Six weeks to travel with family next summer (likely Europe) - what would you do?

[Leskovac]

We have the chance to travel as a family (DH, DD7, DD9, me) for up to six weeks next summer. We are thinking of driving in Europe.

We want this to be educational for the children and enjoyable for all of us. DD9 likes history (especially the Greeks and the Romans). DH and DD7 like music (including classical). We all like art and the outdoors (mountains, forests, seaside...). We want to include some Roman remains, Venice, and the bridge at Mostar.

Any tips for age-appropriate historical/cultural things to include, please?

I know that some places we would be interested in (Rome, Juliet's balcony in Verona, Venice generally) will be absolutely rammed in August, especially Rome during a Jubilee year. This might be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, and we don't want to miss something brilliant, even if it's crowded, but equally well we don't want to spend our time battling crowds in tourist hot-spots just because they are on everyone's 'list'. e.g. should we go to Herculaneum rather than Pompeii? Grateful for any thoughts about how to balance this!

The above sounds very Italy-focussed, but it doesn't have to be. I would be interested going a bit further east, e.g. Poland, Czech Republic, the former Yugoslavia. I think the children would enjoy Paris and Amsterdam, and a beach holiday at some point, but I am wary of trying to cram too much in.

Also, does anyone have any ideas about how to set this up so that we do not all kill each other after a week?

Have you thought about trains rather than driving? It will open up a lot more city centres to you and an Interrail pass for the kids is free until they're 12.

That said, driving obviously opens up more of the countryside and you can stay in cheaper places on the outskirts.

I think your idea of looking for swaps is a good one. There is no real swap for Rome BUT my Roman-era mad son loved Nimes, for example - which also has the Pont du Gard nearby and then the beaches are within reach too.

I heartily recommend the Balkans and if you're going to Mostar definitely also go to Sarajevo which is absolutely brilliant. I also loved Ljubljana and the Julian Alps - Lake Bohinj is less touristy than Lake Bled and has some great walks etc.

With your collective interests I'd also think about Austria - especially Salzburg and Innsbruck. Our absolute favourite place for holidays is Achensee, which is a lake up in the Alps between Innsbruck and Salzburg.

Lucky you - this sounds like an amazing opportunity!

Ah thanks for this! I don't want to influence any other responses, but your ideas resonated with me so much. DH would love to go to Salzburg. DD7 would as well, but realistically she is going to be more focussed on Mozartkuegeln than Mozart 😂 Achensee is the original Chalet School location, isn't it? - DD9 would probably go for that!

DH and I have talked about the Julian Alps before but were thinking about Lake Bled - Lake Bohinj sounds like an excellent call.

Driving will mean we can take more with us, including bikes. I am wondering about trying to find a holiday let for e.g. a week outside cities we know we will want to explore, and getting public transport in. Thank you for the tip about kids' interrail passes though - we will look into it.

One stressor for me on family holidays is always laundry, and I am thinking that being able to take plenty of clothes with us, and potentially staying in holiday lets with a washing machine, will mitigate that.

I know, we are really lucky....

I did a 3 week road trip when mine were 8&10 so similar ... suggestions basically d on our experience are Luxembourg (cathedral is lovely and kids were fascinated by it being a country you can drive across quickly, cheaper fuel !) Strasbourg, did tour of European Parliament estate, europaparc, kids loved it, shorter queues than Disney but just as good, Black Forest, zeppelin museum on way to Bavaria, the castles are a must, do a proper tour the Wagner connection was a big thing for mine who were already playing instruments, but don't miss the summerbob near by, was fun.

Then crossed alps, we had less time but since I've been to Florence, Naples and Rome, consider going as far as Sicily where there's Greek ruins in both agrigento and Syracuse plus go up Etna on the cable car (Taormina is great for a couple of nights) before heading back to the mainland.

Go up to Venice, the water buses were a huge hit, and the glassworks. Verona was interesting, Juliet's balcony and the outdoor opera (pick which opera wisely but kids are welcome from 5, just take cushions if you have the stone cheap seats! Kids were half price back then). Head to Austria for a sound of music scene hunt in Salzburg, perhaps you can get as far as Vienna even Budapest before heading back across Germany. Do stop in Bonn and see Beethovens birthplace, they let dd play the piano which supposedly he played on. Aachen is a great last stop as it's an easy hop to Calais for the ferry.

Other tips, Google map your trip, unless prohibitively expensive minimum 2 nights in each stop then every week make sure to have a 3 day stop somewhere you can access laundry equipment easily, but allow yourselves a bit of a quieter day with the park, stock up on snacks for the car etc. To keep food costs down I try to get a decent breakfast buffet to fill us up and carry things like a chopping board, knife etc do I can put together sandwiches on the go when we stop at the supermarket for fuel, had a powered cool box that rubs off the car for spread, mayo etc. Capri sun, cans, crisps, snack bars etc I always had. We generally ate out in the evening but sometimes it was takeaway or hot chicken and salad from the supermarket.

Have an amazing trip, I've never been able to go for so long

Yes Achensee is Chalet School land! I think my family were sceptical the first time I took them but now it's their absolute favourite place and they always clamour to go back. It's glorious. We stay at Cabin 8 apartments which have kitchenettes, bunk beds etc and a shared washing machine. Agree you'll want some places with good laundry facilities!

We usually hire bikes when we're there but yes being able to take your own would be such a win.

Should add i highly recommend the camp sites north of Venice for a few days t&t I stayed right on the beach and they have a variety of accommodation options pra del torre

Wow, you did so much in three weeks 😎

Thanks for this - all great suggestions. Luxembourg is very cool - DH and I saw a flock(?) of red squirrels there, many years ago. I like the idea of Strasbourg and the European Parliament for the children - it would be something different in the mix, as well as art and music.

We'd also thought about the opera at Verona but weren't sure whether DD7 would sit through it. Do you mind if I ask which one you saw? Were your kids OK with it?

It would blow DD7's mind to play the piano Beethoven played. We will not bank on them letting her, but she and DH would love to see it.

Sicily might be a bit far, but we'll have a look. DD9 was disappointed when I said Greece was too far this time.

Thanks for the tip about the powered cool box - I did not know such things existed.

Maybe look into hiring a campervan if you're ok with driving. You can take more stuff with you and you can use facilities such as washing machines at campsites etc. It all sounds very exciting for you!

I was about to recommend the same!

Freedom to travel, all your stuff ready packed and saves that issue! Instant accommodation which makes your journey more flexible

@LittleBowSheep and @itsgettingweird - thank you for that suggestion, that sounds really interesting, and it's not something we had thought of.

I will discuss it with DH - realistically he is going to be doing most of the driving. I guess it pretty much removes the option of driving into crowded city centres (which maybe isn't great anyway), but I like the idea of the flexibility and convenience.

Italian here- August in a city in Italy especially Rome in the Jubilee year with kids is my idea of hell. It will be 40-45 degrees in Rome and packed.

My Roman friends all leave the city in August and have the shutters closed all day in July.

Yes I would also caution to scale down plans in the July and August heat. Croatia, Italy, Austria and Slovenia can be really hot in those months.
Some days you really should be aiming for out early to anything historical, stopping by 11am to then spend most the afternoon in shade, by a lake or pool. Then back out in cooler evenings.

In Austria last Summer we regularly had 30-35+ temps from 9am-6pm. The odd cooler day we took daytrips, and I remember one day it was raining overnight in Ljubljana so we had a lovely cooler morning sightseeing but it was so hot again by lunchtime we had to find shade.

So my suggestion is do the 6 weeks. But make sure the schedule isn’t jam packed as say 2 days in Venice, would be much better if you have 4 days so you can go slow and relax when too hot.

I wouldn’t go by camper van. If it is hot you have no way of escaping heat a few hours as the van will be hot inside also. Just rent various holiday let’s or b and b type places where you have proper bathrooms, laundry, and options of pool or lake onsite or nearby. Also toll roads or parking often charge more for campers and you are limited going to town parking as many are underground

If you drive from Venice towards Austria, Udine is a lovely town to stop off at on route.

I also think it’s illegal to park your campervan in Italy randomly and if you want to use camping facilities in July and August, I would start booking them soon-ish.
the beach places especially near Venice (Lido di Jesolo) get booked up.

Definitely looking at booking any accommodation now. We have a rental, and for the summer on average it’s booked up by 9-12 months beforehand. It’s only a cancellation that makes it available later.
Also larger rentals ie 2 bedroom properties likely have a 5 night minimum stay in peak areas. So it might be worth looking at several 5 nights stays for apartments combined with shorter stays in hotels or b and bath that might allow just 2 nights

I would go for the inter rail passes, and book private family rooms in hostels. The highways are pretty busy in the summer. And as PP pointed out, you can't drive into the city centre. Plus, depends on your driving skills, could add a lot of extra stress. Also a lot more expensive.

And yes, book now. We are in one of the places on your route, the bookings have been coming in fast since New Year, by Easter we will be fully booked for June-September.

I second Arena di Verona for the music lovers, and may I also suggest one of the summer concerts at Grafenegg - it’s a stunning place close to Vienna which offers outdoor concerts during the summer months, and you could try and catch a lively night such as the EUYO (EU Youth Orchestra, level is incredibly high). It’s in a beautiful, green part of the countryside as well, so I’m sure there are plenty of activities to do nearby during the day too. Their open-air stage is just incredible.

Germany is awesome for outdoor concerts too, however the weather is less reliable in July/August. The Waldbühne is a highlight in Berlin one cannot miss, although many concerts take place in June. Sometimes West Eastern Divan Orchestra (made up of Palestinian, Israeli and other Middle East + Spanish musicians) tours there in August, so maybe check if dates align, however Berlin is quite far up north. On your way to the “southern” countries you could make a stop in Munich or Nuremberg which will also have great options on offer. Google any of the cities you’d be passing through, their main orchestras + “open air”.

Somewhere like Bayreuth would be too much for young children, but you could check if they do any guided tours of the opera house where Wagner worked and established his reputation with the Ring - same for any “epic” locations in other cities. Beethovenhaus, Philharmonie Berlin, Musikverein Vienna… In my experience, a lot of these big houses are also open to the public for a short (and often cheap) guided tour.

Driving sounds like madness for what is essentially a city hopping trip. You won't be able to park anywhere and your bikes will be stolen within a week. You'll be paying to leave the car somewhere miles outside Rome and Venice. Anywhere south of the Alps is going to be too hot for cycling & hiking in August anyway.

Make it two trips. A city cultural tour by public transport and/or flying, and a driving/nature/camping/cycling tour. The exception is if you're prepared to go to smaller sites. E.g. Lyon or Nîmes have loads of roman stuff and are close to the alps and the Med, but they're a long way from world famous orchestras and galleries etc.

@Leskovac

We saw turandot so quite grand and it's got the biggest hitter of all opera arias, nessan dorma! Younger one had a nap at one point but elder was mesmerised, she's singing professionally now!

Sicily is quite a way but has Greek temples and you can take an overnight ferry from Rome or Naples for instance, meaning you don't need to drive the whole way down and back.

If you drive, there are some routes you can use the car transport trains. You put car on train, get yourself a cabin and sleep until you arrive in morning. It’s great and helps reduce driving

However I think a car is fine. You can just leave in in an underground parking in large cities or just park outside if needed like Venice. It means you have flexibility to stay rural, drive to various attractions not in central. Like Salzburg you can easily hotel 10 mins outside near the zoo, and leave car for free at accommodation and use bus to go central.
Things like castles or old ruins are often off the beaten track

I absolutely love Sicily and have been 6-7 times. But again August is just so hot. They had two heatwaves now two summers in a row, last summer was up to 47 degrees. Plus water shortages and forest fires.

If you want to see Roman remains, it's worth a visit to Nimes. The amphitheatre is one of the best preserved in the world, and you're a short journey from the Pont du Gard (you can canoe down the river underneath it, which gives you a different view) which is also a must-see. You could also visit Arles and Orange which are close by.

This is all so helpful - thank you very much! I have been fantasising about European road trips supervising homework and cooking, while keeping up with this thread.

Of all the (very useful) comments, the ones about the heat are giving me most pause for thought - both in terms of the viability of a campervan for where we want to go, and whether we should think more about climate/altitude.

I am not imagining this as primarily a city-hopping trip. I can see us staying outside smaller cities such as Bonn, Salzburg and Sarajevo (maybe also Verona?) if necessary and getting the train in. Rome and Venice seem like the major question marks, as they might be too big to do this. I am now thinking about Nimes for the Roman remains (thank you, @JassyRadlett and @stringbean), and taking the children to Rome or Sicily one May or autumn half term instead. The Camargue would be a major draw for Nimes as well.

@mitogoshigg - thank you for the Verona opera feedback. This might be one tourist hotspot we brave (also perhaps concerts in Germany and Austria @RobinHood19).

@mitogoshigg and @Caspianberg - thank you for the tips about putting a car on trains/ferries, albeit we might not do Sicily this time (would love to another time).

Right, I am off to put together a new spreadsheet, adding in the Achensee, Lake Bohinj and Nimes!

I would caution against leaving luggage in the car overnight etc when you are staying in an Airbnb. I'd take it all up to the apartments, even though it's a faff, to avoid the car getting broken into. This is an issue in Italy and I'm sure other places.

Thank you, we will do. We are also very nervous about having bikes stolen, and try to keep them inside our accommodation.