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Did any of your he children ask to go to school?

70 replies

bubbleymummy · 20/08/2010 13:29

What did you say/do? DS1 is 4 and due to start p1 in Sept but we have decided to he. Today he said he wanted to go to school :( he's obviously picking up on it from books etc and I don't know what to say to him or how to explain HE. When I tried to explain it he laughed and said 'you're not a teacher!' :). This may just be a temporary thing, we're just seeing how it goes so I don't want to say anything that would put him off school in the future but how do you explain the benefits of HE to a 4 yo?!

OP posts:
skintbint · 25/08/2010 02:01

we have friends that homeschool, so our dcs know that option is available (ds1 asks to homeschool occasionally)

school have managed to keep my bright kids occupied and learning - and i can't believe that out of 10 schools, only one explained the concept the concept of differentiation to you. really? where on earth do you live?

two out of three of mine have had ieps drawn up to ensure they are extended, and the other one is on a regional programme for able students. they are 6, 8 and 10.

i've thought about he, mostly because of the issues you hinted at ('my kid is too clever') but tbh (and we move around a lot so he would be the obvious answer) so far i've always found a school that suits their needs.

that said, i'm only lurking around on the he board because we might give it a go next year (due to location, rather than how brilliant my dcs are), and i've got nothing against he at all. but you have to do it for the right reasons, surely? and the reason you are doing he, has to be the reason you give the child for him not going to school...

or am i missing something?

bubbleymummy · 25/08/2010 09:33

Colditz, read it that way if you want Hmm but I think you'll find that Ive said a few times that he may go in the future and we're taking HE one term at a time. At the moment I think he is too young and the only reason he's asking to go is because he sees it everywhere. He's not going to miss out on anything by not going and he could occupy that time that would be wasted doing things he already knows by learning new things that he's interested in. I'm not sure why you are so much against that idea but clearly you have a bit of an axe to grind about HE.

Skintbint, I don't think this is a case of 'my son is too clever for school' I just don't think we've been as lucky as you in finding a school that meets his needs. Some of the schools that we did like have been ruled out because of our recent move. Our local schools are small country schools and when there is a TA in the class s/he is working with SN children so DS would just have to work away on his own worksheets or books or whatever. I don't see how that is a better option than him having 1-1 with me at home. As another poster said (sorry I cant see your name from here!) why should I deny him the opportunity of being HE?

OP posts:
colditz · 25/08/2010 11:52

Well, tell him what you've told us. That's how you handle it. I don't have an axe to grind at all, I just don't understand why your reasons for HE are not reasons you can explain to your child!

bubbleymummy · 25/08/2010 14:49

Hmmm Colditz, that's not quite what I got out of your previous posts but if you say so.

OP posts:
themildmanneredjanitor · 25/08/2010 15:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MoreCrackThanHarlem · 25/08/2010 15:16

I never usually post on HE threads because the response is usually ignoring all the posts that disagree, as colditz said.

Denying your child the opportunity to go to school is mean and blinkered
EY education is not about phonics/numeracy etc
It is about learning social skills, indepence and routine

The post about the little girl not wanting to go to school because it means leaving the house all day every day made me laugh

Isn't that what a school should be doing- preparing children in every way for adult life?

MoreCrackThanHarlem · 25/08/2010 15:21

And this-

'Last October she said she would like to go to school, so I said to have a bit longer think about it and we would discuss it at half term. We also had a chat about school and I found out that basically she wanted to go so she could spend more time with a specific friend and so she could wear gingham dresses!! I pointed out that she wouldn't wear the dresses all year round and that the school her friend was at was over-subscribed and that she wouldn't be in the same class as her friend (different years) and left her to think about it. By half term she had more or less forgotten about wanting to go!!'

Honestly- your 8yo wanted to go to school, and you cajoled, persuaded and delayed so she would change her mind
I think the 'propaganda' referred to on this thread is coming from the Home ed parents as much as the schools

skintbint · 25/08/2010 16:07

not one school, bubbley. dd1 is 10 and in her fifth school, ds1 and dd2 are in their second schools but about 4th or 5th if you count nursery/ pre-school.

if you are expecting 'education' to mean 1-1 time with an adult (this seems to be the rationale?) then of course, no educational establishment is going to match up tbh. you're quite right. that level of attention is unattainable and actually i believe not particularly desirable. i'm interested that they are small schools (with presumably small school sizes) that aren't acceptable - presumably this would mean more 1-1 time, not less? (if this is your criteria?)

i'm curious. dd2 had statemented 1-1 support for yr r because of her cp. you seem to be suggesting that a TA in the class purely to support an sn child/ sn children is a bad thing, whereas i see it as enabling not just my daughter, but a group of similarly able (yes, able) children to extend their learning by moving at a faster pace. it's actually easier for a teacher to extend the more able children with dd2 in the class. Grin i'm sort of resenting the implication that all the sn kids must have learning disabilities which preclude them from working at the same or higher level than their clasmates tbh.

that said, we have occasionally requested that TA support be minimised as we felt that she was becoming too reliant on adult company (note - company not support - she would talk about going to school in terms of going to see x and y (the support staff) and not her peer group friends.

anyhoo, there has only been one school so far that was not suitable for my children (the headteacher advised me not to send them to her school - i can already see you thinking 'oh, that's like us' but in this case the school was an inner city fresh into special measures, with a transitory population and a plan to implement a huge behavioural transition plan over the next two years. in their case the priority for the school was to re-establish discipline and work with the community to provide early parenting support to raise entry ability.) in terms of the ability and social capabilities of the peer group she told us to look elsewhere, and come back in two or three years, when she felt the environment would be more suitable.

but the next school we looked at was fine.

i'm really struggling to believe that any teacher, or ht, told you that your 4yo would be bored at school tbh. you might have inferred that from looking at the level of work in the nc at that point, but in our case suitable differentiation has been in place.

but like i said - i'm actually quite pro-he. Grin i'm just curious what your rationale actually is. apologies if it isn't 'my kid is too clever' but that was the implication i picked up. why do you want to he? (genuinely interested)

anastaisia · 25/08/2010 16:58

soooooo; I assume that if your children came home and said they wanted to be HE you'd let them try it out ASAP ?

SpringHeeledJack · 25/08/2010 17:21

I'm in a bit of a weird position as I have one in school and two out- so I am pro both rather than anti either Smile

stories about children at school are not "propaganda" as was said upthread- they merely reflect the experience of most children and are written by (ahem) writers- not shadowy figures from the DFES or whatever the hell it's called these days

my dcs (7) went to school for the whole of their Reception year. They made lots of friends learnt a lot of stuff and had a good time and came out of school just into Y1. Now they are HE they have decided they would like to go to school again in Y3 (ie in a year's time). They are in a good position to decide for themselves as they know what school is and what HE is and have had positive experiences of both. I'll let them go as soon as they decide that that's what they want.

About either HE or school I'd say- don't knock it till you've tried it Smile

MoreCrackThanHarlem · 25/08/2010 17:37

'soooooo; I assume that if your children came home and said they wanted to be HE you'd let them try it out ASAP ?'

I would certainly take it seriously, and try to accommodate their wishes

MoreCrackThanHarlem · 25/08/2010 17:41

Also, that would be very different in that I would have to leave work and move house to accommodate HE.
The provision for school is already there, and is, in fact, the 'norm'.

Tarenath · 25/08/2010 17:49

" I would have to leave work and move house to accommodate HE."

Oddly enough I would have to leave work and move house in order to send my child to a school I liked and felt he would get on with. Probably outside the country too, but there we go. That's just my opinion. Each to their own which I think is the main point here.

skintbint · 25/08/2010 17:51

i'm not sure if you're talking to me anastaisia?

i think i said upthread that ds1 periodically asks about homeschooling, and that we may be he-ing the three of them next year? one of the dd's also periodically asks about boarding school, as we also have some friends who board. (again, we'd look at that, except we can't afford it Grin)

i have friends that homeschool very successfully - my dcs know that it is an option.

i'm not questioning he in itself at all, i'm just curious what the op's motives are, as that would have a huge bearing on what she tells her ds as to the reason he is homeschooled.

at first it appeared she thought her ds was too clever for school (he would be 'bored'), but now it might be that he won't have the teacher's undivided attention... i'm not sure. just trying to work out what the reasons for he in this case are?

there's a lot of very angsty discussion about education of all sorts, i was just curious as to what aspect of (presumably) state schooling the op felt would not suit her child in this instance?

skintbint · 25/08/2010 17:54

(in fact, lol, back to the op, my dd1 first asked about boarding school and when she would be going at almost 4, because she'd read about it in books - it was easy to say no, because it costs a lot of money and we don't have it Grin)

so, that was our reason for dismissing the nearly 4yo's educational choice...

HSMM · 25/08/2010 18:11

My DD has had the option of HE all the way through school. She is now off to Secondary School and really looking forward to it (I am not). I think she has enjoyed school more, because she knew it was optional for her, so nothing could ever be too bad.

Another point about starting reception ahead of a child's peers - at her school, they allowed the bright children to work in classes with the older children, or set them the same work as the rest of the class, but with added extensions. It worked really well. I questioned what would happen in Year 6, but they reassured me (and did) that the more advanced children would be given more advanced work.

anastaisia · 25/08/2010 18:31

(sorry skintbint - wasn't talking to you, hadn't refreshed the page and it was the posts above yours I was replying to with things like:
"Denying your child the opportunity to go to school is mean and blinkered" in)

MoreCrackThanHarlem · 25/08/2010 18:44

Not against HE, btw

Just think it's madness to deny a child the opportunity to try school, especially when they express an interest. Try a term- if it's not for your child continue with your HE plans, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

bubbleymummy · 25/08/2010 19:30

A lot to reply to! :)

TMMJ - School isn't the only place he can learn those skills. There are plenty of opportunities outside the classroom. What about all the children in Europe/other parts of the world who don't start school until 7- are they all lacking in those skills because they haven't been in a classroom?

MoreCrack - the above response kind of applies to your first post too. Also, I'm not 'ignoring posts that disagree'. There is nothing to disagree with! My original post wasn't should I send my son to school or HE? I was asking for advice about how to explain the concept of HE to a 4 yo. A lot of posters have now come on to criticise my decision or ask me to justify it and that has moved away from the subject completely. I have tried to reply those posters but it would seem that my answers aren't good enough Hmm.

Skint, I am glad you have found so many schools that you feel suit your children's needs. As I have said before, we have not. Also, I am in no way implying that it is a bad thing that there is a TA for children with special needs and I have no idea why you think that! I am merely pointing out that with the TA helping children who are finding things more difficult (this is what the headmistress has told us by the way) and the teacher occupied with the remainder of the class teaching them the core subjects, DS would be left to his own devices which seems a waste when he could be receiving 1-1 at home doing the things that he wants to do. I realise that school isn't all about education but during the time that it IS about education I would like him to actually be learning something and not just whiling the time away. The other activities involved in school he can still enjoy at home or at other groups etc...
It was the headmistress who actually said that they weren't sure what they would do with him. Other friends/family members who are teachers/nannies/tas expressed concern that he would be bored and we find ourselves that he is constantly on the lookout for new information and new things to do and if he gets bored he gets disruptive - I do not want this happening at school. I do not like the expression 'my kid is too clever for school' because that suggests that I don't think that ANY school will EVER be good enough and that just isn't the case - as I have said before, we are willing to let him go in the future if he wants to.
Regarding my reasons for HE, I've already mentioned quite a few on this thread and tbh I don't really feel like I should have to list them out to try to justify our decision. In light of all the negative responses and criticisms I don't really want to provide more ammunition for those who are anti-HE. :)
At this stage, I tend to think more 'why should I send him to school?
' Because it is the norm' doesn't cut it for me.
'Because of the other experiences he will have' Well he still have those experiences with HE as well as other ones which he wouldn't have in a classroom.
'Because he has asked to' will have more bearing when he is older. At the moment he would like to eat chocolate for breakfast and I'm not about to let him do that either! :) It may be next semester (when he turns 5) that we let him try it or it may be within teh next couple of years. I am not anti-school at all, we have just made the decision that we feel is best for our son at this point in time.

OP posts:
skintbint · 25/08/2010 19:32

that's ok anastaisia - i was a bit confused and didn't want to ignore you, in case!

hsmm - similar extension stuff for our dcs - dd2 worked a lot with the yr 4's in yr 1 - her teacher could see that she was much more sociable with them than her peer group, she described it as being on a similar wavelength/ ability level so more at ease. i'm not sure tbh - she has older siblings so is used to being around older children, but we have had similar experiences with ds1 - he has been routinely extended into other year groups for maths.

this year two of them will be timetabled to work with older classes within school for certain activities, and the third is accessing a regional programme. the ht has discussed switching year groups, but feels that the system is flexible enough for this option to be more satisfactory and suit the dc's better.

interestingly, though (well, to me Grin), it is the fact that i have 'bright' kids that means that i'm considering he next year - we will be moving again and so the dc's will leave their current school. there is the possibility that we will not be living within travelling distance of a secondary school at all, and potentially dealing with a language issue - again, school would provide a fantastic opportunity for three 'bright' kids to learn a language from scratch for a couple of years, but i'm curious how i feel about them potentially losing more traditional academic ground as a result.

so, if the op was worried about her bright child in the state education system, i could share some experience of how mine have found it, from a sympathetic pov. there are lots of threads on mn from parents of bright children who are worried about yr r. but there are lots of ways of working with the school to get the best of both worlds. (i suspect there are also lots of ways of working within the he framework to get the best of both worlds Grin)

op - i'd really like to know why you have decided to he?

skintbint · 25/08/2010 19:34

sorry, x post. will read. Grin

skintbint · 25/08/2010 19:41

but why would your ds be bored and disruptive? i can see that the attitiude of one headmistress who seemed to not really know how to differentiate would worry you, but surely they haven't all been clueless about the realities of a mixed ability classroom?

i'm sure in that instance i would have looked at other schools as well. in ten schools you haven't found a single yr r classroom where mixed abilities are catered for?

(i'm really not picking a fight, i know it must sound like it...)

i just find it hard to believe that in ten schools, there were no yr r teachers capable of differentiating work for more able students. especially it being part of the (gawd help us all) ofsted inspections lol. Grin

i'd be more convinced if you said 'i don't believe in the herd ethos at all'. (i'm not sure i do, really...)

skintbint · 25/08/2010 19:42

lol, attitude - clearly the reason i shouldn't he is that i can't type...

Hulababy · 25/08/2010 19:42

The whole not starting school til 7y is not actually that accurate. The norm in such countries is that children go to some form of kindergarden for a few years prior to that. And often there they do do reading, etc. and what we would call school work, as well as the social skills that we cover in preschool and reception.

I know children (now adults) who have been through the European system and it is nothing like what we believe it is like with no child going into an educational setting til 7y at all.

skintbint · 25/08/2010 19:45

i know the thread drifted a bit, but the only reason i was asking why you were he-ing (as i said before) was because that would give you the answer as to what to tell him... (with an age-appropriate little white lie if necessary) Grin

the why is crucial to your op - you weren't asking what to tell him about he, you were asking how to explain to him he wasn't going to school when he said he wanted to go. subtle difference.