Driving in Europe - car seat requirements?

[flatfootedfred]

DC are 140cm+, still using HBB car seats but thinking of getting rid of them now they are comfortably over 135cm and they are starting to complain bout comfort.

However, I’m considering some self-drive trips into Europe in the next couple of years where I know some countries require car seats up to 150cm - Germany and Italy being particularly relevant.

How likely is the 150cm rule to be enforced?

Next year I’m thinking of driving to a ski resort on the French Italian border - we will largely be driving across France but might dip into Italy briefly. Technically I guess that means they should be in a car seat but there’s no way DC would tolerate 12hrs driving across France in HBB for the sake of driving a few miles over the border.

And the following year we might drive to Germany - I expect the DC will be nudging 150cm by then but obviously can’t be sure what side of 150cm they will be.

Could you get non-HB boosters for these trips, perhaps second hand, if still needed?

If you are hiring a car, I wouldn't even entertain not using them.

If you were to have an accident you'd invalid your travel insurance AND your car insurance. So you'd be liable for both medical bills AND the cost of the car.

If need be your children will miraculously be able to tolerate this for the required time. It's not as if they are five. They are older children between 9 and 13 who you are capable of telling to wind their necks in and get the fuck on with it. Just tell them they don't get a choice and you are not prepared to take that risk, as it's the law.

It is not about whether it will be enforced or not.

If your children are over 12 they don't need a child seat in Germany. Under 12 and less than 150cm they do. If you ignore the rules and there is an accident you will pay of all/part of medical treatment depending on how much your negligence caused the cost. No insurance will cover this.

Are non-HB compliant? I didn’t think they were (though might well be wrong!)

It won’t be a hire car, it’s our own car and would be multi-country trips that take in countries with the 150cm rule.

It’s all very well saying suck it up but a 12 hour car journey with miserable uncomfortable kids doesn’t sound like much fun for anyone.

it’s a good point about insurance.

I think it is something I’d risk with a trip to the France/Italy border as we’re barely in Italy at all.

One would be over 12 by the point of travel, the other would not be (though ironically is the taller one so more likely to be over 150cm)

If its not fun for anyone, best not go on the trip then.

Yes, there are backless boosters that comply with R129 and are on sale. Older backless boosters can no longer be sold in shops as they aren't compliant, but they can be used if they are R44 compliant (and obviously if the child meets the specifications for the seat, but yours would).

It’s far better and cheaper for you all to fly there instead of driving. And why not hire a car at the destination?.

DD was in a HB seat until she was 150 cm in the UK, she just felt a lot more comfortable, the seatbelt was otherwise not right.

A 12 hour trip with the seat belt on the wrong position ist also uncomfortable and potentially dangerous.

for trips with a hire care we just had the booster seat, not sure what the current regulations are.

Ah I will have to investigate- I’d got it in my head that backless boosters weren’t compliant but if they are then that’s certainly worth looking into and feels more realistic than hanging on to the HBBs for the purposes of a couple of potential future trips.

I live in Germany, yes non high back boosters are compliant, even the old R44 ones are fine. It's just sales of new boosters need to be R129.

Extremely unlikely to get pulled over for it esp if child looks roughly close to the limit. An obviously young child with no booster you would get stopped for, although it's not that uncommon I see people driving very small children with no car seat at all so I don't expect this is a common occurrance.

DS1 had a police officer come and speak to them in school when he was near the end of primary (around age 9/10) to remind them all of the importance of wearing seatbelts and using booster seats. The policeman said if they are close to 150cm (say 145cm+) and don't use one occasionally, they will not be fined but that they should try to use one when it is available.

I’m going to have to trial some journeys without the HBBs - the DC are increasingly moaning about being uncomfortable on longer journeys which I assumed was related to out-growing the seats but they might not like the alternative either!

Don’t forget its also compulsory that you also need a warning triangle and hi-viz tabards in case you break down.
And also snow chains if you’re heading into the mountains in winter.

Italy, especially northern Italy, is not the place to be taking chances. Carabinieri are sent out in pairs to stop drivers randomly and give them a hard time for the tiniest thing. You could reduce that risk by not going over the border and staying in France.

Oh yes you do need the vests and first aid kit. And winter tyres if there is frost on the ground. I have no idea how you'd designate that from UK tyres. We always just asked the garage because we had no clue.

Look up how to do the "Rettungsgasse" as well :)

Thanks that’s really useful!

We’ve got all of these (except the snow chains, which yes we would need!) from previous trips.

Avionaut maxspace will be the most comfortable. Probably much comfier than on the cars seat

We have BubbleBum inflatable boosters for occasional use - for some reason I was under the impressIon they didn’t meet the European standard but I think they do? I’ve never felt they were up to much but they might do the job if we need something to fling in the car if we need to tick a box for a short foray from France into Italy.

We could look into a more substantial backless booster if we still need them for Germany if DC haven’t tipped 150cm by then.

But either way sounds like we can get rid of the HBBs now without kicking myself later.

Yes, bubblebums are R44 compliant so you could use those

There is essentially zero chance that the various details of the laws about child seats (which vary substantially from one EU country to another, because they all took the basic EU Directive and strengthened it, as they are allowed to do because they have Sovrintee™) will be enforced.

There is a whole industry in the UK dedicated to selling unnecessary stuff to people who are going on a driving holiday in Europe. There is (or used to be) a huge cardboard cut-out gendarme in the Eurotunnel terminal at Folkestone, making you think that you will be hauled off the motorway at the first junction after Calais and if you don't have a reflective jacket for everyone in the car you will be forced to pay a €10,000 fine before being deported. Said cardboard gendarme was still telling you that you needed two breathalysers in the car in 2017, even though France abandoned the whole idea in 2012.

Scary continental police. They have guns, you know.

It is all bollocks.

If your car seat setup works for you, drive with that. It will cost you more to adapt it for every country that you pass through than any possible fine, and a fine is an immensely unlikely outcome. No country's police have the time to pull over thousands of motorists looking for one minor booster seat height infraction.

(Source: I lived in, and drove all over, Europe for more than 30 years, 20 of them with DC in the back.)