Ground floor flooring what am I missing?

[TiddleTaddleTat]

Ok I have trawled previous threads but not found the answer I need.
we have temporary flooring on all of the downstairs of our 1930s semi. slowly renovated over 4 years and have left flooring to last.
current plan is tiles in the kitchen and conservatory (potentially with UFH though would need to be electric I think - both concrete floors).
want a hard floor in the open plan living / dining room which currently has the unfinished / badly finished and draughty floorboards.

dont want LVT , laminate or bamboo due to formaldehyde off gassing / eco impact.
engineered wood is looking like a possibility.
is it worth insulating under the floor or putting in UFH in those rooms if they already have central heating?

for the tiled rooms mentioned above neither currently have any heating.

budget is £5000 for the whole ground floor - about 50sqm. what should I be considering in order to make this most cost effective? Can do it in phases if the budget isn’t going to stretch to all at once.

thanks

Should have said it’s important we do it once and are trying to avoid having to lift flooring to make changes, eg. Insulating underneath if worth it, UFH etc. Have had it rewired recently and everything still v accessible with currently setup. Thanks

I wouldn’t bother with electric UFH, it’s very expensive to run and only economical for small areas used for short periods (eg bathroom).

I would avoid tiles without UFH, they will be very cold in winter.

Therefore wood, laminate, LVT are your best bets so if you’ve ruled out the latter it’s down to solid or engineered wood. It will come down to what you can get for your budget. Avoid herringbone/chevron as much more costly to lay.

How are you going to get heating into the rooms without any, if concrete subfloor is already down? Can you still run pipes there for radiators?

We are in a 1950s build with a solid concrete floored extension.

Yes it has been worth insulating under the suspended wooden floors in the original house. We have solid wood flooring on top of those so no UFH, but don’t need it.
In the extension we have engineered wood with UFH - but it’s not been on this year as it is so very expensive to run, especially for the area - about 20 sq m. There are radiators run off the boiler too though.

I do have UFH in the bathrooms under tile, which is much better for thermo conduction, and I keep that on over the winter as otherwise the tiles are very cold.

For reference we are in NE Scotland - in the hills, so we do get cold.

Yes forgot to say, insulation is always worth it!! Especially with heating costs now.

@minipie
thanks for your thoughts! The conservatory is about 10sqm and as it gets muddy coming to/from the garden I’ve got my heart set on tiles … I really don’t like LVT and wood won’t be practical in a room with so many changes of temperature. We are about to get the polycarbonate roof replaced for a solid fibreglass covered one.

how much work is insulating under floorboards? I worry about how disruptive it will be to lift the floorboards and out insulation under. It’s our main living space. When I’ve looked at energy savings trust etc I thought underfloor ground floor insulation was not one of the most cost effective types but may have got that wrong and should re check .,, for reference we still have half of the loft eaves not insulated and cavity walls with degraded foam insulation.

we are doing windows hopefully this year as they are really poor atm.

@Timeforachangeisitnot thank you, that’s really helpful too. We are also in a cold and windy area and with energy prices as they are think we need to be smart about what we put in. Not only for keeping warm but also keeping cool in the summer. Can you share with me the solid wood you put over your insulated floors? This would be my ideal option but likely very much out of budget.

i am not at home today, but will see if I can find the spare box tomorrow and let you know. We were having work done and my builder send me to his wholesaler. It wasn’t Karls but something like it.

Is cork flooring an option? Lots of lovely colours available. We had it in a previous property and it was brilliant - warm, sound dampening, easy to clean. Can't remember how much it cost although I know it wasn't cheap. We installed it ourselves to save money and because it was a fairly small space.

If you have environmental concerns then electric UFH isn't the way to go - it burns through electricity at an alarming rate and will cost a fortune.

Bamboo is surely more environmentally sound than wood? I'd go for that. We've had it down for 12 years - no maintenance needed, very hard wearing, looks as good as new, feels lovely underfoot. I wouldn't look at anything else if I was putting a new floor in elsewhere.

If you're going to lay engineered wood boards on top of old floorboards, you can go for really good quality insulative underlay underneath the new flooring but on top of the old. Would be interesting to compare the u-values with insulation placed under the existing boards.

It you take the floor up to insulate you can put wet UFH in with metal plates which spread the heat. We have if and it works very well. No extra radiatora needed.

Ah brill thanks for all these ideas!
@Timeforachangeisitnot that would be amazing, thank you. I have no idea where to start with wood flooring and whether it is possible in our circumstances.
@CushionsandThrows we love cork flooring and previously had it in our little kitchen, but struggle with the brown shades, I haven’t seen much in terms of colour variety. Do you know where we can pick up more colourful options? It is lovely and warm…
@ReviewingTheSituation bamboo was the front runner but then I found out about the formaldehyde glue used and was put off. It also seems to scratch quite easily when we’ve tested scratching in the samples but I’d sooner choose this than laminate. Eco credentials and off gassing/health concerns are both big considerations for us. There is no perfect option, but I guess putting in something that we hope to last 10+ years would be most eco rather than needing to replace or change sooner.
@DivorcedAndDelighted thanks -good idea - I will see if I can get some U value info and can make proper comparisons. I think the cold floor situation is mostly down to drafts rather than actual insulation required, if that makes sense. Its true that decent underlay might solve most of the issue without the hassle and cost of insulating underfloor. Energy saving trust indicates quite a high outlay for relatively low yearly saving in terms of bills.
@Geneticsbunny thank you, I get the sense that UFH is probably only worthwhile if it’s the wet stuff. Can you do this over concrete that is already laid? If not we may need to rethink other sources of heat in those rooms. Maybe an infrared heater in the conservatory.

Wicanders have a decent selection. Lots of brown tones but a few silvery and cream/white tones too.

Also Siesta Cork and Bricoflor might be worth a look.

If the concrete floor already has insulation in then you could just lay pipes on top but you would need to add the depth of the concrete plus ufh pipes plus floor covering so at least 5 cm. Even if you just do the other floors it is still worth it. We hardly use our upstairs heating now we have ufh on the ground floor.

I really regret my tiled kitchen floor. So easy to drop things from cupboards/fridge and crack one. The cracks then travel and it looks a mess. It's also cold. The grout also gets mucky around the food prep areas.
Have UFH in bathroom with tiles. Great getting out of the shower onto a warm floor and easy to steam mop.

@CushionsandThrows thanks for these recommendations - I’ve had a look and Bricolor in particular has a great range of shades and surface designs, what looks like a laminate effect on cork - will order some samples.
@Geneticsbunny ok that is really helpful, I think we will have to rule out the wet ufh as it will all be retrofitted and we already have a lot of heating down here just not in the kitchen and conservatory. From a bit of reading it seems a really bad idea to put any permanent heating in the conservatory due to all the glass.

@stepfordwifey that’s true, I am also pretty clumsy…!! We currently have cheap roll vinyl in the (tiny) kitchen as a temporary measure and while it is OK I want something a bit more permanent looking. Brown cork in here previously really darkened the space.
Perhaps could go with tiles in the conservatory, and the same floor across the kitchen/dining/living room. Of the options discussed so far it would needs to be something very water resistant so rules out wood or engineered wood I think.
gah, it’s a minefield!!

Engineered wood, but good quality costs more than your budget I'm afraid (just spend £10k on two thirds of your sq ft in a 30s semi)

You have room thermostats with UFH so it only comes on when the air temp gets low enough (temp set by you). The conservatory would be on a different loop than the other rooms assuming there are doors between the kitchen and the conservatory?

This article on insulating under floors is good, just in case you haven't seen it - https://www.homebuilding.co.uk/advice/insulating-suspended-floors

I put quilt insulation under floorboards once, but managed to access through crawl space underneath. It went badly - rats set up home in some parts of it, and in others it sagged down due to me not battening it in properly. I didn't notice that much difference either. In another area I just did the engineered wood floating floor on top of floorboards with decent underlay between the two, and for me that seemed to do just as much good - probs mainly through stopping draughts as you mentioned.

Re your conservatory, again you sound clued up so probably know, but an unheated conservatory which has doors between it and the main house is an insulation benefit as it acts as a buffer space between house and outside. I think like the sun rooms in the passive house concept. But if it is heated then it's an energy drain. Ditto if it can't be blocked off.

Hi TiddleTaddleTat- the flooring we have is Berry Alloc Parquet - when I googled it I didn’t see a UK distributor, but we laid it about 10 years ago now.

We got it from a local wood floor distributor via the builder, so it’s worth checking locally.

The engineered floor for the kitchen/diner we got in the same place and it was pretty reasonable as it was end of line. So always worth checking that out too.

Thanks so much for everyone’s recommendations and ideas. I am going to follow up each one.
@DivorcedAndDelighted I didn’t realise that an unheated conservatory could be an insulation benefit but that certainly makes sense. We do have french doors to the conservatory that we have draft proofed and they have heavy curtains over in winter.
@Timeforachangeisitnot thank you, I have found a local solid wood supply/fit outfit and will go and see what can be done. I feel I have exhausted all of the local flooring showrooms and have only found a narrow range of the usual LVT, laminate, carpet, roll vinyl, some engineered wood.
I guess there will need to be some compromise somewhere!! Probably it will come down to energy efficiency - replacing the old timber DG (not original) windows, all the downstairs flooring, and replacing the leaking conservatory roof are all competing for top space this year before next winter. I suppose of those the flooring is the most cosmetic and least urgent. We have lots of carpet scraps etc down at the moment. Still, I just want it all done !!

Cork samples arrived and … too soft. The laminate finish ones aren’t quite what I expected (although to be fair I think I am expecting the moon on a stick at this point !!)
however, just seen quickstep cascada linked on another thread - waterproof engineered wood
https://www.quick-step.co.uk/en-gb/hardwood/cascada

sounds too good to be true? As far as I can see no vinyl … pricey and would push our budget a bit… but if it could remain in place 10+ years then perhaps worth it.

I am going through the same process and keen to make eco choice as well. Have you looked at this?https://www.colourflooring.co.uk/products/camada-corka

They are cork planks and as hard as laminate but sustainable.

I also order Bricolor and the Corka planks are harder I think (although I've lost my samples somewhere in the house!)

@Jeevesnotwooster i have those samples! I like them.., although the texture feels like it would be a bit of a dirt trap (this was our experience with cork flooring previously) and it’s not a colour I would choose. Can be trickier to find installers too, cork is pretty unusual where I live unfortunately. I’m going to keep this in mind though