Are we crazy - buying a project

[BedHelen]

Little back story. We are 36 3 little ones and looking at a project house this weekend. We are first time buyers and have a good budget for house and area but finding a detached property with 4 bedrooms in our area is upwards of 400k. We have a combined income of 112k. The house we are looking at is 315k and been up for some time. It is the worst house on the best street. I have no details about the house but we would need to convert the garage straight away to make it 4 bedrooms. Everything else we would probably wait a couple of years. Eventually we would want to knock the kitchen diner though and put a new kitchen in, nothing flash just a small simple new kitchen. The house is detached and overlooks beautiful fields. Are we mad? Children are now older so no childcare fees or time off work planned.

Could you live in the house as it is without doing anything except the garage if needed? I. E. Is it actually a project house or does it just need decorating?
Will you move in and live in whilst the garage is being done? Do you know how much it will cost, how long it will take and whether you need permission to the convert the garage?
How much can you save per month to do renovations/ maintain the house?

Go for it !

Do you have the money and time to do the work?

A garage conversion to a bedroom is like £18-£25k as it has to be strictly fire safe adhering.

We did a kitchen renovation, replaced rotting floor, new ceilings in extension, rewired extension, added a bathroom, replaced roofs and redecorated/re-carpeted/LVT half the house, it took 3 months so on top of the costs we also had to pay 3 months rent so we weren't living their as the works happened (would have been impossible).

We worked on it everyday ourselves as well as a full team of workmen. There is still things we haven't fixed yet (like the surprise damp we uncovered). The works we did didn't require extra planning, structural changes (only added walls, didn't remove any) or turning non-habitable spaces into habitable spaces either which can make things much harder.

We are viewing it Saturday so I am unsure currently on age of boiler, if it would need rewiring etc It just looks like it hasn’t been decorated since the 60s. We would live in it while doing the work. We would have savings to complete the garage before we move in due to it being cheaper so less money required to buy it. We are really busy people but now our kids are getting older I feel like I need a new focus, I am one of those people who have to have something on the go. We don’t have any credit so monthly we could probably save 2.5k towards works. The kitchen we would have to wait but my husband gets a substantial bonus in a few years time so I think we would try and just get by!

Honestly, if it’s been on the market for a while every builder has already decided it’s not worth their investment.

If you love the house then by all means go for it. But material costs keep rising, labour costs keep rising and if you don’t have more than adequate funds available you could well end up living in a wreck for many years while you save and spend.

Unless, it really does just need a decor refresh!

I would get a builder to go round with you and give you a realistic ball park figure of what you would need to do to get the house as you want it to be. With 3 small children even if you have the capability and capacity to do work yourselves, it’s unlikely to happen. We moved into a doer upper last year, I’d say our renovation (no extension or structural works other than removing one wall) has cost twice what we estimated and took twice as long. With older houses you never know what you will find and it’s often cheaper and better to fully replace plumbing, electrics etc than work around what is there.

Theres a strong chance it’s going to need full works.

In that case you’re looking at the best part of 100k before you get it completed or do any extensions.

We were a full Reno. Did a lot of work ourselves. 100k in I still have wires hanging out of walls and some rooms havent even been started. And that was on the cheap. 4 years on some places we are like no thats false economy and having to redo some bits as we go round decorating/ finishing now.

Basically as first time buyers I think you might be biting off more than you can chew.

Would have to see the house though. Could just be a paint job you never know.

This is risky - not because you have 3 young kids, that's doable. But what about money? Do you have a realistic idea of how much it's all going to cost? Would you also have 20% spare for unexpected expenses?
If it's the only way of affording a house you love in a good area, then I'd go for it - but you need to be realistic about money. You also need to have very clear priorities. Eg I would wait with the garage conversion if your kids are still little. I'd rather have a decent kitchen and living area.
Get a builder to go round with you to get an idea of what needs doing and how much it might cost, then add 20% on (itwas more like 40% in our case!).

We're 6 years into a reno of a French wreck. It's not been fun. We've had some bad experiences with builders so we're doing as much of the work as possible ourselves, not easy when we're both working full time.
I can't imagine trying to live in a big reno with children.

It’s easy to say you will convert the garage and the rest can wait, it doesn’t work like that, you need to look at the house as a whole, plumbing and electric will need to be ungraded and extended for a start to accommodate the garage conversion to make it a habitable room, this will affect the whole house, plus a house that hasn’t been touched since the 60’s may have asbestos so you may need to move out whilst that is being dealt with. Building costs are so much more expensive than a few years ago, 100k really doesn’t go that far in a full renovation. You really need to do your homework and be realistic about costs (probably double what you estimate) once you start renovating a house you can reveal a lot of issues that have to be dealt with that you didn’t expect, so be prepared for it to cost a lot more and take longer than you think.

@BedHelen
Eeesh.
Sorry, that's the sound I made reading your post.
Are you fully aware of building costs, materials cost and labour costs, like, seriously aware??? Post Covid lockdown and post Brexit aware????
I can guarantee you that by the time you spend the money you'll be charged to do what is needed on this house, you will have spent as much as what you would have spent to buy a £400,000 house needing no work.
I'm serious.
Someone upthread said up to £25,000 to convert a garage. And the rest! I've just received 3 quotes to convert our garage. Single garage. Sound and solid condition. Quotes ranged from £38,000 to £45,000.
When I told my builder friend, he said £38,000 quote is cheap, proceed with caution as cheap usually means poor quality job. He's saying £38,000 single garage conversion is now considered CHEAP by today's costs!!!
I've also just been quoted £40,000 to build a 3 x 3 metre porch over my front door.
Building costs have gone insane over past 4 years.
To the point where I'm now scratching my head wondering how anyone is affording to pay for their building works.
8 years ago I'd have said yes, go for it, really exciting project!
Today's building costs? No.
You will have to use as much money to fund the renovation costs as it would cost you to buy a more expensive ready to live in house.

Tbh we have lived in Reno with two babies! It is doable and they don’t know any different. And we were lucky with the layout we could separate off from the dust/work.

That’s not the thing that is making me worried about this for OP. It’s first money and second no house experience.

If you’re going to do this OP; then forget about kitchens, bathrooms and extra bedrooms etc. These are the quicker fixes and really you can just pick a number for the first two. 20k+ for the kitchen by the time you get new floor and move services. 5k+ for a small family bathroom if you shop around.

These aren’t the things that are expensive or going to be time consuming or difficult to do. You need to look at the bones of the place. Windows are a killer cost, doors too. Wall and ceiling condition. Roof. Water ingress or damp. Woodworm. Electrics, radiators and heating. Brickwork. Floors. All that needs to be done before you even think about kitchen, bathrooms and extensions.

"Honestly, if it’s been on the market for a while every builder has already decided it’s not worth their investment."

But that doesn't mean it's not a good idea as a family home. The builder would be looking to make a quick turnover on the house family would just want a home and will presumably stay long enough that a rise in the market will benefit them.

I've renovated several houses and lived in them whilst I've done it. It's hard, often depressing, work. One step forward, two steps back doesn't do it justice really. I can do lots of the work myself which is just as well because tradespeople are hard to find and expensive. I use lots of reclaimed materials and shop around furiously, at charity shops/vintage fairs/reclamation yards/on line etc as new materials are ridiculously priced.

On balance I would say go for it because it's rewarding and can be very profitable, especially if you like a challenge, are prepared to roll your sleeves up and are very patient.

My top tips would be to look on renovation boards online. So much information on there about costs, jobs, pitfalls and technical stuff.

Get a good survey and take specialist trades people in to hone down on anything the survey throws up. If you have any concerns pre survey ask the surveyor to concentrate on those areas.

Don't use big trade firms. I've used local small firms that are found through recommendation. Cheaper (much cheaper), more reliable and more flexible. The best tradespeople I used were local retired older folk who just did a bit of work for beer money.

As people have already said have a look at the house then if you like it ask for a second viewing and take a builder along with you so they can give you an idea of how much your renovation plans would be.

If the house has been on the market for a while make sure you negotiate to lower the price based on what the builders tell you.

Your priority should be to check: wiring, boiler, plumbing, windows, the roof and checking for any asbestos. You want to sort out all the basics so you can make sure that you can live in the house.

You can do painting and decorating yourself and extend later on.

Have you done any DIY previously at all? Are your kids doing important exams any time soon?

2500 a month is a good amount to be able to save and you should be able to chunk through a refurb at a reasonable rate.

I would think if you move in and do the garage conversion, you could then save to get the electrics, plumbing and windows up to spec, check the roof and gutters for leaks (should take a month or less if you are organised and book them all at the same time) and then just work round a room at a time with a replaster and painting.

Hopefully you will get away with a new fuse board, boiler and a power flush, then you can add sockets and switch round radiators in each room as you do them.

Sounds like you have a healthy income to set aside for the works @BedHelen , however I totally agree with everyone saying that building materials and labour costs have risen dramatically over the past few years. Having a good idea of your proposed budget is great, but it will inevitably cost more. The only reason we've ever come in under budget is because of the sheer amount we do ourselves. But that can take years!

We took on a 3500 sq ft project house when we were a bit younger (30/31) with one DC (7 yrs old). It had been converted from a six bed to several flats in the 1960s with very little done since. Learning along the way we DIYed as much as we could including all plastering, tiling, fitting kitchen, 2 x bathrooms/2 cloaks etc, rebuilt victorian conservatory, landscaping etc. The whole process took 8+ years. Had new roof, heating system, rewire etc all professionally done and spent a total of around 100k back then (early noughties). God knows what it would cost now.

After that in 2012 we added a - mostly self-build - large, vaulted-ceiling kitchen extension to a different house. Our architect said it would cost 25k. Came in at 45k.

Our last (much smaller, but fairly major as we reconfigured whole floor plan) reno was done pre/post pandemic and the cost of everything skyrocketed during the project.

Nonetheless, we completed it for 80k and took on another in 2024. Budgeted 50k to do kitchen, bathroom and lootility, heating (boiler was from 1980s, no longer working), integral garage conversion (was originally part of the Georgian property), remove a couple of walls, add a wood burner.

We're currently half way through and have spent around 20k, but we can now DIY almost everything (except gas safe/hetas stuff) so the savings on labour are enormous. We also shop around to source high end fixtures for bargain prices on the likes of eBay etc.

I'd not discourage you, but go in with the expectation that it'll cost at least double your projections.

Yes you're spot on.

If builder or similar hasn't bought it then the asking price reflects what needs to be spent on it.

The project house we bought for a young family was structurally all ok and liveable as was. That is massively different from one that needs a re-wire or CH putting in or under pinning etc which imo isn't suitable for a young family to move in to.

I said that and its based of fact. My ILs just had it actually done (not quotes, actual cost of work) last year 18k. Maybe you live in an expensive area for trades but here in the north it wasn't anywhere near £38k.

All the works I listed above on my house was only £21k and we literally just finished and paid all outstanding payments last month so about as up to date on factual pricing as you can get.

Check out catchments of schools especially secondary depending on the age of your eldest.

field does that equal building land - check it out

My work was only supposed to take a builder 4-5 weeks well it’s 3 months and no sign of him! Takes far longer than the builders first estimate and they always run into issues too so add on 30% to any bill

Thanks so much for all the opinions! Some really sensible ideas! I need to have a look at it first and then establish works, second visit I will take a builder with us so we can get some costs. You’ve all been really helpful!