Did any of your he children ask to go to school?

[bubbleymummy]

What did you say/do? DS1 is 4 and due to start p1 in Sept but we have decided to he. Today he said he wanted to go to school :( he's obviously picking up on it from books etc and I don't know what to say to him or how to explain HE. When I tried to explain it he laughed and said 'you're not a teacher!' :). This may just be a temporary thing, we're just seeing how it goes so I don't want to say anything that would put him off school in the future but how do you explain the benefits of HE to a 4 yo?!

"Honestly- your 8yo wanted to go to school, and you cajoled, persuaded and delayed so she would change her mind"

No, I didn't. I did what any parent would do - I clarified the situation with her, found out exactly what it was about school that she wanted (to wear gingham dresses and be with a specific friend) and pointed out the reality of the situation. I also asked her to take a couple of weeks to think about it and come back to me. When she didn't come back to me, I asked her directly if she was interested still and offered to phone some schools. She said no, that she didn't want to go anymore.

DS1 was given the option of secondary school; DS2 will be going to look round secondaries next month so he can make an informed decision.

I am not against schools - I'm a teacher and work in one two days a week!

I would employ exactly the same tactics if DD said she wanted to get her hair cut short - it's taken years to grow it, it's almost to her waist and it's not a decision I would agree to based on one day her asking to get it cut.

Skint, I actually asked how to explain HE and the benefits of HE to a 4 yo :). Obviously I think trying to explain the benefits at this age is a bit much. I've got a few ideas from this thread and I think we'll be fine. Today he is more than happy with the idea of being at home so the interest comes and goes and just shows that at age 4 he isn't sure what he wants (although I think he's pretty set on the chocolate for breakfast idea!) :)

sounds fairly typical - i do know a woman who thought haribo was ok in lieu of cereal...

Yuk. :( I often wonder about those marshmallowy type cereals. There aren't as many here as in the U.S but why on earth do people buy them?! A whole other thread I think!

froot loops

Sorry, bubbleymummy, I think I got sidetracked from your original question too.

"I just wanted some ideas about how to explain the concept of HE when all he sees in books is the classroom scenario with the teacher at the front. Are they any books out there involving HE children who have a brilliant time learning all sorts of interesting things and not being confined to a classroom/NC etc ?"

Pippi Longstocking. There's an entertaining episode in which Pippi tries school and doesn't like it

Edward's First Day at School by Roesmary Wells. Picture book in which a reluctant young bear goes to nursery. Everyone is kind and there are lots of fun things happening, but he simply doesn't want to be there - so after a week, his parents take him home again, with the teacher's blessing.

The Happy Hedgehog by Marcus Pfister.

Nim's Island. I haven't read this, but enjoyed the film.

Skellig. Possibly too scary for a 4yo. My older child is easily frightened and I only read it to her when she was ten! I don't know whether a 4yo would "get" this book anyway.

In E Nesbit's collection of short stories, "The Magic World," there's a really beautiful short story about an HE boy.

The Railway Children have a great time, though the fact they have become "too poor" to go to school is presented as a deprivation.

First few books of the "Little House on the Prairie" series. The children start school along about the third or fourth book in the series, I think.

One of the Narnia books is an escape from a boarding school, I forget which.

Winnie the Pooh. I believe Christopher Robin was tutored at home for a few hours a week: the real CR certainly didn't go to school until he was 8 or 9. The last story, I think, refers to CR going away to school. It is clear he won't have much time to play anymore ("they don't let you") because he is supposed to be spending more time on formal education.

Finn Family Moomintroll. Dunno whether this counts, being set in a fantasy world in which school doesn't exist. I can't resist recommending it, however. It's a lovely book featuring very diverse characters who manage to accept and tolerate each other quite well - and very humourously!

I found this which was recommended on MN.

this is a younger version.

I haven't got them myself as we decided not to HE but they may be worth a look! :)

Wow! I didn't realise there were so many. Thank you! I remember seeing Pippy Longstocking on TV when I was younger and thinking it was a great idea to strap scrubbing brushes on your feet to clean the floor :) I must check out the books.

Also The Children of Cherry Tree Farm, Enid Blyton. The children are prescribed 'no school' and time in the country by their doctor (did doctors ever really do this?) and go to spend a year running round the countryside learning all about wild animals.

My son said he wanted to go to school when he was 4 because all his friends were going and our culture prepares them to want to go. Now he's nearly 7 and has friends who go to school and home ed friends and I'm really careful not to be negative about school, but he's very clear at the moment that he doesn't ever want to go to school and loves being home ed. I'm glad I didn't let him choose at 4, because he didn't really know what home ed would be like. If he was consistently now saying that he wanted to be at school and his reasons made sense then I would arrange for him to go.

"The children are prescribed 'no school' and time in the country by their doctor (did doctors ever really do this?) and go to spend a year running round the countryside learning all about wild animals."

That reminds me - following an illness, one of Laura Ingalls Wilder's sisters wasn't well enough for school. If I remember right, she hadn't liked school much anyway and was glad enough to be out of it. Also, wasn't one of the girls in Little Women school phobic? Or am I remembering that wrong?

And I was pleasantly surprised by Skellig: in addition to the character who is long-term home educated, the main character (aged about eleven) has several weeks off school because he is worried about his ill baby sister and feels better being home with his dad. No one seems to find anything odd about this arrangement.

Skellig was my first (teenage) exposure to home education and when I decided I'd be starting of with home ed until it didn't work for us any more.

Saracen - yes, Beth in Little Women is, I think, seen as too delicate for school, but not physically delicate, just not emotionally suited to it.

I remember trying to convince my mother I was emotionally delicate too, but she wasn't having it.

bubbleymummy - my partner HE'd his kids 15 years ago, and said there were alternative books aimed at HE kids. He thinks one title might have been "Not every child goes to school".

I just found your question because I'm having a similar worry right now.

My son is 4.5 yrs old, and has been attending an excellent nursery for a couple days a week since he was 14 months old. All his friends are going off to school, but I'm not a believer in the formal education of small children, and think that 'schooling' at his age does more damage than good. Regardless of their ability (my son is bright and articulate for his age - much more so than most of his peers, though not reading yet, as I haven't pushed that with him).

He wants to go to 'big school' because he thinks that is what all children his age do. He thinks it will be fun, like nursery (which we also call 'school'). I do not want him to go to school at this age, and think he would very soon find it overtiring and restrictive and boring. But I feel a little torn at the moment, that I might be depriving him of something that he desperately wants to do. That sounds a bit weak, but I hope you know what I mean.

To top it all, I'm pressed on all sides by my extended family, who really think he should be going to school. Only my partner (his step-father) shares my views. Anyone got any suggestions for how to best explain this to him, without saying stuff like 'big school' is boring (because I don't want to put him off the idea of going to school at a later date, when he is older). Maybe if I just tell him they won't let him do painting everyday, he'll accept that.

goneboho I know exactly what you mean. DS hasn't mentioned it again but some of his friends have now started school so he may say something soon. My mum's foster son is at secondary school and DS has asked me a few times if we can go visit him/ play golf with him / whatever and we've told him that he can't because FS is at school. Without making school a negative thing for the future, this at least seems to have given him the idea that school gets in the way of the fun things he wants to do now so that may be enough! :)

Harking back to an earlier post: Hulababy's Wed 25-Aug-10 19:42:53 on continental education.

"The whole not starting school til 7y is not actually that accurate. The norm in such countries is that children go to some form of kindergarden for a few years prior to that. And often there they do do reading, etc. and what we would call school work, as well as the social skills that we cover in preschool and reception.

I know children (now adults) who have been through the European system and it is nothing like what we believe it is like with no child going into an educational setting til 7y at all."

THis is a fair point but it only applies to recent years. In the days when Sweden led all the educational leagues, kindergartens were far and few between: I never went to one but spent the first 6 1/2 years of my life (could have been 7 1/2 had my parents so decided) pottering at home. The baseline in those days was the assumption that a child's home would be a good place to start education and that it was important to learn practical skills in the early years, to have something to hang your reading on. So I learnt to ski, to bake a cake, to find my way around the woods and identify edible plants and berries, to do basic sewing and knitting, to use a hammer and saw before I decided (aged 5) that I was going to teach myself to read. Most of my friends did not learn to read before they went to school at 7, but they did acquire the practical skills.

The reason day nurseries are so prolific in Sweden these days is not because of a change in educational priorities but because mums work, so they need daycare. And practical skills are still prioritised in the early years, though children are allowed to learn to read if they like- but not made to, until they start school.

Personally, I like schools and my children attend school. And in many ways, I think the English educational system is overtaking the Swedish one, which has gone downhill in recent years (I am very happy that my dcs do not attend their Swedish cousins' school). But if there is one aspect where I think the Swedes have the edge on us, it is in the early emphasis on practical skills. English children do not seem very creative and the stuff they bring home from school is, quite frankly, tat: a candlestick presented to me by a Swedish nephew or niece otoh will be functional and actually take real candles.

I think it's too late to go back to a general system of late school start and children at home until they are 6: not enough mums can afford it or even want it. But I would like to see better crafts training for teachers, less health and safety red tape, and less agonising about early reading.

DS has just asked to return to school. Not the one he left recently due to bullying though. He feels he wants to be part of a school. I'm disappointed to be honest but if he feels happier with going to school I can't argue with it.

haven 't read all the thread but just would say we took our dd out of school (reception year) after7 months as it was a disaster. She has aspergers and just couldn't cope in that environment at that age. 18 months old she has said she wants to go back to school I know she couldn't cope in that environment and like your ds needs a lot of stimulation and is very bright. I know because of her needs that the reality of going back is something very different to what she's imagining and thinks she just really wants anothe raudience to talk at! She very much likes things her way and doesnt respond to the normal themes etc used in schools and therefore has managed to learn really well at home tailored to her. It is a big decision but its not irreversible. I think just highlight the sort of things you might do as he and then go from there.

My 9 yr old school-educated child knows that HE is an option, we regularly discuss different ways of learning and that they have their own advantages and disadvantages. So we acknowledge that there are negatives of school but he also knows that we think the positives outweigh them for our particular situation, at least at the moment. So far he's still keen on school, but that may change.

I think "because we think school/HE [delete as applicable] is best for you" is OK as a reason for a particular decision, to give to a quite young child, if you're going to impose a decision and not offer a choice at that age (reasonable). More detailed explanations have their place later on.

Yikes, I'm just browsing through threads on the Home ed board here because I'm intending to HE my child (early days, still pregnant!).

I had assumed that this would be a space to ask questions about HE without having to defend your choice. The responses to this post have definitely warned me off considering adding this to my list of resources/forums in which to ask question about home schooling!

I'm sorry OP that you had to justify yourself over and over like this. I like the suggestion someone made about books that explain HE to young children. Is it possible to meet up with other families who home educate? And potentially there are some videos online about home education that might be appropriate for your child to watch?

I hope, smaych, that you will have browsed far enough to see that this is a great place to ask about HE. Occasionally people stray in and ask us to justify it or are hostile, but not often. Mostly it is a place for people HEing to share experiences and for people considering it to get more info.

Is it possible to meet up with other families who home educate?

Yes. Try Googling your area and "home education". Or post your location here and we'll point you in the right direction. Most home ed groups are happy to have people with very young children or pg visitors.

With a pre-school child, it seems strange to me to try to sell them the benefits of HE. Basically, you'd be saying "life isn't going to change. You're going to continue being at home with me and X siblings. We'll continue to read, watch TV, bake, paint, etc." Why would you do that?

If you get into HE groups (or find a good toddler group that does not throw you out at 3yo), then there is no problem with "everyone else" going to school. Only some of the people you know will be going to school. When my older DC was rising 5, she knew children who went to school but I helped run a church toddler group that did not have a problem with older children. I also childminded and we went to an HE group. So my DC did not see school as "normal" it was something that other people did but we didn't - no big deal.