Don't know if anyone here would plan a trip to Disneyland in the U.S.

[MsAmerica]

but, if so, this might be of interest.

Disney and the Decline of America’s Middle Class
By Daniel Currell

For most of the park’s history, Disney was priced to welcome people across the income spectrum, embracing the motto “Everyone is a V.I.P.” In doing so, it created a shared American culture by providing the same experience to every guest. The family that pulled up in a new Cadillac stood in the same lines, ate the same food and rode the same rides as the family that arrived in a used Chevy. Back then, America’s large and thriving middle class was the focus of most companies’ efforts and firmly in the driver’s seat.

That middle class has so eroded in size and in purchasing power — and the wealth of our top earners has so exploded — that America’s most important market today is its affluent. As more companies tailor their offerings to the top, the experiences we once shared are increasingly differentiated by how much we have.

Data is part of what’s driving this shift. The rise of the internet, the algorithm, the smartphone and now artificial intelligence are giving corporations the tools to target the fast-growing masses of high-net-worth Americans with increasing ease. As a management consultant, I’ve worked with dozens of companies making this very transition. Many of our biggest private institutions are now focused on selling the privileged a markedly better experience, leaving everyone else to either give up — or fight to keep up.

Disney’s ethos began to change in the 1990s as it increased its luxury offerings, but only after the economic shock of the pandemic did the company seem to more fully abandon any pretense of being a middle-class institution. A Disney vacation today is “for the top 20 percent of American households — really, if I’m honest, maybe the top 10 percent or 5 percent,” said Len Testa, a computer scientist whose “Unofficial Guide” books and website Touring Plans offer advice on how to manage crowds and minimize waiting in line. “Disney positions itself as the all-American vacation. The irony is that most Americans can’t afford it.”

For the whole article:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/28/opinion/disney-world-economy-middle-class-rich.html

And yet the parks are very rarely quiet, by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm guessing that any venue where the emphasis is on children would rarely be quiet.

We live 40 miles from WDW but we have family in several states. I work remotely with people all over the US and I don’t know anyone who has not been to a Disney park, but most people don’t go every year. And it doesn’t have to be expensive. There are ways to cut back on the cost. There does not appear to be a shortage of visitors from what I can see when I’m driving around in that area.

I don't think it's necessarily a matter of whether there's a shortage of visitors, but rather whether visitors get rooked and end up in over their heads.

Hm. I wonder if they're losing business due to international tourism to the U.S. dropping generally.

I know plenty of people who have never been. I have, a long time ago, but my kids haven't. They don't want to. It's gotten outrageously expensive, and we wouldn't enjoy it enough.

Now, the vast majority of people who I know who live local to one of the parks, especially Disneyland (much smaller) have been, because of course that's a much easier thing than planning a whole vacation around Disney.

I suspect what may end the parks is if Florida goes through with its plans to end vaccine mandates.

there are a lot of vulnerable kids go there for “make a wish” type trips. That will no longer happen.

we are all vaccinated but a) still risky, albeit a milder form of the disease generally if you do show symptoms and b) if they get outbreaks, how long before new variants?

as to the two tier experience, definitely. Hotels come with privileges, or used to. Then you can pay extra for fast passes etc.

We have family near WDL and took DD a few years ago and it was a strange day. It was terribly expensive, baking hot, and even with queue passes we spent a lot of time waiting.

What surprised me was the number of families walking around in super weird matching T-shirts: “Miller Family Disney Trip 2023:(insert name).”

From this I gather it is “magical” if you are totally bought in before you arrive. Your big experience and it’s going to be magical, and you’re all going to love it! Someone ordered, and convinced the entire family to wear matching t-shirts.

Or it’s just a super hot, expensive day. With lots of waiting around.

The proposed vaccine issue in Florida is scary shit.

UK schools don’t require vaccines. Why would the Florida law change scare away UK tourists?

Interesting speculation about vaccines, @Mustbethat!

Because in the UK you are offered the vaccines, and there is enough take up to just about maintain herd immunity.

the difference is private healthcare in the USA. I followed a debate recently and the issue is if vaccinations aren’t mandated, healthcare insurers will then be able to refuse cover. which means if you want your child vaccinated you will have to pay.

Take up will then be dependent on affordability. Multiple vaccinations over multiple children, the forecast is the take up rate will drop to below that needed to maintain herd immunity. So there will be outbreaks, no herd immunity means too high risk for medically vulnerable.

one of my kids has had every vaccination. There was a measles outbreak at school, and they became relatively mildly ill. While the vaccination prevented serious illness, it was still pretty miserable.

of course it may not happen.

@MustbethatThe uptake of the MMR is at its lowest point in a decade in the UK. I really can’t see Florida not requiring vaccines in exactly the same way as the UK does affecting people’s decision to travel.

The national average for MMR uptake is 93% in the US. It’s 84% in England…

So, a lot of poorer children may die. Or a lot of Trump supporters.

Yes because if you want your child to attend state school in the US (I think also child care settings), you have to have it vaccinated.

The 7% are home educated, excempt or private educated.

That will change rapidly, there are already reports of clinics and insurances refusing to vaccinate, currenlty the focus is on flu and Covid in the US but childhood ones will be soon a private thing - if you find a provider.

84% is too low but still provides herd immunity.

Personally I think unless I am vunerable and don't have the jabs the non vaccination will make not a lot of differnce. I hated the idea of Disney already but US under Trump/Vance is not a place I will go anywhere at the moment.

So basically Disney has worked out they can make more money from being a luxury resort

They have then gone more up market to separate themselves from the countless competition

A lot like Louis Vuitton, BMW, Bentley.....
Etc

There is nothing wrong with that and no one is forcing you to buy a Disney ticket

There are countless other theme parks that are way cheaper than you can go to

(Disney is well out of my budget)

The ethos has changed. We went a few times as kids and we weren't rich but I remember walk on rides and even occasionally being allowed to stay on the ride as there was noone waiting. The fast pass system was great as well. It worked amd everyone has access.

Now people say if you can't afford Lightning Lane, you can't afford Disney because the queues are so long and Lightning Lane is very expensive when you buy one for all the family, multiple times a day, across a fortnight's holiday.

And I get it, it's cost a lot to go there so people want to get the bang for their buck, but it does mean longer lines and kills the magic for kids whose families can't pay. Which is exactly the opposite of what the parks were founded on based on the OP.

For measles you actually need uptake of 95% for true herd immunity. Right now Florida still requires the MMR as the state legislature needs to change the law to take away the requirement.

I honestly don’t think this will make a difference right now. For many years, California had poor vaccination rates until the legislature abolished all non medical exemptions. A lot of hippie types were really angry about it. That never stopped tourists.

there are other issues impacting US tourism, especially Florida, but I daresay people don’t think that much about measles. Either their kids are vaccinated or they think it’s all overblown anyway.

That is an interesting article, thank you for sharing.

The quote about Disney being for the top 20% is strange. Perhaps the view of visiting the parks is different in the UK. My mum always used to call it a “chav holiday”; with kids at her school who never really went on holidays, let alone outside of Europe, jetting off to Disney in Florida. Certainly none of my middle class or upper middle friends or kids of friends today would go today.

I'd agree that nothing obliges anything to buy a ticket, but I think it's worth noting, and not particularly admirable, when something that was meant to be universal and affordable gradually becomes not only huge expensive, but tiered.

A ‘chav holiday’ that costs over 10k for a fortnight. I’d say a week all inclusive in Turkey or Benidorm would more likely fit that bill. We took our kids to Disney 3 times and the brits in the groups were more likely pretty well off from what i’ve seen in other 10yrs in the groups. Many go every year, and never holiday anywhere else. You need a pretty decent salary to to that every year. Most i’d say are pretty well off, and don’t fit the ‘chav’ description.

Like I said I’m not a Disney person but that sounds like ridiculous snobbery. I know plenty of British people who have been to Disney (not even counting people who did a day at Disneyland while in California, so not a dedicated trip). They’re professional families. Disney is out of the reach of working class families. This is the worst sort of class discourse.

I don’t think many businesses are shooting for ‘admirable’. Disney isn’t a charity. It’s a business like all others that’s trying to maximise its profits. Despite Mumsnet despise, they do rather well!