Critique my California Road Trip itinerary please.

[SanFranAndCali]

We are looking to book a three week trip to California in May or June.
Having made a list of ALL the potential places we'd like to go, it's a lot. Chat GPT tells me it's doable and some travel websites do show all of these places in this order as a 21 day itinerary, but I am wary of coming home exhausted, feeling like we've just rushed through everwhere and ticked it off a list, rather than really enjoyed it.

That said, it's a road trip and the scenery en-route is the main purpose of the holiday so perhaps there's little point in spending too many days in one place if the journey is more exciting than the stop off places, if that makes sense?

At the moment the itinerary is looking like this:

Day 1: San Francisco. Arrive in the middle of the day, spend that afternoon and evening, plus the whole of the following day, then collect a car and leave around lunchtime on day 3, for Carmel.

Carmel by the Sea and Monterey, do whale watching. Would probably stay in Carmel rather than Monterey.

Drive to Big Sur - is this a place to hang around or is it just the drive through that's lovely?

Drive to Santa Barbara with an overnight stop in either San Luis Obispo or Cambria

Santa Barbara - how many nights?

Malibu

Santa Monica (just outside LA)

Palm Springs and Joshua Tree NP - how many nights?

Grand Canyon (into Arizona)

Bryce Canyon (into Utah)

Las Vegas (into Nevada) as a convenient overnight stop only, I'm not that fussed about spending time in Vegas, but DH thinks if we are passing though it we may as well stay for a day or two and see it properly. I'm not so sure.

Death Valley

Drive up the Eastern Sierra via Mammoth Lakes to arrive at the eastern side of Yosemite National Park.

Yosemite (2 nights or 3? We aren't intrepid hikers so would probably just do a guided tour of the main highlights and some light walks, rather than going it alone like proper serious types. If we are in a nice lodge or hotel with a spa it might be a good place to get some down time and be out of the car for a bit.)

Napa Valley / Sonoma.

We think this will be civilised and beautifully scenic, with lots of nice place to eat and a relaxing end to a hectic holiday. But we aren't wine buffs and can't take crates of wine home on the plane anyway, so is it an unnecessary stop?

Back to San Francisco to fly home.

This is a lot. It doesn't include Lake Tahoe, or San Diego. I'm getting FOMO about those but don't want to overload us. Should I be omitting somewhere on the list in order to do Lake Tahoe or San Diego instead?
How long would you recommend staying in each place? Which are the places to just drive to, see for a day, or even just grab dinner, sleep then move on?

I really don't care about any of the tourist attractions in LA and the whole place sounds like a dump. Is it even worth stopping in Santa Monica if we aren't going into LA at all? What's Santa Monica like?

We are middle aged and have no children with us. We like beautiful gardens and desertscapes, iconic architecture, stunning scenery, artsy communities, charming towns full of character, great food. More food. Casual and laid back rather than flashy.

We like to see the coast but we don't care about having beach time per se. We hate anywhere brash and loud and full of party animals.

Any advice appreciated.

we did a similar trip and flew into LA and styled in Sant Monica. Drove up coast to SF and then drove down via yesomite to Las Vegas and flew out of there. High light was Death Valley and the (Getty?) museum in Malibu. Your route looks like a lot of driving. Could you take the train to some places.

I did wonder about whether any of it was worth doing by train. No idea how good the rail network is. If any of the routes are particularly scenic by train then I'd consider it, but it's the lugging our 3 weeks worth of luggage around that puts me off a bit.

What did you think of Santa Monica as a place to stay?

My goodness that’s an awful lot! Who’s going? This is what we did with DD 14 a few years ago.
Fly into SF stay 1 night collect car and drive to Yosemite.
Stay in Mariposa for 2 nights.
Drive to Vegas and stay 2 nights
Drive to Grand Canyon stay 2 nights
Drive via Flagstaff 1 night, back to the coast Morro Bay stay 1 night.
Drive back up to SF staying 1 night in
St Luis Opisbo - DD had surf lesson here and loved it! Cambria.
Then last 3 nights in SF before flying home.
Many places need to be booked at least a year in advance - accommodation near Mariposa and Grand Canyon in particular. The drive up to SF via Big Sur could have been stunning but the sea mist hid it all!
We stayed in a variety of hotels, but lots of them have laundry rooms so you can do your laundry as you go. We all stayed in 1 room - most rooms have 2 huge double beds so it’s doable even with 4 adults. All that being said, we spent an absolute fortune - car hire, eating out, all costs ££££s

I used to live there and have been to many of those places. There’s too much to see in a single trip, so you’ll be missing some good stuff whatever you decide.

Personally I’d prioritise San Diego over San Francisco, and make sure to see some of the Missions (pp suggested San Luis Obispo which is good).

Grand Canyon is high stakes in that it can be foggy and then you may as well not be there (was our experience!).

But you’ll have a great time whatever you pick - enjoy!

That’s just horrible! Las Vegas? Why go to Nevada and Arizona? Stay in California. Drive north to south down highway one. You obviously just like rushing around and not enjoying anywhere. Carmel is great for a relaxing couple of days. All the way Doreen the coast there are small towns and big attractions like Hearst Castle. We like Santa Barbara. Again, worth a stop as is Santa Monica. I’d try and see the Getty Villa at Malibu too. Your itinerary is dreadful really. Slow down. Stay in California and take time to see wildlife, wineries, museums and cultural sights. Far more of a holiday.

@OhDear111- nothing like telling them straight lol

I don't like rushing around and not enjoying anywhere, hence why I asked if it was too much! Again, if you'd read properly you'd see I have zero interest in Vegas, but we would need to stop overnight somewhere en route from the canyons to Death Valley before heading north to Yosemite, so it's the natural place. This itinerary is full on, yes, but not considered OTT for a 21 day trip. Many tour companies do it. I'm just not sure if I want to try to do cram all that in, hence the questions.

But I can't shake the feeling that I may only be in this part of the world once and I might regret it if I don't go and see at least one of the canyons. Hence why I am asking for opinions from people who've done it. These things always sound more feasible on paper than they are in practice.

I'm leaning towards forgetting about San Diego and Lake Tahoe (not in the itinerary currently anyway) and omitting Napa Valley at the end.

Looks great. Carmel was my favourite place on the trip

I'm not overly fussed about San Francisco but as we'd be flying into it and we will be jet lagged it makes sense to stop for a day or so at least. What is there to see and do that's great in San Diego? When I googled it seemed to be zoos and theme parks, more geared to families than couples.

I actually agree with this, having lived in California in the 90s. It’s truly a wonderful place, with the Pacific Ocean, mountains, vineyards, Missions, museums. If you can possibly see a desert sunrise, get up early to drive to Palm Springs, it is so worth it. Nevada and Arizona can be scruffy and it’s all desert.

I've done this twice, once without children & once with.
1st time: flew to LA. Couple of days there. Flew to Las Vegas & did Grand Canyon by plane from there. Flew back to LA. Drive up to Yosemite, then to Nala Valley & Tahoe & back to SF. At least I think that's what we did, it was a long time ago. Also visited Hurst Castle on the way up.
2nd time: flew to SF, drove to Yosemite, then LV, then ?Williams, Arizona, where we got the train to the grand canyon. Then drove to LA, then back up highway 1 via Monterey etc. flew home from SF.
Both of those were 2 weeks. There was probably too much driving in the second one

Chat etc says. Not a real person. It’s ludicrous. I’ve been to most of those places but on several different holidays. It’s just ticking places off because chat says you can. Who plans like that?

A couple of logistics points: the road going into Yosemite from the east closes over ‘winter’ which actually means til May/June, see here https://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wroads.htm
also accommodation inside the park books up way in advance and is quite expensive for what it is. Probably only need 2 nights if you’re not fussed about hiking

And several well established tour companies also say you can. But clearly I am not so sure, hence the thread.

As I said, this is a long-list of ALL the places we'd like to see, in an ideal world. I am more than aware that it won't be very relaxing to do all of them. Which is why I was after people's opinions on the 'must sees' and where I can happily leave off.

I wasn't expecting anyone to get quite so angry about it as you seem to be though. Very strange. 😂

@SanFranAndCali I’m not a huge fan of San Diego and it’s really a beach stop. You don’t seem to want good restaurants, good shopping or relaxing at any stage. Los Angeles has the Getty Centre for example. It’s beautiful. There are beach areas with character like Santa Monica. What’s the point in not staying for a bit?

@SanFranAndCaliSFO airport is a good 40 mins drive south of the city centre, so if you're OK with driving after landing, I'd be tempted to hit the road south and head to the coast - you can be in Monterrey in under 2 hours (just up the road from Carmel)

You couls then consider having a day in San Francisco at the end - I would stay in Sausalito after visiting Napa and get the ferry across for the day.

Personally, I think I'd exclude Vegas, Grand Canyon and Bryce Canyon from this trip - the last 2 are magnificent but deserve a separate trip of Arizona and Utah national parks. Vegas is marmite - you might like it, many don't.

Lake Tahoe really isnt worth losing sleep over - great as a ski base, but not much else to it.

Based on your itinerary I would drop Arizona/Utah/Nevada and just concentrate on Cali. It's a lot of driving.
I would add Solvang to your itinerary, it's a little Danish town inland from Santa Barbara, very quaint, great wineries. Avoid Santa Monica, nothing special, perhaps a couple of days in the OC instead. San Diego is literally paradise (I got married there!).

I haven’t been to all of these places but have visited SFO and San Diego in recent years.

SFO - as you are flying in it’s worth a visit to see the Bridge but it might be foggy. I wouldn’t spend long in SFO though.

San Diego - Downtown is commercial but the USS Midway was interesting to visit. The beaches are fantastic but if you aren’t a lazing by the beach person it may not be for you. The Coronado hotel was also fun to see - a location for Some Like it Hot.

I would not go back to either city though as I think we have seen what they have to offer.

Bryce Canyon and Yosemite are beautiful. Bryce has really good trails which are fairly easy for non hikers. I would also go back to Hearst Castle, Big Sur and Carmel. I wouldn’t bother with Vegas.

I’ve done 3 California road trips and yours looks absolutely mental. You will be spending 4/5 hours a day every day in the car and moving hotel every 1/2 nights with that itinerary! Which isn’t the way to enjoy it! I’d be wanting 3/4 days in Yosemite alone!

I think what you’ve got there is 2 separate trips- it’s either the California coastal route- San Fran to San Diego OR you do Vegas and the National Parks. I would also consider flying into one city and flying home from the other- it usually makes flights cheaper and means you don’t need to repeat the whole drive again.

An option

Fly to Vegas, 2 nights to get over jet lag, collect car/acclimatise

Drive to Grand Canyon, visit Hoover Dam on way. 2 nights- full day to enjoy Canyon.

Drive to Bryce Canyon- 2 nights to enjoy Bryce and Zion.

Zion to Death Valley, spend a night here to make sure you enjoy the viewpoint.

Death Valley to Mammoth Mountain- this is absolutely STUNNING drive, leave time to enjoy it. Stay 1 night Mammoth Mountain.

Drive Mammoth Lakes to Yosemite via the Tioga Pass, which is spectacular! Stay 4 nights in Yosemite, if you stay somewhere like Tenaya Lodge there’s a lovely pool here and it’s got a resorty feel so great for some down time.

Drive Yosemite to Monterey/Carmel- boring drive, takes about 4/5 hours!

2/3 nights in Monterey/Carmel- whalewatching takes all day, the aquarium is also nearly another whole day. Then there is the beautiful scenic 17 mile drive to enjoy the coast and Carmel is a gorgeous town to enjoy and has stunning beaches. Again, a place to not feel rushed.

Maybe stay an extra night here and do a day trip to Big Sur from your base in Carmel- it’s quite often closed for forest fires so not sure I’d book to stay there.

That leaves you 4/5 days to split between Napa and San Fran. Personally am also not a wino and think Napa is a day trip but there is absolutely bucket loads to do in San Francisco!

You version has a lot of looping around which mean A LOT of time in the car! Personally I think LA/Highway 1/Malibu/San Diego is a completely separate trip.

That's a lot of driving. Do you have any experience driving those kinds of distances/sitting in traffic for hours? Don't underestimate how long it can take to get from Santa Barbara to Los Angeles, for example.

I'd I were you I'd consider flying into Las Vegas and driving to the Grand Canyon/Utah from there and then fly to San Francisco. The drive to and through death valley and up eastern California will take forever. I'd leave it out. You can drive from San Francisco to Yosemite than make your way back and take the costal route south.

Consider overnighting in Moro Bay. Cambria is pretty but there really isn't much to do up there. SLO is inland and not that interesting, but it does have the Madonna Inn which is fun and kitschy.

If you aren't interested in San Diego stick around LA and drive/fly to Palm Springs. Joshua tree is not far from there.

I wouldn't bother making my way up California again you should fly out of one of the LA airports.

What makes you think I don't want good restaurants? The very opposite is true. If you know where I can find them then please tell me.

The Ghetty Centre iis already on my list as a potential place to visit, as is the Hearst Castle and some of the missions. When I said I wasn't interested in the attractions in LA, I meant Beverly Hills, Rodeo Drive, Hollywood Walk of Fame.

As for 'there are beach areas with character like Santa Monica, what's the point of not staying for a bit?' well my question was 'Is it even worth stopping in Santa Monica if we aren't going into LA at all? What's Santa Monica like?'

So the more friendly and helpful response would have been 'Santa Monica has loads of character, it's definitely worth staying there and even if you aren't fussed about LA overall, I'd recommend a trip to the Ghetty Centre.'

There. Not that hard, is it?

So helpful, thank you.

As PP said, your other option is to drop Las Vegas and the national parks out that way, it adds a LOT of driving time from California and is really it’s own trip!

In which I’d go one way, leaving San Fran to loop through Tahoe, round to Yosemite.
Head back from Yosemite to Monterey/Carmel, plot yourself a series of stops on the way down so Malibu/Joshua Tree/brief stop in LA, all the way down to San Diego, then I’d book a flight home from there!

Your itinerary does look exhausting (said kindly!). When we went I decided no one night stays so we wouldn’t be rushing too much. Ours was:

*Flew to San Francisco and Uber to hotel
*3 nights San Francisco
*Then picked up rental car from the city and drove to Yosemite
*3 nights Yosemite (Rush Creek Lodge which we loved. Yosemite was our favourite part of the whole trip)
*2 nights Monterey (stopping at Santa Cruz boardwalk for a few hours on the way) Did whale watching with Fast Raft in Monterey which was a highlight.
*Drove to Cambria (Drove via the famous 17 mile drive, and visited Point Lobos National park on the way for picnic. Drove through Big Sur area. The Pacific Coast Highway is incredible scenery the whole drive)
*2 nights in Cambria
*3 nights in Santa Barbara (the one place we stayed self catering so we could do all our washing)
*Drove to LA. (Went via San Luis Opisbo (or was that before Santa Barbara?!). Also drove through Malibu. Stopped to walk along Billionaires Beach and ate lunch at a place where fast and furious was filmed)
*3 or 4 nights 🤔 in LA near Universal. (did Universal, Warner Brothers Studios, a cheesy celeb bus tour and an LA tour where they took us to Walk of Fame, Santa Monica, Beverley Hills, the famous farmers market and Hollywood sign)
*3 nights at Disney Anaheim (did both parks)
*4 nights in San Diego to relax and unwind at the end (USS Midway was great)
*Flew back from San Diego

Our 3 teens loved it and it felt just right. No drive was too long and didn’t feel too rushed. Was a dream holiday booked for my 40th and we all had an amazing time.

If you want to drive DV - Yosemite over the Sierra Nevada you need to leave it until early June at the earliest, and even then the Tioga pass may well be closed.

I love Arizona - the idea it’s scruffy and all desert is laughable. It’s stunningly beautiful and amazingly varied.