I'm not sure wether to keep my daughter in school until she's learned the basics before HEing her ?

[mummyloveslucy]

Hi, my daughter is five and a half and will be going into year 1 in September. She's at a private school and has been there since she was two.
She has some SEN's and although she was diognosed a year ago as being 18 months delayed, according to her school report, she's now caught up. I'm not really sure what to make of that to be honest I hope it's true.
She is just learning to sound out words and can coppy simple writing after she's builded the sentence with magnetic letters, with help.
The school fee's are horrendous and from year 1, their work is far more structured and they don't learn through play very much, if at all.
I thought about home educating her from December and thought I'd give it a try over the hollidays. She's now been off school for two days and already, she's driving me mad. It's not that she's naughty, she's just loud and is never quiet. She has speech problems and often talks in words she's made up because she likes the sounds of them.
I haven't been trying to teach her really, but she's just not interested in anything. I tried to point out a dragonfly to her, but she couldn't be bothered to look.
She dosn't ask questions either like some children do. She just dosn't seem to be interested in learning anything.
I think if she was home educated at the moment, she just wouldn't learn. I'd find it very hard to teach her to read, although I read to her all the time, she's not interested in following the words with her finger etc.
I'm wondering if it would be better to wait until she's older, maybe 7 or so when she can read, write and do basic maths. Then at least, she can read about what interests her and we'd have something to go on. Hopefully by then she will also be more mature and not make silly noises all day and actually want to learn. (Fingers and tows crossed!)
I'm concerned that if I take her out now, she wouldn't learn anything, then I'd become dispondent and send her back to school, being even more behind.
She works well for her teachers and they say that she's enthusiastic in class. I find that hard to believe, but she does seem happy when talking about what she's been doing.
I'm not sure wether it would be better for everyone for me to work full time instead of part time to keep her at the school for longer, as I find work less stressfull than looking after my daughter for the day.
I have considered state schools, but the classes are so big, I think she'd be lost. I also worry about bullying as she has speech problems and isn't fully toilet trained.
We've even had issues with one of the girls in her class being mean to her and she's known her since they were two.
What do you think ?

I think you should go an investigate your local state schools. Talk to the special needs co-ordinators and find out how they could support your daughter.

I have been to see a few. The ed psych has said that she won't recieve any extra help in school because they alow for an 18 month vareation within a class. All the schools have 30 in a class, even the little village schools, as they combine years.
She's very friendly and works well one to one, but if there are a lot of children like at a park, or at a party, she won't intergrate at all.

I don't want to sound mean, but two days is not long enough to settle down, especially when her routine has been completely disrupted by school stopping.

She may be loud at home because she has had to be quiet at school. Making up words is a valuable pre-reading activity. You could offer to write some down if she is interested (do it phonetically if they are not real words). You could make up words that rhyme with the ones she is making up.

If she does have SEN, she may not learn to read, write and do basic maths at the school. When the school say she has caught up, what do they mean? They could mean "she has reached the very low level that we expected her to reach considering her SEN".

I think you are being hard on both of you - if she has been in school since two, you BOTH need to adjust to her being at home. You are not used to being with her all the time and you are expecting her to operate at a level which she is not doing. The teacher may be accepting that that is her level, so the teacher's assessment may be less negative but lower than yours, IYSWIM.

Personally, I would not want to put a 5.5yo with speech problems and not toilet trained into a Y1 class in a school where the work is about to becomse more structured. 5.5 is still very young. My DS showed no sign of interest in learning to read at that age. If you put her back into school, they are not going to have a magic wand - they cannot make her learn to read if she is not ready. All that will happen is that she will fall further behind and will know that is what is happening. At home, you can keep reading to her and you can read books that she is interested in, even if they are way beyond the level she'd be expected to read herself. One problem with beginner reading books is that they are BORING! Children often do not have any interest in reading because they think that those books is what it is all about. I'd concentrate on introducing interesting stories, sparked by whatever comes up. You could also use audiobooks.

OTOH, if you really cannot face being with your DD the whole time, she'd be better off in school.

Thank you. She might well just be adjusting to being home. I usually find the first weeks hard, then at the end of the summer I don't want her to go back.
I think the problem is that I'm not very patient, and I like time on my own.
It's strange really, when she's around me all the time I find it hard, but when she's not there, I miss her like mad.
We have shared interests such as music and art, so when we're both enjoying either of these together it's brilliant. We really enjoy being together.

You are right about the early reading books. They are so boaring!! I think Dr Suse books are a far more exciting way to learn. Even the pictures in the books she has from school are awful.

Why don't you concentrate on doing art, music and other things you both enjoy for the next week or two? Then you might want to reassess your idea of EHEing. Remember that you do not have to do reading and maths, unless you want to. You can do "mathematical activities" - such as art and craft, cooking, music, ...! Similarly, it is easy to introduce necessary reading into those activities - when your hands are messy, it is useful to ask a LO to read how many eggs you need, for example.

It means that your DD starts to learn the skills she needs, when she needs them, rather than you teaching them in the abstract.

If you find you have both settled down by the end of the holidays, then you'll probably be fine. Coping with being with other people 24 hours a day is about thinking creatively about when you're going to get time to yourself, not spending all day saying 'aahhh!!! I wish I could get some time to myself!' IYSWIM.

Arrange to have a whole day off once every couple of months; and make sure you go off on your own for at least a couple of hours each week - not to work, but to do what you want - window shop, or have a coffee with friends, or read in the library.

And I think you need to let go of the idea that you need to 'teach' her - read some stuff about autonomous/natural/informal learning - John Holt books are good, and the more recent 'How Children Learn At Home' by Alan Thomas and Harriet Pattison, might put your mind at rest a bit.

Hi, I am reading How children learn at home at the moment. It is good, but I can't help but think that these children don't have SEN's and are probubly quite bright naturally.
I was talking to my mum about it and she thinks that if you're child isn't naturally intellegent, then it won't work unless you're a teacher. I tried to explain what I'd read in the book, and she said that children can't go through life doing only what suits them and that if she choses what she does, she'll spend the day watching Cbeebies. So not very supportive.

I would go and look at the State schools near you, and talk to them. Not just go on hear-say, even from an educational psychologist. Schools vary a lot, some would be wonderful and nurturing. Does the Ed Psych have a hidden agenda of keeping her at the private school?

Also it is a well known fact of parents with children at school, that the first few days are usually HORRID. Then we adjust and it gets much better.

Is your daughter interested in anything? If so try just for the summer following those interests, and see where the journey takes you. I would think that is the best "trial" for HE

It is good, but I can't help but think that these children don't
have SEN's and are probubly quite bright naturally.

No, I think you'd be surprised. In fact, EHE is often of more use to children who are not "typical".

I was talking to my mum about it and she thinks that if you're
child isn't naturally intellegent, then it won't work unless
you're a teacher.

Teachers do not have some magic insight into the way the human brain works. And they certainly have no magic insight into the way your child's brain works. Parents of very bright children also worry about EHE - they think that they won't be able to keep up or stimulate the child sufficiently. The advantage that you have (for your child) is that you can be consistent and can directly address her specific needs.

children can't go through life doing only what suits them

Yawn! People often trot that chestnut out. She is 5.5!!!! There is so much of the world for her to explore, why shouldn't it be the bits that interest her? In 10 years, she'll probably get the idea that she wants to support herself and live independently. Depending on how she sees herself doing that, she will probably end up doing things that aren't her immediate impulse - she does not need to "practice" that from now. In fact, if she has enough choice now and finds out what she likes, she may be able to only do what suits her in life. The idea of training a small child to do what doesn't suit them, as if that is everyone's lot in life is soul-destroying, IMO.

if she choses what she does, she'll spend the day watching Cbeebies.

And perhaps she might for a while, if you do not have more interesting things to do. But not for ever. And it depends how you run your house and family.

So not very supportive.

Could you meet with some EHEers during the summer? Normal meetings often stop but sometimes they move over to being picnics in the local park. If you were able to meet people who are doing it and see that they are all varied and normal (not little geniuses), you might feel that it is less of a leap into the unknown.

Where in the country are you?

thank you. I should e-mail this thread to her.
I think it would really help to meet some other HEing people. My daughter is very sociable in small groups and makes close friendships, so meeting up with people regularly would be important for her. She can also do clubs outside of school hours and have friends around to play, but she is an only child and I don't drive so it would take a bit of planning.
I live in Torbay in Devon.

Thanks for you're advice SDeuchars, I do feel much more positive about HE now.
I'm getting lots of ideas together of things she'd really enjoy. She loves pretend play, so I thought we could act out plays together. She also loves board games, anything creative and music. I want to use the holiday to really have fun with her and strengthen our relationship, as at the moment I don't feel that I compleatly understand her. She is a bit of a free spirit, to say the least.
she asked if she could write a story today, so I got out her white board and she wrote a series of random letters in lines. I praised her and asked what it said and she said "Once upon a time, there was a Mummy, a Daddy and a Lucy and they loved each other very much and played games and sang songs all day long. The end".
I think things are starting to look up.

Great! At some point, you could ask if she would like you to write it the way other people write words, so that you can read it when she is not there (or send it to Granny, or whatever). If she likes that idea, you can do it and then get it out later and read it (or get her to read it).

There is a book called Gnys at Wrk that you might find useful. The author reckons that invented spelling is a stage children go through.

BTW, that suggestion is not to trick her into reading and writing - it teaches the very valuable lesson of why we write and read.

My 5yo spends hours writing long strings of letters then asking us what she's written with a delighted grin on her face

I know several children who learned to read by learning to write - one who was obsessed with something and proceeded to write millions of magazines (he called them) with stories about that thing.

Cute story! My nearly 5 year old does that too, he likes putting fridge magnet letters together and me reading them out. And he really likes having his own notebooks and pencils etc (pound shop is brill for that) which he fills up with pictures and words that he asks me to write out for him, or that he copies from his top trump cards etc. (One letter a page, a jumble of upper and lower case.) This is 100% him-led, sometimes he won't do any for ages, sometimes it's all the time.

He can sort of read a little, with loads of clues, but I'm not going to make any attempt to teach him for at least another year, unless he wants to.

Thanks everyone, HE does seem completely tailored to your child, which is fantastic. It would be good to work at her pace, without pressure.
A lot of the girls in her class are worried about their writing, worried that they are not as clever as another child and constantly scared of doing something wrong. I don't think this is healthy for 5 year olds at all. I'm lucky, Lucy dosn't seem to give a toss about anything.
It's not a good environment for her though, I don't think.