It seemed like a good idea at the time...

[HowDidThisHappenDinesh]

TLDR; need advice on how to split money for large group holiday!

Long version:
We are arranging a big group holiday for a family member's milestone birthday. about 25 of us driving from the south of England to the middle of France. There's been the expected amount of umming and ahhing and dropping out/last minute additions, I accounted for this, and also expect some level of CFery based on the number of Mumsnet threads about holiday money split stress I've ready!
So far all is going well though and everyone seems a reasonable bunch - but to prevent as much of the financial awkwardness as possible I want to set some ground rules etc and get the general vibe of what's easiest/preferable for people.

1. So far most people seem amicable to pooling money into a kitty and paying for groceries from that. I have a Revolut account that only gets used for trips abroad that I can use for this purpose, and whoever does the shopping on whatever day can take the card, or I can reimburse costs back to people. Does this seem like the fairest approach, and how much per person per day should I ask for?
2. I've delegated meal prep between adults who enjoy cooking, and cleaning up to people who don't! Breakfast and dinner will be prepared each day, with lunch as a sort of do-it-yourself/eat leftovers vibe as some of us might be out in the day. Should I also plan to provide lunches or is half-board basis ok? (I've also planned one activity per day, opt in or out, so there is some structure to the holiday for the energetic types, but no obligation for those that want to lounge around!)
3. I already know this will come up, so, some meals are slightly fancier than others and the couple preparing it said they are prepared to pay for their food. I'd like to say ok and in that case reduce their contribution to the kitty/write it off completely (they are staying only a few days, not the whole time), does this seem fair or will people kick off?

Some other context so as not to drip feed:
There's no cost for accommodation, people have to pay for their own travel and food.
Alcohol is not included in the kitty, everyone who drinks is asked to bring a bottle of spirits and a couple of bottles of wine etc.
25 people in total are coming, most are adults, a couple of teenagers and one young adult who doesn't work. Thinking of only asking the working adults to contribute to the kitty calculated on a per person per day basis.
Anything left in the kitty will be reimbursed to people. If we go through it too fast I'm not sure what we'll do.
Also, I'm aware sorting meals for everyone and dealing with money is a thankless job. I volunteered to project manage the holiday as a sort of gift for this family member, who doesn't need any gifts other than the family being together.

What has been most successful for you in group holidays? How much is fair to ask people to contribute? Haven't been to France since pre-pandemic so not sure how much grocery budget is adequate. Thanks in advance for any advice or insight!

Hmm, this sounds like you are over thinking and over managing. I'd include the teens TBH and the non working adult.

If some people want to sub them then they can but I wouldn't decide for them.

Everyone eats such different food. It's a lots to coordinate.

Having said that it sounds like the type of holiday that would be great fun.

@Colinfromaccounts24 Splitwise is a great shout! I’ve used it before but didn’t think about it for this. Thank you!

@AlisonDonut two kitchens. I was thinking one communal, and one for independent bits if people want to buy any.

@FestivalFun you’re right, I assumed people would be happy to cover the teens as they are generally good lads and will pitch in and help out, but I should definitely confirm this. I think I’ll ask the non-working adult for half what I’m asking everyone else, and ask their DM to sub the rest.

think I’ll ask the non-working adult for half what I’m asking everyone else, and ask their DM to sub the rest

I think the DM needs to decide this not you, I don’t think you can just decide this sort of thing. I know decisions have to be made but I have a lot of relatives who would kick off if they are told what to do , what to pay, who is paying half etc.

The two kitchen plan is really good, people can keep their lunch stuff in there.

When we have done it we designated a family (or couple) as cooks and clean ups -ers for the whole day. That way there wasnt any cf making a huge mess when cooking because someone else was cleaning up, and if someone had a spouse that was a touch lazy, then they had to manage it or just pick up the slack. It also meant the family on deck for the day had to pick up coffee cups and wine glasses left around the living spaces so things stayed relatively neat..25 people can make a place a real state very quickly. The email that went round to designate days also had the list of basic tasks that were included and so everyone knew up front. Everyone was fine with it being spelled out as it made expectations easier. If you know anyone is a slob, then put them on a day later in the week so that people have got the measure and can measure out some karma.

For food, we started with a kitty (revolut card is a great idea) and but we all knew it was just a start up amount. We then did a second amount when we were three quarters through and then the left over money was returned at the end of the stay. Def a good idea to have alcohol separately and we also told people to bring specific tea or coffee or spreads that they preferred or spices for a dish they were cooking so we didnt have to buy a load of stuff to throw it away at the end.

We go away as a similarly large party once a year, 18 adults and 6 kids for a week over new year.
Bit different here because it’s always in the U.K. but 2 different people organise 2 online shops to be delivered an hour or so after we arrive, one for food and one for booze and the details are shared so anyone can go on and add what they want.
the booze shop is split totally evenly between all drinkers, the food shop split between all people but children count as half.
everyone fends for themselves for breakfast, we usually go out every day for a walk and pub lunch and then for dinner we have a themed cooking night, Mexican/italian/greek etc with New Year’s Day always being curry day.
there are a core few who get involved in the cooking, everyone else chips in with the clearing up.
I think we usually end up paying £300 for the 5 of us (4 adults and 1dc) in the initial shop and then the additional booze top ups we just share out accordingly, someone will get some on our travels during the day and someone else the next day, it balances out as someone would has picked up logs, it all just comes out in the wash. It helps that absolutely no one is a CF cheapskate and in fact we all end up trying to pay for everything - it really can work out well doing these big family holidays.
I would just be tempted to say to people that dinner will be sorted and to let them all
figure out their daily food. You don’t know what time people will get up and I’d not want to have to get up at a specific time for breakfast on holiday.
good luck though, we actually have a big French family holiday coming up in the summer too!

Don't forget to allow something in the budget for kitchen towel, cling film, dishwasher tablets/washing up liquid , squirty stuff for cleaning tables, loo roll etc.
I think the non working people should pay the same amount as the rest. Its not as if they're going to eat less because they don't work.

We also make rules for large family events (our most recent was over 30 people in a large country house).
No going into bedrooms of others.
If you're on cooking detail you don't do washing up.

Some areas of the place are designated quiet places.
A tea urn is hired and the first into the kitchen in the morning fills it and turns it on (also doubles as hot water for washing up).

The non working adult needs to pay their way too and the teens need to be covered by their parents (maybe at a half rate to an adult). I personally wouldn’t want to cover other peoples kids just because the organiser thought they shouldn’t be included. The only kids I’d happily cover in my family is my brothers daughter but I wouldn’t want to be paying for any cousins kids etc.

You say some people are only there 3/5/7 days and the problem with that is the people who are their a weekend only won’t want to pay for a full week.

Id probably say it’s £10 a day for everyone (£5 a day for teen).
so that’s £70 for every person their a full week
£50 for someone that’s their 5 nights
and £30 for people who are their 3 nights

Everyone pays for their own booze and anyone who wants some extra fancy treats buys it themselves.

Id keep breakfast pretty simple, toast, crumpets, cereal, pastries & bacon/sausage rolls etc (but that could be because I don’t like big breakfasts so wouldn’t want a full English being cooked every day). That will also keep costs down so essentially the budget is being used for some snacks and evening meals.

Even if you don’t think £10 a day per person is enough I would keep it as a per day amount so you can base it on how many people are their for how many days etc

On a recent holiday with a group we used an app called spilt wise - you set up a group (who will be buying and splitting costs) and as you go you input anything you spend on for the group, and it tallies up what everyone owes. Really easy way for everyone who was buying bread, coffees, grocery shops , fuel etc to just put it on the App. https://feedback.splitwise.com/knowledgebase/articles/1088920-how-do-i-use-splitwise

See, I don't eat breakfast. Maybe a cafe au lait and a croissant at most. Are people going to be doing fry ups as well? Will I be charged for them?

Also - if you are allowed/able (if it's not a private family property) to DM me the details of the property that would be amazing. We are constantly on the lookout for the right places to travel to en masse!

So many responses and lots to think about, thank you all so much!
Bit of a consensus that I’m overplanning/micromanaging; point taken and glad to know it’s better to be relaxed than a dictator! To clarify, I definitely have asked people what they want to do and how they want to do meals and stuff. Everyone has been so great, some are cooking for the whole bunch, some are organising a buffet meal, some have volunteered to help prep or to clean up, one is organising a day trip that they want to do and I just have to let them know how many people to book for! Everyone over all is easygoing, but they do like to do things, without planning the things… and there are a few who will happily eat drink and be merry without offering a penny ! Better to set the expectations in advance. There are two sit-down meals planned, and the rest are more grazing board, buffet, or diy style. And I am still leaving room for spontaneity and deviation.
I did get in a bit of a tizzy earlier when the guest of honour called with a bunch of questions, and then had some questions about dress code! making me think I’d not sorted enough out already, but you’ve all put my mind at ease and I will tell both them and myself to chill out 😂 (no dress code planned, if anyone’s interested!)

Thank you everyone who shared their experiences, it’s helped enormously. Really appreciate everyone’s insights.

When we've done it, it's been whoever happens to be at the shop gets what we need and no one worries too much about the money. It's all you got the coffees, I'll get the ice creams, you shopped yesterday, I'll do it today

That's fine if everyone works that way. However, it falls apart if you have people who never pay for the coffees, ice creams or groceries, but raid the fridge when the groceries arrive. Likewise will there be people lazing around while others run around cooking, washing up, going to the shop for things that have run out etc?

Then you also have the 'why should I pay towards a massive fry up when I only have a coffee and a croissant for breakfast' people to account for.

@HowDidThisHappenDinesh , the recent passport thing was about passports being issued more than 10 years ago, not the amount of time left, so have a look at that.

Another thing, remember to be grateful, or for the guest of honour (GOH)to be grateful to all attendees/contributors. Even if accommodation is free, people are still spending their hard earned money, annual leave and time to be there for the GOH. I'm sure there will be some spouses/partners that are there as a kindness to their other half, important to remember that too.

Good luck, I have to say that I would find it extremely challenging not to be in control of my/my DC's food during a holiday. The money wouldn't bother me so much.

Consider hiring a chef for a night. We did this on a very similar trip to France (for only about 15 🤣) and it was brilliant- meal out vibes but at home. And after we'd all experienced the difficulties of cooking for a large number, it felt to everyone like money very well spent!

Food is eyewateringly expensive in France so be prepared for that! Probably a third more than the uk (particularly if you are more of a Lidl than an Ocado shopper)

But ironically not more expensive to eat out which is much better value than the uk

I'll make a bet that most of your carefully thought out arrangements will fly out of the window once the holiday starts!

We’ve used Splitwise too (someone suggested up thread) and that worked well for this sort of thing.

I think the teenager and unemployed adult need to pay their way, either by themselves or a parent. Totally fair to say £100pp from every family. Even "guest of honour". Then if parents if unemployed adult or the teens parents want to sub their kid, then they can. But you need £2500 in food kitty to begin with.

Not entirely sure why the unemployed adult can't contribute? It's not like they have zero money surely? And they presumably pay for things at home somehow?

Yes, it sounds like the parents of the unemployed adult, and the teens need to pay for them.

We had a group holiday in France last year - 8 adults.

1 person did a rough meal plan for the first few days. But it was very loose and centred around something which could just go on the BBQ or in the oven and a couple of big veg/salad sides and 1 or 2 carbs. They did a big shop for that and stuff like snacks, cereal, jam etc.

Breakfast involved us taking it in turns to go to the boulangerie and getting pastries and bread. We then generally went out in the mornings- either for a walk, or to a market, sightseeing etc. Lunch was generally part of that.

We ate out once and got takeaway pizzas one night.

At the end of the week, the person who had shopped worked out who had been around for which communal meals (not everyone arrived on the same day) and just divided by the number of people. Very straightforward. Everyone was in agreement with that plan beforehand though.

Some form of kitty seems essential, to avoid duplication, but also clear agreement about what's in and what's not.

And teens/non workers should definitely count. I wouldn't be happy to subsidise someone else's teens. I don't eat that much, so I know I'm always on the wrong end of any even splitting of food costs. But I would never query/quibble about an even split. But I would draw the line at paying for hollow-legged teenagers who belong to someone else!

I would share the load and would not be offering to do every supermarket run. It would be more useful for each couple to do a supermarket run so they have some concept of costs and the efforts involved of magically making food appear!

It would be reasonable for each couple / family to be responsbile for one large meal,, with maybe 2 couples sharing the large meal where everyone is present and each family / group, being largely responsible for their own breakfasts / lunch... they can offer to share if they feel they want to.

Alcohol is tricky.... but again, each person should be largely responsible for their own alcohol.

If there is an expectation that each couple goes to the supermarket, cleans up after themselves and is responsible in the kitchen on at least one evening, then the workload and financial obligations should be relatively easily shared. Put those likely to shirk their responsibilities in the middle of the week so expectations are set but not so late so any underperformance can be excused.

In additon, you could put all supermarket receipts into a spreadsheet and re allocate at the end if there are any large discrepancies.

£10 per person per day seems insanely low. I live in France.

. If we go through it too fast I'm not sure what we'll do.

I think you are to be admired taking this on. The actual ground rules matter much less than having a set everyone is signed up to follow.

The kitty running out is one scenario you really need to be prepared for, otherwise some people might think their initial contribution is all they need to budget for.

I'd reallly encourage you to get a few key people to sign up to the rules and then tell everyone else how it's going to be.

Good luck