Long haul flight to Japan - Air China

[Curlybrunette]

Hi everyone,

Has anyone flown long haul with Air China?

I'm looking at holidays for next year and an unbelievable deal has come up for Japan, but the flights are with Air China which is why I think it's so cheap.

I've had a look and the reviews are pretty dreadful!

Would you do it, we'd be flying from London via Shanghai, so it's a long time flight.

Any advice would be much appreciated :-)

My partner is the same height and has the same problem! We took our 10 month old on the Japan trip and sat in the bulkhead seats for the bassinet and he had much more legroom there so would definitely recommend trying to pay for more legroom if it’s an option

Friends went in Air China last year to Japan- said it was fine. They had a 2 day stop over in Beijing on the way which they said was great and broke up the journey.

Hey,

Thanks for looking, I'm going googly eyed looking at so many options.

I've been looking at Skyscanner and the Exoticca website for packages and I've managed to get the same trip, from Manchester for £600 more, but still the same number of nights.

I can get Ethiad flights from Manchester for about £720 each (into Osaka and out of Tokyo) and then book everythnig else seperately but once I've added in the hotels, bullet trains and a couple of trips included in the Exoticca deal I'm not saving a lot and I do like a travel agents protection on more complicated holidays, I do book seperately but at times like a good bit of ABTA protection!

I'd fly Cathay Pacific. Hong Kong based. Notably Cathay Pacific do not fly through Russia.

And whilst I wouldn't be worried about Russia shooting down a Chinese aircraft (not likely) if there was any emergency stop for other reasons that would be a problem for some people for security reasons.

With the situation with Ukraine also escalating ATM with Ukraine hitting Russia a lot more with drones and threats to Britain over drones so if you did have a technical issue and forced landing, it wouldn't be a great place to find yourself.

I know a few friends who absolutely can no go to Russia including airspace due to work. Even transiting through China/Hong Kong has special instructions - they can't take their phone or laptop. Even if they stay completely airside throughout.

The alternative route is to go over Turkey and then through a pretty narrow gap between issues in the middle east and Russia through Armenia and Azerbaijan which has airline restrictions on it (not least because of the volume of traffic using the gap currently but also due to issue with Iran and their mutual border dispute).

You can check exact flight paths here
https://www.flightpaths.com/

If you work in tech / civil service / any other occupation which might be remotely sensitive, you should check your employment contract before you book as some will have explicit restrictions on travel routes including transit which not everyone is fully aware of.

This is why Air China can undercut almost every other airline rather than being a 'budget' airline simply because fuel costs are significantly lower.

Their legroom is comparable to other long haul airlines from the UK. (I believe it's similar to BA long haul). And yes this bigger than the budget carriers that fly out the UK.

Check the inflight entertainment though as not all routes provide it - this seems to be one of the biggest differences for most travellers on Air China.

So the three things you are saving money on is security considerations, fuel costs and entertainment.

There is no evidence for airline safety being compromised in terms of aircraft maintenance - it has a joint maintenance agreement with Lufthansa.

Personally Air China is a no for me - again that will drive the price down as it's ultimately about demand too. I get why others would go cheap but certainly ATM, I'm not sure I'd fancy that Russian Airspace.

my dp with air China two months ago, all was fine and the service and food was good.

And yes Cathay Pacific via Hong Kong come out similarly priced from Manchester compared to other airlines.

he chose to change his return flights because of the typhoons and they didn’t charge him anything to do it

I've done quite a few Exottica holidays & if your concerned about air china, they will quote you the same holiday but with different airlines. Obviously it's likely to be more expensive but may not be too much

@RedToothBrush - That's a fascinating website. The map view really illustrates how much airspace is now restricted for European travellers and how narrow the open gap is between Russian and Iran.

Might be worth pointing out for those of a nervous disposition and looking at routes taken is that the main reason European carriers are not overflyng Russia is economic sanctions, not because there's a significant safety of flight issue.

In addition any possible risk of interference is reduced by Chinese and Russia being buddies ATM.

The one area where a European might perhaps have issue is one RedToothBrush mentioned - personal admin in the unlikely event of diversion to a Russian airport, but hopefully with China and Russia being buddies even that might not be a major problem.

Yep.

If you get diverted to a Russian airport for technical reasons, it's potentially a problem because one of the effects of economic sanctions is a shortage of aeroplane parts in the country.

Western airlines would be unable to send/store replacement parts there due to the sanctions. They can not land there in the event of an emergency as a result and they just don't have the infrastructure to support the aircraft. The best case scenario is a very long wait. The worse case is impounding of said aircraft, detention of passengers and refusal to allow repair team/replacement aircraft to land.

Chinese airlines will be able to have their own supplies and network without these issues as they are still regularly flying in and out without restrictions.

For the most part there isn't much of a risk of being actually shot down in Russian Airspace.

"I do book seperately but at times like a good bit of ABTA protection!"

Totally understand this. It all depends on your appetite for risk. Although ATOL and ABTA protection only kick in if they go bankrupt. They don’t cover any of the things that travel insurers often do, like cancelled flights, medical expenses or lost luggage.

"...the Exoticca website for packages"

I've never heard of them before so just did a quick search and they are doing some very cheap deals at the moment. Twelve days in Japan for £1,799 during the first half of June and £2,349 on dates in the second half of June.

For example, leaving Saturday 12th June is £1,799 and leaving a week later Saturday 19th June is £2,349.

Just for others reading this, the itinerary appears to be four days in Tokyo, then a day travelling to Kyoto.

Two days in Kyoto and then a day travelling to Hiroshima and a day travelling to Osaka.

Then there is one full day in Osaka before returning to the UK.

When it comes to hotels, they say:

"Allocation depends on availability and seasonality, so you may be assigned any hotel from our selection."

They do sound as though they are just picking up cheap deals and then passing them on to customers.

Might I suggest that you also post on this thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/holidays/5482261-japan-planning-thread-3

There are a number of posters there who have been to Japan a number of times and you will likely get some helpful advice as to what to do.

.

You might also wish to consider their land-only prices (ie without airfares - these would still be covered by ABTA but not by ATOL).

There are a number of Facebook groups relating to Exxotica.

For example this from last year from the group "Exoticca Travel Experience":

"Looking for advices…
Have anyone booked « Land only » with Exoticca? Wondering if it’s worth it or not?
It’s for 2 adults and our 13yo (counts as an adult)…interested in the Japan tour."

There were a number of replies giving different experiences. One person said:

"I have booked three land only tours with Exoticca. You will need to call them direct to get the land only price. I found the price difference on these three was worth me booking separately. One I enquired about they were only giving off £100 so it wasn't worth it. "

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1986141971735780/posts/2589622298054408/

A useful site to look for flights only from the UK is https://www.kayak.co.uk/

However, I will just use that for searching for flights and then I will book directly with the airline.

We did this exact route in October. It was fine, I’d fly with them again. We had two and a half hours in Shanghai in the way there which was about right and then four on the way back which felt like a long time but was the middle of the night.

The food was fine, mostly some meat with rice and then desert. We got food on the shorter Shanghai to Tokyo leg as well as a couple of meals on the longer leg. We took plenty of snacks too.

In seat entertainment, with a fair few films and shows in English and also the option to watch Chinese films with English subtitles. No inflight screens between Shanghai and Tokyo, but it was only about 4 hours. We made sure we had stuff downloaded to watch on our tablets.

Picked our seats when booking, ample baggage allowance each, not a huge amount of leg room but definitely more than Ryanair. The staff didn’t all speak English, but enough did for it to not be an issue.

I wouldn’t hesitate to fly with them again. I wouldn’t worry too much about reviews on somewhere like trip advisor, you only get the extremes, very few people review to say something was just fine.

Yeah, done it a few times and it’s fine. Not as good as Cathay, Singapore, Qatar etc (as in food, service and other passengers are generally worse) but long haul economy is pretty bad regardless and tbh Air China is on par with most of the BA flights I’ve taken ie they are both grim but at least Air China is cheap!

UV exposure From altitude they fly at Egyptair are the same

Well thanks to @Another2Cats having a look at for different options it's set me off on another search and after comparing everything it's worked out cheaper for me to go from Manchester if I book everything seperately then the original Gatwick trip so that's it, I've booked!

Next June from Manchester with Ethiad.

The cheaper price included extra legroom seats as well :-)

I'M GOING TO JAPAN!!!

I'll move on to the Japan planning thread now, thanks so much everyone for your input and advice.

Thatr's a new one on me.

There's sometimes been concern expressed over the years about the amount of exposure flightcrew (i.e. pilots) get on the flightdeck but of course they potentially get far far more exposure to daylight in flight than passengers ever get.

In my years of flying I never heard of a blinds down policy to protect passengers from UV ..guess there's always a first time.