so much for the advice, I'm sure I will be bending yours and others ears a lot !

I get what you are saying Saracen, and I am very aware of not being too pushy, and not pushy enough. I don't want my DS to think that because a lot of the NC is repeated it is too easy, and then become uninterested. I feel like we sort of wasted last year, because so much of the NC is repeated, so I think I am going to start him with the "relevant age" books, and if it is apparent that he is finding it easier than perhaps he should, get some "advanced" work and see how he progresses from there.

I sometimes wonder if I am too pushy, because I try to include lots of different aspects to the DC learning, I sit and devise questionnaires, I download extra worksheets, I incorporate a day out with their learning and then ask then to write about it the following day, things like that.

I mainly just try to go by the DC, and we always have a weekly chat (PSE !) to see how they are feeling about everything, and I encourage them to write about how they feel about all sorts of things. If there is anything they have struggled with, we start again, that sort of thing.

I'm rambling now.....

Ragz XXXXX

"I don't want my DS to think that because a lot of the NC is repeated it is too easy, and then become uninterested. I feel like we sort of wasted last year, because so much of the NC is repeated, so I think I am going to start him with the "relevant age" books, and if it is apparent that he is finding it easier than perhaps he should, get some "advanced" work and see how he progresses from there."

A lot of it is going to be repeated, because in a class of 30 where kids don't get much chance to ask questions, concepts very often don't get learned properly in the first place. A school-based curriculum needs a lot of repetition built into it in order to make sure no one is left behind. A school cannot assume that because their Year 7 pupils were exposed to some idea last year, they have understood and retained it.

By contrast, you know whether your son has understood something. Or if you don't, you can just ask him - not practical in a classroom! Why not skip over anything that your son has seen before, if he says he remembers it?

Hi Saracen, I loved your post because that is exactly how I feel about things and what I'm trying to do. I wouldn't hold him back just so that he takes GCSEs at the right age or hold off what happens after that. I was just replying in terms of what Ragz was saying in terms of upping the ante as I wasn't sure what she meant and it sounded like quite intensive work would be required.

I'm sticking with KS3 as I think if you're going to follow the NC that is the stage before GCSE work. What I try to do is not spend unnecessary time on anything and if he wants to go off on a tangent that's fine. I've already worked out we can probably get through KS3 in a year. I don't believe in spending too long on something that he doesn't have an interest in (e.g. plants in biology) but as part of the course we cover it but move on before he's bored. I don't do any of what Ragz does although I'm sure it suits her DCs (questionnaires, getting him to write up things, download extra work sheets etc) as I know my DS would switch off. We do appropriate visits though - e.g. Stonehenge when doing stone age, British museum. We will probably start GCSE coursework naturally when we get through the KS3 books. I think it right to go through them as a lot of learning is building blocks. We have discussed what we would do if he completed his GCSEs earlier than 16 and as you say we could maybe travel for a bit or he could concentrate on his instruments (he does two) or set up a business (you must know my son as he talks about this a lot!). Actually now I'm thinking about it because he is interested we got the business studies GCSE book as he said he wanted to do the subject (there's nothing on KS3 about it). Even doing a couple of pages a week you could cover the coursework in a year so he might take that one early. I hope what you say is true and that come that time he will pursue naturally and independently what interests him. I hope so. He's very interested in learning and does a lot independently although definitely not at the age/stage where he could motivate himself to see a course through.

All I was trying to say is I wasn't sure about upping the ante as that sounded to me to be pushing things on faster than what develops naturally, although if that suits it's up to the person. I just feel there's plenty of time to go at your DC's natural pace and if you get there early fine. Hope I haven't offended you Ragz, not deliberate, I think it was just my interpretation of upping the ante.

I also wanted to say what SDeuchars posted somewhere made sense - that to do maths or science GCSEs earlier than 16 was probably easier than English as with maths the answer is right or wrong and you don't need the maturity that you would need writing an essay for English.

One last thing (sorry for such a long post) I do think some repetition is necessary (possibly some aspects of maths). The best part of HE is you can adjust it to suit the individual (not cover it if you know it, go over it again if you've forgotten).

Hi All,

Tabliope, no you haven't offended me at all. Everyone who HE has to find their own method of working, and what suits their child/ren best.

I worried last year that he was finding some topics boring because we had covered a lot of it, maybe I am worrying too much about covering the NC, and keeping in line with the appropriate work for his age, when I don't need to ? That's what I meant about upping the ante, progressing to the next stage instead of covering work he already knows upside down, back to front ! Reading some messages on here, I wonder if I get him to cover too much when it's not necessary, with the extra worksheets etc.

I realise of course that there does need to be repetition in some subjects, funnily enough, maths is an area where he struggles , but we just take our time and go over things and try different exercises until he gets it clear in his head. I know he struggled with maths at school, and I feel very guilty for not picking up quicker that he actually didn't try in lessons because he felt like he would never understand things. We are getting there though, slowly but surely.

All the advice and opinions people have are very useful, as I don't have much support in my little world, it's so lovely to hear about and "chat" to other parents/carers who are being and have been so successful with HE.

Can I ask, do any of you have "regular" visits from your LEA ?

Ragz XXXXX

@Saracen

Hi, I appreciate your post and what you are saying about repetition within a class of 30 children.

My only regret is that I didn't know about HE earlier, because had I known that it could be done before my son started school, he never would have gone.

Take care,

Ragz XXXXX

Hi Ragz, I do know what you mean about the NC being repetitious. I think if my son has to 'do' the Tudors again or plant life or WW2 he'll scream. I think the best thing is go at their pace, even if that's ahead for their age (as according to the NC). I'm still working out what works best - we only started in April - and between the two of us we're tweaking it all the time, e.g. DS said we need to spend more time on French so we will.

We seem to be doing two types of learning - following the NC, which was my son's wish even for subjects that he doesn't love but he's said he wants to do them to GCSE, and independent learning of things that interest him. It's all learning so fine with me.

I haven't actually had a visit from the LEA. Not sure if I will. They know about me as had to deregister DS from school but apart from a letter saying they might need to contact me for more information I haven't heard anything. All the best.

Hi Ragz,

I'm a lurker here (my DS is not quite 2) and I don't have much useful advice to offer about HE, but I've worked as a classroom assistant and also did a term just "hearing chidren read" from the Oxford Reading Tree scheme (as part of a school literacy drive).

Have you been able to borrow a few 'taster' books from the library or from a local school? My personal experience is that some infant children love the 'Kipper' stories and find them very motivating while others find them nauseating and completely refuse to read them. It would be worth finding out whether or not your DD is interested in the Kipper stories before you shell out a load of money.

I turned down visits because my daughter was so eager to please when she was younger. (She's getting a bit better now.) If the LA visitor had said something even just slightly critical, it would have preyed on her mind and worried her. If she'd been praised, she would have felt she had to continue with the praiseworthy activity at all costs. She would have put far too much energy into trying to figure out what this person wanted from her so she could produce just that.

I did send them an educational philosophy when she was five, and ever since I have been refusing on principle to send in any updates, since LAs have no legal duty to monitor HE families as a matter of routine. It would be easy enough for me to produce annual updates. But for other local families I know, the whole process is hugely stressful and actually impairs their ability to educate their children. I want to make a stand on their behalf, really. Many of them don't feel able to challenge the LA, especially if they are new to HE.

With my younger daughter, who's now four, I will take it further and refuse to supply any details of the education I'm providing her unless the LA can demonstrate good reason to believe I am failing in my duty to educate her.

I don't feel that all parents have to behave as I do. But I think it is very helpful if a few of us draw a line in the sand, just to establish the limits of LA power.

Getting rather militant in my old age!

Good Evening to All,

It's so nice to have you all to ask advice from, because I am still learning as I go with HE, this place is invaluable !

@ Tabilope, having lurked here for ages and read others experiences, I think that maybe I have been far too rigid regarding the NC, and that this year maybe I can relax a bit, and make my life a little easier in the process. I understand how your DS feels when you mention certain history or science projects, because I have had the same reaction from mine !
You must be one of the lucky ones with regards to the LEA, I have had my own personal experience with mine, which hasn't been too bad (more below) but some stories I have heard have been toe-curling !

@ greenbananas, Hi many thanks for your advice regarding the books. I went to the bookshop called "The Works" (don't know if you know it ?) and bought her loads of the books where they are "4 for £5". We have the set of "Little Bear" stories, and lots like "Owl Babies"...I just tried to choose books that I thought would interest her, but that weren't too long to become too "trying" for her. She has been reading those sorts of books on her own for the past year, but it was partly because of an LEA visit I had when the woman asked how did I know her reading had improved (well, actually because I taught her to read !) and what did I think her reading age/ability was. I just thought perhaps I should get a set of "recognised" reading books so that I would be able to say next time, "well she's reading Level X with ORT" (or Ginn) mainly to reassure the LEA. I have heard good and bad about the ORT because of the reasons you describe and just wondered if it would be worth spending lots of money, or not ! I might just invest in a couple, and see if she likes them first !

@ Saracen,

Hi ! We have had 3 visits from our LEA. Our first visit was from the EWO, which was to find out why we had de-registered the children, and we shocked her with the reasons we gave, and it went very well ! We then had a visit from the Education Officer, who was supposed to offer us advice about the best books/texts/resources we could use, which was fruitless as we had already done our own research and had everything and more that she advised ! We also had to give her our outline for how we intended to educate the children, and then a couple of weeks later we received a lovely letter from her saying that she was more than happy with our proposals and that she looked forward to seeing us in a years time.
This year, for our 3rd visit we had a letter requesting that a new lady come, as the other one had retired, which was fine. The visit went very well, and the children stunned her with how they spoke to her and conversations they had together, plus examples of their work. (It was a little bizarre, as she chatted to my DS about space and black holes among other things and when she asked DS a question he couldn't answer about black holes, off he went to get his space book and came back to read her a paragraph containing the answer !) She seemed to be in awe of him then and told us that we clearly had 2 very intelligent children who were working above their respective ages. She was very enthusiastic but just said to continue as we were. She also said that she was setting up a group for HE in our area and that she would email me the details. Well, she went away and a month later I rang the dept. to ask why we hadn't had a letter from her. The following day we had a very rushed letter, and it was as if she had no idea who we or the children were, and to date I still haven't had a email regarding the group ! When she left us she mentioned also that she would see us in a years time, but in the letter it says that she wants to visit in 6 months time ?!
Now, I don't feel that she needs to visit in 6 months, as they offer very little help anyway, but I wasn't aware that I could refuse to let them visit, or send them updates, until you mentioned it. I didn't see any harm in letting them visit, if only to "prove" that the children are not being mistreated in any way. Before our first visit I did recieve some advice from other HE'rs saying "don't let them in, don't let them see the children, they are a nightmare", but as we have nothing to hide, I didn't see them harm. I did hear some awful stories about how other families are treated, and it scared me silly.

I suppose what I am getting at is, can I contact them and say that I no longer wish to have visits, as they have nothing worthwhile to offer ? (Maybe not quite in that way ?!) I am actually annoyed that some LEA's can be very intimidating, and others lax, in the sense that ours really did have nothing to offer us with regards to HE apart from to say "teach what you want, how you want". I think what hurt me more than angered me was that she gave me a sheaf of leaflets with websites on, (most of which I had discovered myself, and the rest were defunct), but also a leaflet for an internet school she said was for HE children where she said they could choose to take part in lessons via webcam, which was fine, until I looked up the school and the main message is "for challenging children who cannot or will not attend mainstream school"

Oh, see, I'm rambling again now....but I hope you understand what I am trying to say/ask ?! Can I just refuse any more contact with them ? What has been the response from yours when you declined to send updates ?

(I like to think I am a little bit militant myself too !)

Take care,

Ragz XXXXX

Dear Ragz,

Yes, you absolutely can decline any more visits. I would write to them and say

"thank you for your letter dated [] confirming that our educational provision is satisfactory. My understanding is that under the current law, the LA has no obligation to monitor Home Education provision on a routine basis. We therefore would not expect to have to provide you with evidence about our educational provision again, either in writing or through visits. Please write to let me know if I have misunderstood the situation. Otherwise, I wish you all the best, and will not expect to hear from you again.

Yours sincerely, Ragz"

The relevant paragraph of these guidelines is paragraph 2.7. You might want to refer to it in your letter, so they know that you know what they are supposed to be adhering to. Warning: you are likely to be shocked at the divergence between the guidelines and the way your LA actually behaves.

Good Evening ommmward,

Thank you very much for the information, that's very useful indeed.

Take care,

Ragz XXXXX