EES system

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I feel really daft asking this but can't seem to find the answer online.

I'm just reading that experts say to give yourself 3-4 hrs when this comes in place and that we will experience the system when we first arrive in Europe. So I'm assuming the 3-4 hrs will be once you arrive. However what I can't work out is will there be the same delays at passport control (after security) at the airport you're departing from, or will these delays also be when you arrive back in the UK. I'm asking as we have a flight that leaves at 7am from Barcelona and I'm trying to work out what time to arrive at the airport.

I understand they may not even have it implemented at the time of our holiday but I still would like to understand it more .

I don't know but presumably as it's tracking both entries and exits, travellers have to be scanned when they leave the EU? So that would be on the EU side of the border. The media campaign doesn't seem to have covered that.

I don't see it mentioned on the official site either:
https://travel-europe.europa.eu/ees

No, I've not seen it mentioned anywhere for exiting. I've been searching for ages.

It's certainly described as an entry Entry/Exit system (my emphasis) and a lot of the text I've seen refers to it operating at external borders and border crossing points without specifying inbound or outbound or both.

I guess we will find out for certain as the system is tapered into use.

I expect the worst delays will be as non EU citizens, including UK citizens, register for the first time.

This will happen at the arrival airport for plane passengers. It will also start happening at different dates in different places.

After the first registration, where facial scans and fingerprints are taken, that data will be stored in the EES database for three years.

When leaving the country again, and whenever entering and exiting the EU during the three years the data is stored, travellers will only need to provide a fingerprint or photo at the border. That process shouldn't take as long as the first registration.

But I suspect we will have to wait and see exactly what the effect will be on waiting times and queues.

Not ideal when it's a long weekend and potentially up to 8 hrs total in an airport if the experts are to be believed!!

That 8 hours sounds excessive but who knows?

If you go through places with similar systems (e.g. the US) it's usually a case of that the first time you encounter the system the process is slightly protracted as your data gets captured for the first time, after that it's a v quick process.

I guess if Barca try to capture eveybodies data on every flight <>UK on day one you could see massive delays, but I think to stop massive delays our local (EU'land) airport is perhaps aiming for ? 10% per relevant flight initially and I've read Brittany Ferries are doing similar.

Some of my contacts are border crossing in the next few days so I'll maybe report back

I don’t think there will be any delays in Uk airports because we’re not one of the countries using it.

Presumably the first time you enter the EU it will take longer because they have to gather all the biometric info. This will then be saved. Exiting should then be straightforward.

Why would it affect re-entering the UK?

For info English language version of French gov guide to this;

https://www.immigration.interieur.gouv.fr/Immigration/La-circulation-aux-frontieres/The-pre-registration-devices-for-Entry-Exit-Sytem-EES

This is all being hugely over-hyped. Very few airports will apply EES to more than a handful of passengers on day one because their staff all have to get used to it too. Simon Calder reports here that at Madrid they will only apply it to one plane on the first day. The rest will be phased in over six months, with progressively more people being put through the biometric kiosks.

Don't worry about it — the only meltdown will be in the heads of the content providers at the clickbait media.

The thing is, even if it is being over hyped lots of people will listen to these people telling us to arrive 3-4 hrs ahead of time. I'm not travelling for another 6 weeks so it could be in place at my airport destination by then.

FWIW it was introduced at our local airport this AM...I don't know what percentage of UK bound passengers they were trying to capture but the airport have so far at least not told UK bound passengers they need to arrive early, nothing being flagged up by the relevant airlines.

Looking at the airport website a.few times today it looked like queues through outbound passport control were normal and no sign of major delays to any of the dozen plus UK bound flights.

Today there was no point in introducing it just for departures, as there was literally nobody with an EES entry record that could have been "undone".

Contrary to what I wrote previously, Madrid registered 1,819 passengers in the first four hours this morning — most of them probably coming from North America rather than the UK.

Today there was no point in introducing it just for departures, as there was literally nobody with an EES entry record that could have been "undone".

Good point,.shouldn't have delayed departures.. Looking at some text relevant to where I am they were offering those with the desire the option to register their details on the system today anyhow to maybe expedite their next entry...

There is an app which each EU country can choose to allow its visitors to use or not, which allows people to register their passport and facial biometrics before they land. That way you just have to add the fingerprints to an existing record, rather than create a new one. So far I think Sweden is the only country to say it will accept this app, but it's very early days.

EES has been hard to test, not at the software/kiosk level but in terms of how people will interact with it in real-world airport-stress environments.

EES also shows the degree to which the member countries have sovrintee™. When you enter "the EU", you really enter Spain, France, etc. The EU just asks those countries to keep track of your entry and exit dates, because your 90 days are spread across the 29 Schengen countries. Up to now that was done with stamps, and now it will be done electronically. But the decision of whether to let you in or not is taken by the member state where you arrive. The legal situation is very complex and a lot of the people who ought to understand it, don't (starting with the UK government delegation who returned from a meeting a few months back and announced "We have won the right for UK passport holders to use e-gates"... just embarrassing).

I’m travelling to the UK from France this week and it’ll be interesting to see how this pans out, as I have a feeling that the French will be insisting on this. It doesn’t affect me, as I’m a dual, but I am concerned about queues going back to Paris at St Pancras. Hoping there will be a separate queue for EU folk, otherwise it’s going to be a mess.

Dont forget this is a two-way street; the UK have introduced a visa scheme for non citizens entering. The Eurostar app has a very useful page which explains what’s needed depending on what document you have.

Dont forget this is a two-way street; the UK have introduced a visa scheme for non citizens entering.

It's not quite a two-way street... 🙏

The UK scheme that you are thinking of is called ETA. It's not actually a visa. It's a passport pre-registration like the US ESTA, explicitly for people who do not need a visa. (The difference between "a visa" and "pre-travel registration of your passport with a visa waiver" is important, but it takes quite a long time to explain why.)

EES has no UK equivalent because the UK does not take biometrics from people arriving with a visa waiver. However, next year the EU will also launch ETIAS, which is indeed a very close equivalent to the UK's ETA. At that point, the EU will have two sets of hoops to jump through (EES and ETIAS) while the UK will have only one.

It is important for UK people to understand that this is not "revenge for Brexit" — indeed, the UK was involved in the preliminary discussions around ETIAS and EES when it was in the EU, although since both concern the Schengen area, neither the UK nor Ireland had a big part in the actual design of the systems.

Of course, the knuckledraggers are already writing "What about the illegals hur hur hur" under every online story about EES, and will also write "We should do the same to the EU" under every story about ETIAS (which, as you noted, the UK is in fact already doing).

Further to @samarrange's comment:

"EES also shows the degree to which the member countries have sovrintee™. When you enter "the EU", you really enter Spain, France, etc. ... the decision of whether to let you in or not is taken by the member state where you arrive."

I found this article in The Independent which says that non-EU Eurostar passengers departing through St Pancras will be asked additional questions to comply with French entry rules, that go beyond EU rules for entry to the Schengen area.

Extract from the article:

"The questions will be posed at the kiosks used for registering passengers for the new digital border scheme. Eurostar says the questions are:

Do you have somewhere to stay?
Do you have a return ticket?
Do you have sufficient funds to support yourself during your stay (credit card, cash)?
Do you have medical insurance?"

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/eurostar-border-checks-uk-eu-paris-b2832727.html

I've been following Simon Calder quite closely on this. In an article shortly after that one, he noted that on the EES kiosks at Eurotunnel in Folkestone (where you are also entering France) those questions are not asked. So apparently it depends on which bit of the relevant French ministry the kiosk programmers were in contact with. In any case the chances of anyone being spot-checked are very slim indeed — nobody has the time, and France does not have a huge problem with indigent UK tourists coming for health tourism.

But yes, this does indeed underline that you are admitted by the member state. The EES system cannot actually veto your entry (unless you refuse to submit to it), because it just produces information for the national border officer to evaluate. But if it flags up "Wanted for a murder in Paris in 2022, presumed on the run since then" then your chances of getting past that national officer are presumably slim!

Of course, you can avoid the travel insurance issue — or at least, having to lie to an officer if you don't have it — by flying to Belgium (which does not have that requirement) and then getting the train to France. There are a few aspects of the way that the Schengen area runs, in terms of frictionless internal borders trumping almost everything, which suggest that the EU is not terribly interested in helping member states to enforce their own specific requirements.

I have also been watching with interest as flying to Madrid next week and know I am likely going to have to register when I land in Madrid but not sure what happens on exit.
Th UK GOV website says on exit you will need to have fingerprint scanned and passport checked...not sure where this happens ?

The UK GOV website says on exit you will need to have fingerprint scanned and passport checked...not sure where this happens ?

As you exit the country you're visiting. It's an entry and exit system, its aim is to track how long you stay in the Schengen area.

It's the equivalent of having your passport examined and stamped as happens now.

Just where you'd normally show your passport after security. Would you update this thread with your experience once you're home?

Hello, I wonder if any of you by now have experienced this and could give me any updates or info on how it works, especially at Barcelona airport:

• how long does it take?
• does it only add time when you arrive, and not when you leave? We arrive on Christmas Day and think it's unlikely they will be gathering data then, but I'm wondering if we need to arrive earlier for our departure flight a few days later.
• do we need to do anything beforehand, complete a form online, for example? It doesn't look like it, but worth a check.

Thank you all in advance.

We were in Barcelona a couple of weeks ago.

Had a really early flight so arrived in Barcelona and think we were the only plane load there. We all used the new machines except each of us had very different experiences. For me, a member of staff pressed all the answers to the questions so I don't actually know what was asked as she did it so quickly!! My husband and his dad answered them themselves. The 3 of us weren't asked for our finger prints. My husband's mum didn't answer the questions herself either but was asked for finger prints. We all then went through the egates and then to the desk where our passports were stamped. Came away all completely confused as to whether we are now registered or not!! All in all I'd say it took 10 minutes but that can't be guaranteed every time I'm sure. Haven't a clue what we'll need to do the next time we fly.

On the way home we gave ourselves plenty of time but the machines weren't being used so after security and then through to passport control took another 10 mins or so. Again a very early flight so not sure if this made a difference.

You don't need to do anything before hand. No forms etc.

I don’t suppose anyone has transferred in schipol recently. We are flying uk-Amsterdam-Germany and i understand that we will have to do it at the first port of entry into Schengen zone which is Amsterdam. Ok fine though our transfer time is only about 85 minutes or so. All sounds a bit tight to me. Can’t change the flight at this point.