The Great British Travelling Public are such child hating wankerish gits and if I could slaughter them wholesale without incurring a penal sentence, I surely would

[handlemecarefully]

I don't know if anyone else experiences this - I am talking about hostile attitudes towards children, and their parents when travelling. I never encounter this more acutely than when I am on a plane with the kids or a train.

Just got back from a trip to Paris on Eurostar. Travelled in first class and had misfortune to be adjacent to late middle aged couple on outward journey. Oh how they heaved, sighed and tutted and exchanged highly significant glances in passive aggressive way when one of the lo's so much as muttered anything. I have to say my 4 and 5 year old were pretty good but they had the occasional grumble during a long boring and confining journey as young children are inclined to do.

When ds momentarily (all of 30 seconds) shrieked his disapproval about something (he was upset with the food provided, lol) there was a loud 'shush' from someway amongst the wankerish fellow passengers. So I might have let rip with a rant (just possibly -certainly dh told me to calm down)

Same thing on return journey in 1st class with Eurostar. This time next to 30 something Essex couple (snob alert - elocution like Jade Goody btw) who were obviously (i) childless and (ii) full of own self importance being owners of car clamping business - thats a guess btw (lots of stroppy mobile calls to recalcitrant employees telling them they were not good 'enuff'). 30 something woman looked like she was sucking lemons most of the time - I think my playing hangman with dd was a gross imposition (although she probably wouldn't know what that meant)

Strangely the travellers on London Underground were the nicest and most ammeanable (smiling at the children etc)

Does anybody else experience this when travelling?

Oh please don't I will be travelling alone with three children soon and I am already feeling depressed about it.

The disapproving looks.
The fact that NOBODY FUCKING HELPS when you're there trying to manage with your luggage.

Sorry emkana - but best to be prepared. Take some rescue remedy

Wow, first class with kids. I'm surprised you didn't get lynched as soon as you stepped on board. Yes, I've travelled and had the misfortune to sit near people who think children should either be seen and not heard, or maybe stowed away with the luggage somewhere. Miserable buggers aren't they?

I hope you had a nice time in Paris anyway

I think I am going to book a trip to Spain / italy / Portugal for October half term as an antidote to pedophobia. May have to remortgage house and get private jet though

I think the first class has something to do with it serena. I suppose people were travelling in those carriages with the expectation of a Spa like travelling experience...we might have fared better in economy..

But f**k 'em.

I'd like to see them try and lynch me . I was willing them to say something (to give me something more tangible to work with) rather than do the passive aggressive thing. If they has said something I could have let rip. However I would have looked insane if I had tackled them for heaving, sighing and frowning so I had to sit on my hands and bite my lip. I swear I still have unspent adrenalin coursing through my veins

Littlelapin, I just might!

I found that people were very indulgent towards the dcs in Dubai too

Congrats on using term "pedophobia". Never actually heard that one before! Will try to slip into conversation...

Slightly better in standard (we did the Eurostar to Disney in february) but only because the families outnumbered the miserable buggers. There were a few stressed looking suits giving various kids the evil eye when we went. I am trying to learn not to care but it's very hard.

This is why we get in our car, go hell for leather down the M20 and don't get out until we are in France
Agree with every bitter word you typed HMC, that'll teach you to take children in first class

I had to google it Unquietdad

kerry - the dc's were pretty good - truly. The other passengers were toxic though. I genuinely think they expected the dcs to be invisible. They would for instance have politely ignored it if dh and I had been involved in a disagreement on board the train, but ds remarking loudly "Wow, we are under the sea now" was far too much of a cross for them to bear. They seemed to have far higher expectations of the children than they would other adults if that makes sense.

Should I go with a preprinted laminated sign next time (I have my own laminator since I am quite anal) saying "Don't even think about showing disrepect to me or my family, I am unhinged and dangerous" ???

It is awful isn't it. We flew back from Barbados in Virgin Premium Economy and the kids were brilliant - chatted a bit whilst eating, laughed at the cartoons, then curled up and went to sleep. But the looks we got on entering the upstairs cabin were awful - the guy on the other side of the aisle actualy muttered to his wife when he saw us and glared every time I got up into the aisle to get things we'd forgotten to get out of hand luggage. And then the twunt watched TV all night and laughed out loud whilst everyone else (including my kids) was trying to sleep

Oh Prufrock - I feel your pain

Such a shame it is like this...

hmc - are you still there? I feel sure my dh must know your dh. Is he based in London?

ooh sympathy, empathy

wish I could remember who said this but have a fab quote from possibly frightfully upper class lady (a Mitford?) on a cruise when other people complained about her kids making merry. She looked up and said:

"Excuse me, my children are perfect".

and looked away.

god i would love to have a moment to say that

Oh poor you - the same thing happened to me on a flight once where some grumbly old codger said 'your children need to quieten down'. This was at 2pm on a flight to the US.

I went back to my seat (had been on route to the loo) and fished out the ear plugs which had been thoughtfully provided. Walked back to him, handed him the ear plugs and said 'I think these are supposed to go in your ears, but in your case, I think your arse would be a more suitable receptacle' I went on to say - 'I thought this was a day time flight not an old people's home where afternoon nap time is the norm!'

I sat down and then pmsl for the remainder of the flight at how witty I had been[oops]

Brilliant riposte Soapbox!

"l'esprit de l'escalier" is alive and well in soapbox!

Oh dear We are doing a first class train out to France for half-term ...

But can I do a balancing anecdote? - coming back on a plane from Malta we got split up & ds (then just 8) had to sit on his own, next to an elderly lady: she turned out to be a retired paediatric heart surgeon and she totally engrossed ds the whole journey. (And she claimed to us she'd enjoyed their chat )

Fabulous retort Soapbox!

HMC, I'd go with the laminated sign if I were you. And serious ROFL at wheelclampers description!

DH is (very regular business/first class transatlantic hopper) now very good at playing peekabo with other people's DC on long flights - having been on the end of tutting and comments with our own DC (actually with our own Dc he generally reads and leaves it to me!).

Although, he did recently take DD (8)1st class to USA and she was treated like a princess. On the return trip some of the passengers recognised her enquired politely if she had enjoyed her trip. So maybe there is a cutoff age for the rudeness of strangers.

Never found a problem on the train but on plane back from San Fran recently (Virgin Upper Class) DS had a big old, too tired tantrum, and I could see the other passengers bristling and thinking 'I didn't pay all this money for Upper just to have a screaming toddler in my ear". Luckily he calmed down and went to sleep.

My worst though was BA Economy flight to Florence by myself when DS was about 10 months and was v. well behaved and horrible couple next to me talked about how dreadful it was to be on a plane near a child all the way there!

I tend to approach the passive-aggressive tuts and sighs with a false smile, gritted teeth, and a very polite (but slightly edgy) "I'm sorry; is there some kind of problem?". It usually stops them because they are generally afraid of confrontation (hence the sighing and tutting rather than saying anything) and they don't want to become involved with the (possibly unhinged) mother of the children. If they do moan about your kids, though, then you have the green light to let rip.