Over tourism- are you re thinking your holidays

[TheGander]

Have been following the news re demonstrations against tourism in Spain. I’ve been going there on holiday on an off for years. The demos resonate with me as I feel tourism has intensified and accelerated in recent years, partly boosted by the internets ability to create eg air bnb, instagram tourism where people converge on beauty spots for the pics, social media creating popular destinations via sites such as tripadvisor etc. I can read Spanish so I’ve looked at articles in local press. Some destinations I used to love just aren’t enjoyable any more eg Cadiz which is now overrun by cruise ships , ait bnbs and the locals are fed up and going on demos about it. I’m reassessing where to go on holiday as a result. Anyone else?

Cruise ships are a definite problem IMO

I was in Dubrovnik recently and the locals we spoke to had pretty negative feelings about them - they arrive in hordes, have a tour with their own tour guide, maybe buy a meal but many don’t as have breakfast/dinner on the ship, don’t use hotels or taxis or other independent services. Basically contribute relatively little to the local economy but create huge crowds and huge eyesores in the sea, putting off other tourists who might spend more.

They have a pretty terrible environmental impact too - worse than flying per passenger mile.

Next time, before you judge Spanish hospitality and being charged for water, perhaps think that the restaurant has to pay for the bottles that they would decant into your free jugs. Hence them charging you for it

I think if you change €3.50 for a 250ml plastic bottle (and say you don't have bigger ones) I do feel taken for a ride.... they don't pay that much for it , or they do because it is a non recyclable bottle.

(A whole other issue with tourism)
I still think hospitality isn't great in Spain. (That's entirely based on one city break. As I won't go again.)
I think I am entitled to a fair price on some water... fair as in cheap enough so I can be persuaded to buy the other overpriced drinks on the menue. And actually spending my money locally, supporting local economy instead of seeking out the cheap supermarkets and stocking up there. (Spain has a great Lidl, which is a German company! )

@DancefloorAcrobatics not all parts of Spain are like this, and not all restaurants/bars in Spain are like this either. I have been visiting for many years and have never once felt unwelcome.

It is the air bnbs that are a big issue. Rich foreigners buying homes to let out feeding their greedy lifestyle.
Scum of the earth.
Also cruise ships defacing the harbour giving minimal input to the economy

No wonder locals hate us

I’d be keen to avoid language such as hate and scum of the earth. I can’t find any statistics but I would have thought the majority of air bnbs are owned by Spaniards although I’m sure there are a lot of foreign owners too. I think mass tourism models need to be re thought and governments are going to have to take action in some hotspots or tension is just going to rise. My personal resolutions are 1) no holidays in Mediterranean areas in July or august ( it’s too hot anyway) 2) always stay in family run hotels unless there just aren’t any 3) no cruises. Also consider less touristed areas which might mean avoiding coasts especially along the Mediterranean.

I've noticed out holiday highlights have been the quirky, off the beaten track attractions that we (a) virtually had to ourselves or shared with locals and (b) felt ticket office were genuinely pleased we had come. The "must see" places are just a bit stressful and anonymous.

In future i want us to apply that to the whole holiday, not just the attractions.

No, but it makes me more committed to being as ethical as I can when I visit. Putting money into local hands not big corporations or unethical "local" set ups (AirBnB for example). Visiting authentic attractions respectfully, rather than tourist traps exploiting the locals or nature. Being mindful of things like my water and energy consumption, both personally and in terms of the hotels I stay in. I did these things most of the time already but it's a reminder to make more effort.

Yes it is.

It’s definitely making me think more creatively about where I go. There are less visited countries, or cities within the very visited countries, who feel much less jaded by tourism which are just are beautiful as the very popular ones.

I can understand why locals are fed up and need a bit of respite in the places impacted by over tourism.

The issue with AirBnB isn't that the people who own them aren't Spanish. Every AirBnB owner in Spain could be a "local" and it would still be perpetuating the unethical tourist trade that people are angry about.

The problem is that they're destroying communities as wealthy people (Spanish or otherwise) people are buying residential properties to use as AirBnBs. So others are priced out of owning homes, have to put up with inconsiderate guests and the vibe of the block of flats or even whole neighbourhood changes as more of the flats are occupied by transient tourists not genuine residents who form a community.

Maybe, just maybe we need to look at some other countries like Peru & the inka trail.

There only a smallish amount of people are allowed on the trail each day (all checked in with passports). The trail is closed for 4 weeks each year for maintenence.

Machu Picchu, again limited numbers. You are guided a specific route, there are 4 different ones, it's decided on the day which one you are allowed to take.

Obviously, these things have to do more with maintenence than stopping tourists.

But it's a start and more countries could go down this route in order to preserve their cultural heritage.

Or closer to home Venice with their day visitors charges ....

Yes, we won't book Air BNBs nor "holiday" homes that are in housing estates/blocks of flats etc., as you're literally taking away a place that could be someone's home.

The only places we stay are either hotels, or "proper" holiday homes, i.e. barn conversions, that have been build/converted purposely to be holiday homes. In places like barn conversions, there'd usually be unsuitable for permanent living anyway often due to planning permission restrictions or being too remote for commuting, no public transport, etc.

We've also stayed in some "unusual" places too, such as converted railway carriages, a converted railway engine shed, canal lock-keeper's cottage, etc., again that have been purposely converted/built to be holiday accommodation.

Not only do I fundamentally disagree with "normal" homes being used for holidays, I also never feel quite right being on holiday in a place when the neighbours are doing normal "living" things like going to work, mowing the lawn, etc. It just doesn't feel like a holiday!

@LoquaciousPineapple

The problem is that they're destroying communities as wealthy people (Spanish or otherwise) people are buying residential properties to use as AirBnBs. So others are priced out of owning homes, have to put up with inconsiderate guests and the vibe of the block of flats or even whole neighbourhood changes as more of the flats are occupied by transient tourists not genuine residents who form a community.

Nail on the head. Wealthy people from elsewhere buying up what were previously (and should be) people's homes just to make profit from holidaymakers. It's not just foreign tourist hotspots. Same in the UK too, in places like the Cotswalds, Lake District, York, etc - properties that are "suitable" for holidays are being bought up almost immediately on the day they are listed by wealthy people from miles away, often sight unseen. There needs to be some controls.

Possibly it needs to be diffused a bit better but tourism is not something that's going to go away. More countries are moving towards being developed economies with a significant middle class who want to enjoy travelling and leisure activities. These countries have young populations, while Europe's population is aging and its industry has various productivity challenges. It needs tourism, however much people might bitch about it, and the market is there for it. Obviously there has to be some balance - no one wants the continent to become a cultural theme park populated by the elderly and a dwindling cohort of low paid hospitality workers. But to a large extent some shift of this nature looks inevitable.

My understanding is that the protestors’ main issue is Airbnb & the likes re-purposing residential properties for short-term holiday rental. Unlike hotels, this doesn’t support jobs for local people and because tourists have facilities to self-cater they are likely to spend less money in restaurants. Fewer apartments available for people to live in inevitably pushes up prices for those which remain on the market.

That is a problem for local government in these areas to solve. More & better regulation is needed to prevent ever more properties becoming unavailable for people to live in. Deterring tourists from visiting altogether benefits nobody.

I think we’re in total agreement @LoquaciousPineapple .

Just don't go to Santorini.

Tourists are welcome where I live. It’s what’s many rely on for income or a good % of it. Without out it would struggle.

Our holiday let doesn’t take away local accommodation, it’s part of our house. Like a bed and breakfast with own apartment within.
Guests have self cater options but spend loads of money locally. Most eat out at least once a day, use local facilities, pay for attractions etc. we have tourist tax here which really contributes towards these extra facilities for locals also. Tourist shop, and spend money

peak tourist season is just summer 2-3 months and then about a month over ski season. Almost all guests drive here, very few fly and we are landlocked so no boat cruises. We have lakes for summer swimming though for tourists and local. It’s peak season here now, August.

Yes it’s busy compared to usual, but it’s not that bad. Population local is around 2500 ( across a fairly spread out area), it rises to around 25000 overnight guests in summer

That sounds ok as long as the locals and local services can take the big population increase in summer @Caspianberg . Are you in Slovenia? Switzerland? I’m curious!

@TheGander - southern Austria. There’s a lot of space in the mountains so everyone is pretty spread out. The lakes are big, yes some beach areas get busy mid day, but locals rarely go then any way as too hot. 4-8pm is when we go after work and it’s emptied right out. It’s close to Italy and Slovenia that tourist can do daytrips if they wanted.
I can take Ds throughout the summer to museums, attractions, zoos, use cable cars and there’s never queue or large crowds

I find it slightly strange that people are prepared to cancel their trip to Spain over the possibility of being squirted with a water pistol, which happened exactly once to one group of 3 or 4 people (which is why it made headlines), but not about being pickpocketed, which happens dozens of times per day in Barcelona alone (which is why it doesn't make headlines), or indeed being violently assaulted by other tourists, which happens pretty much every day somewhere along the Mediterranean coast.

Hmmm @Caspianberg you are selling it to me!

@samarrange for me it’s not the thought of being squirted with a water pistol, it’s what these demonstrations represent ie the locals’ state of absolute fedupness with what they see as a tourist invasion and the impact this has on their quality of life year round, especially not being able to afford to live in their own neighbourhoods. I don’t want to be contributing to this.

Yes, I get the spirit of the OP and I broadly sympathise with it. My comment was inspired by a couple of other PP and also what I've seen on many other threads. 🙏

@TheGander - we love Slovenia though. Loads to do, mix of countryside, mountains, cities. Lots of nice farm stays which are family friendly, and spa hotels. Really good food also

Haven’t been to Slovenia either but I have heard good things about it.