European tour - an outsider's POV needed

[BuzzieLittleBee]

My friend is planning to visit from Australia at Christmas/New year. She has family here, and a couple of friends, and will spend mid-Dec to 2nd Jan with them (covering London, Devon, Midlands and Cotswolds). She then wants her kids (10 and 16) to have the chance to 'see Europe', and has found a coach tour with the following itinerary...

London to Paris, 2 nights in Paris
Paris to Lucerne (7hrs), 1 night in Lucerne
Lucerne to Venice (5hrs), 1 night in Venice
Venice to FLorence (3.5hrs), 1 night in Florence
Florence to Rome (3hrs), 2 nights in Rome

I've added the travel times as estimated by google maps, but in reality they'll be longer, as it's currently 11pm, and they'll travel by day and presumably stop en route!

To me, this seems utterly crazy. I totally get why she wants her kids to have a small taste of Europe, but I just can't imagine there being much enjoyment in this trip (esp during the first week of January when the weather isn't great, and it gets dark early).

I don't want to piss on her chips (as it were), but I'd like to put forward a more sensible/enjoyable alternative.

It's also a coach tour, and - drawing on stereotypes - I imagine it will be full of Americans of a certain age (much older than her/her family) and probably some Chinese/Japanese tourists - that's who I generally think of as being the target audience for these kinds of trips.

So - if you had 8 days (7 nights), and were a family of 4 - what would make sense to you? I don't imagine money will be an issue, as this tour is listed on the company's website at £2,300 pp!

That does sound like a lot of money and I agree, the 10 year old (depending on temperament) IS very likely to be very bored!

However, if she has 10 grand and wants to spend it on this, I would let her get on with it...

Which company is it with? Because Contiki, Topdeck and Busabout (until they folded during COVID) used to be pretty much a young Australian right of passage, and specifically aimed at 18-30s, possibly your friend has some very fond memories of doing something like this 20 years ago!

From an Australian point of view, this is really fun - they are a lot more used to long driving distances than Brits (understatement) and the idea of seeing several countries in a short stretch of time is a real thrill.

Also, going with the bus takes away all the stress of driving/parking and choosing the itinerary.

Americans, Chinese and Japanese, are all northern hemisphere people so, like Brits, more likely to appear in large numbers during European summer. Most likely it will be full of Australians, New Zealanders and South Africans, Brazilian. However, meeting people from other places is actually one of the fun parts of going on a tour. We are all stereo-typical tourists when we go on holiday - hiring a car doesn't make you any "realer" than the people who go on a bus!

The advantage of doing it at this time of year is that the roads and tourist sites are lot quieter than during European summer and accommodation is cheaper.

Madness - they will see a lot of motorways and dark towns when they get there! I mean what’s the point of being in Venice and Florence in the dark???? Better to focus on one or two places and do them properly - eg train to Paris forc2/3 days then train to Eg Barcelona or Berlin for something a bit different.

Also, for the amount of money they are spending on 4 bus tickets, they could easy hire a private driver to do them a bespoke tour in a mini van for a few days.

This is normal for Australians (and probably also people from the US and China).

They're used to travelling much further distances and it doesn't matter to them that they won't see much, because after all, you can't do more than scratch the surface of a single place in a few days, let alone all the places on that list. They just want to be able to say that they've seen the Eiffel tower and some Swiss mountains etc with their own eyes.

Leave them to it, they know what they've booked and won't be under any illusion that they've seen more than a tiny snapshot of Europe unless they're really quite dim and if they are, you won't convince them to do otherwise.

I asked my American friend if she like to do this and she said she’d love to.

It may be worth reminding them that it gets dark in the UK at 4pm in mid December, and will be similar in other European countries.

Do inter rail - a couple of night trains for fun. Weather could be bad but less likely to affect trains than roads. You get a good sense of countryside, towns and general architecture.

I'd love to take my kids on this coach tour! Who is it organised by? It's just a bit of fun, a taste of Europe. Imagine Australians are used to driving a long way, and maybe the cold will be a novelty. It will certainly be quieter in tourist spots, particularly Italy which gets very crowded, in winter.

I've only been on one organised holiday with a rep, and it was mostly older people, that is true, but there were two teens and everyone got on really well.

I think you need to remind her about the weather and the short days.

Assuming they are spending nights in hotels then the Paris to Lucerne taking 5 hours, then if they set of at 9.00am and don't stop they will get to Lucerne at 2pm, then they will have about 3 hours before it is dark.

Would she consider a river cruise? She could see quite a lot and be travelling in the dark.

Probably more tiring, but I would actually attempt it by plane - book cheap connections such as London - Paris - Berlin - Rome - Madrid, or such routes. Book evening flights then you get the most of the daytime hours in each city. Alternatively London - Paris can be done quickly by train, as can Paris-Berlin if you book an evening connection. This way they would get “almost” 2 full days in each city, if they don’t mind the number of flights. With the money saved they could get nicer hotels and Ubers to the airport / fast-track security passes, cutting the travel time.

Not in Switzerland and Italy. Daylight from around 7.45am to 5pm in December and January. Quite different to the UK in that aspect!

Frankly - just ridiculous. I would suggest the train to Paris and then fly to Venice. Doing more is ludicrous. Both these cities have plenty to see and the top sights are doable in 3 days. Many people do short city breaks. Travelling on a coach is about travel. It’s not about seeing the cities. They are stop offs only. What a waste.

As for Americans doing this! Most older ones visiting Europe don’t use coaches. They have more money and taste. It’s a young person thing.

Kids generally not accepted on river cruises

I would advice her to do it herself and do a similar thing by train. Kids can move around, buffet cars much faster , trains are cheap and reliable in Europe. Book her own hotels

I'm glad it's not just me! I know Australians drive a long way, but I asked her if she would drive from Sydney to Melbourne and she said categorically no, never! It's not that much further than Paris to Lucerne....

I get the point about Contiki etc (and her and I did a Contiki tour together about 30 years ago - but in NZ, where we never drove for more than 3 hours, but also the roads and scenery are stunning, and driving is an experience not just a means to an end). This is with Trafalgar, which (from a quick look online) I think draws a much older target audience.

I also know that Americans DO take bonkers coach trips (contrary to a couple of posts up-thread) - I have a friend who runs a company offering tourist coach trips to see famous UK landmarks (covering a huge mileage in each trip), and the vast majority of their customers are American. And I used to work in hospitality, and one of our hotels put on a lunch stop every single day for a coach tour (itinerary London-Stonehenge-Cotswolds-Stratford Upon Avon-London... in a single day), and that was almost exclusively US people. All year round. Clearly not ALL Americans choose to holiday like this, but there are swathes of US tourists who do choose to do the 'check list' kinds of tours (I'm sure partly because they look at the map and think the distances are tiny), and the coach trip my friend is looking at is very much a 'tick list' kind of thing.

Anyhow - back to the point...

She has asked me for help planning her trip, and for a point of view. There are a few alternatives I think she should/could consider...

1 - Fly to Rome, a few days there, then fly somewhere quite contrasting (Barcelona for another big city, or Granada maybe for a very different kind of vibe, and also some mountains)
2 - try and fit in 3 contrasting cities, with a combination of flights and maybe sleeper trains (or normal trains). Berlin is a good shout - a very different kind of city from London and Rome.
3 - a cruise.... I'm usually hugely dismissive of cruises, but in this instance I can see their relevance. There are cruises that take in Rome, Barcelona, south of France, and the northern coast of Italy. At least that way they'd be travelling overnight.

The advantage of sticking to Southern Europe is that the weather will be a little bit better, and the hours of daylight are longer.

This thread has proved useful in not only providing suggestions, but also making me feel better about offering alternatives!

Americans taking European coach trips in January are not going to be numerous. They don’t spend long in destinations as they don’t get much annual holiday. I think overall the coach trip is about travel, not seeing anything. If you value culture you don’t rush around. If you value your tick list more, and have no interest in seeing the place you arrive in, then rushing around appeals.

Has Grenada got lots of flights in and out? Seville would be easier. In some ways I would just stick to Spain or Italy, it’s easy enough to travel in Italy via train for example. But fly out in the first place.

Seville is a good shout - would give a different kind of view of Europe with the Moorish side of things. In fact I think Berlin/Rome/Seville is possibly the perfect trio of cities (given she's already had 2 weeks in London).

That does sound bonkers, but then a lot of people from faraway countries like Australia or the US do that kind of thing in Europe. They hit four countries in a week, spend most of the looking out of a bus or train window, leap out and take a few photos in front of the main sights and back on the transportation to the next stop. TBH, I'd probably leave her to it, if what she wants to do is give her kids a little taster of Europe. No, they won't see much and it sounds utterly exhausting, but presumably she understands that?

I'd tell her to download the flixbus app and book her own itinerary, it's so easy, adding flights if they make sense from a time point of view.

I'd do Paris, nice, Florence, Rome fly to Berlin then cologne, Bruges, London

A Danube cruise is another option at a similar price point

Suggest interrail ticket and do London to Paris.to Berlin to Amsterdam to London.

Their itinerary sounds mad.

www.interrail.eu/en/interrail-passes/global-pass?gclsrc=aw.ds&&utm_source=google&gad_source=1&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=IR_UK_EN_DO_Paid-Search_Brand-AlwaysOn&utm_id=20904170777&utm_accountid=default_accountid&utm_accounttype=default_accounttype&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8ICFj6L1igMVXZpQBh1GHw_EEAAYASAAEgKclvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Most if not all river cruises are for 18+ only

River cruises are not really for teens. I would ask what cities they really would like to see and, more importantly, why? Even 3 cities is waiting around so much in airports or on trains. In a week it’s a lot of wasted opportunity. I find it a bit sad! All this way to sit on a coach!

I’m doing something similar in China next month, 6 hotels over 12 days with various trains, planes, boats, cars, coaches involved.

Remember with flying there is quite a lot of time wasted at the airport and getting to and from the airport.

A European or Med cruise would actually work well for this family. On my first one in Europe my DC got to see the sights in Rome, we visited Pisa, Pompeii, Barcelona, Palma in Majorca, and a stop in South of France.

In 8 days?! Surely not!

The Flixbus thing is a good idea though. I'll add that to the list of suggestions.