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Newborn kit ?

22 replies

amythompson62 · 04/12/2023 07:39

Hi there,

Due with our first child in mid March and off to Montenegro at the end of May for a close friends wedding ….

We have already purchased a travel system with a a lie flat car seat (Cybex Cloud T), as well as a great deal on a travel cot with newborn bassinet .

Question: is there value in bringing the carrycot that comes with the pram , too (it isn’t overnight sleeping approved) ? When out and about we could use the car seat for snoozes, and when in the apartment we have the travel cot …. Is that a silly idea or am I missing a scenario where the carrycot would be useful ?

Trying to work out how to trim down the mountain of luggage we seem to are going to need if we can !

Thanks all!

OP posts:
reluctantbrit · 04/12/2023 07:44

A newborn shouldn't be in a car seat outside the car. Yes, I know it's convenient and for a 10 minute shop it may not matter but not for a stroll.

I would get a front carrier or wrap instead which is suitable for a newborn if you don't want to bring the whole pram.

2fast2upset · 04/12/2023 07:49

Take the pram bassinet and your car seat for car journeys. no need for the travel cot.

your baby will be very small and should not be having long naps in a car seat on the pram adaptor clips- it isn’t safe.

although the bassinet is not approved for overnight sleep- it will be fine. We did this lots when travelling with a tiny baby. It’s just a big Moses basket and will not impede your baby’s breathing like the car seat will. They can’t ’approve’ it for overnight sleep because they can’t test it as such.

2fast2upset · 04/12/2023 07:57

Also- a tiny baby is unlikely to go down to sleep in a giant vast travel cot. Seriously unlikely. They are spacious and low to the ground so a bigger ‘drop’ to transfer which gives them more opportunities to wake.

we had ‘easy’ babies- but in the situation where you describe, baby would happily go to sleep snuggled up in the pram- so we would do laps with the pram in many a hotel lobby then unclip the bassinet and move it over to our bedside OR they’d end up in bed with me.

our travel cot came in handy when they were mobile at about 8 months- we would use to it contain them like a playpen, but it’s never been great for sleep.

SiouxsieSiouxStiletto · 04/12/2023 08:04

DS slept in the carrycot thing that came with his travel system a fair bit. I too don't think that the travel cot would work? Are you flying or driving?

amythompson62 · 04/12/2023 11:17

Hi all - travel cot has a snug newborn inlay that sits raised off the ground . There are plenty of pram bassinets that are approved for overnight sleeping but ours isn’t one of them unfortunately ….. Cloud T car seat is fully lie flat so the normal rules don’t apply as far as I understand (the whole point of going for a lie flat was to increase options)….

OP posts:
2fast2upset · 04/12/2023 11:28

amythompson62 · 04/12/2023 11:17

Hi all - travel cot has a snug newborn inlay that sits raised off the ground . There are plenty of pram bassinets that are approved for overnight sleeping but ours isn’t one of them unfortunately ….. Cloud T car seat is fully lie flat so the normal rules don’t apply as far as I understand (the whole point of going for a lie flat was to increase options)….

Well if your car seat is safe for sleep and it’s been approved for that then that is fine?

but tbh you can’t really plan this until the baby is here.

Your baby might only want to sleep on you- so why would you lug a travel cot on holiday?

revisit this a week before your trip.

BertieBotts · 04/12/2023 11:34

The Cloud T is not as flat as a carrycot, and it's still restrictive to baby's position - all car seats will be because they need to prevent the baby flying around in the event of a car accident. There's no "official" exception to the rule for these seats. I think the marketing is a bit misleading in that area. If you look on their FAQs they even say something vague about not leaving the baby in the car seat for long periods "for safety reasons".

BUT also, it's a guideline not a law - you can make your own judgement. The guidelines for time limits are not really based on seats that are designed like this. They are based more on seats which are less supportive and more upright. However having said this, fully reclined the "lie flat" seats such as Cloud T are still steeper than 10 degrees incline. The Fisher Price Rock n Play Sleeper was recalled in the US because it was found to be responsible for around 100 deaths (30 before the recall, 70 after). The Rock n Play has an incline of 30 degrees - the recommended maximum incline for sleep safety is 10 degrees.

Cybex Cloud T is somewhere between 10 and 30. The exact angle probably varies based on the angle of the adapters on the buggy. 30 degrees is more like the angle in a typical infant car seat without the "lie flat" feature. And the Rock n Play was especially problematic because it was marketed as a sleep space, meaning many people used it for unsupervised naps and/or overnight.

Carrycots are considered beneficial for two reasons - first you get that totally flat surface less than 10 degree incline which is considered safest for sleep and airway position. If it's not approved for overnight sleep this benefit doesn't go away, that is probably more due to airflow in the side panels, so it's OK for supervised sleep, when you're awake, but you should not let babies sleep in it and go to sleep yourself especially for hours. It also won't be that it's definitely UNsafe for sleep, but more that it doesn't have the correct certification.

The other benefit of the carrycot is that babies need some time every day outside of "containers" ie devices where they are held in a specific position and usually restrained using safety straps. They need time to lie flat on a surface like a cot, playpen or blanket on the floor, in order to develop their gross motor skills - rolling, sitting, pushing up etc. A car seat is counted as a container whereas a carrycot is classed as a flat surface.

I don't think you necessarily need a carrycot though - it just depends on how your pram works for the recline, and how much you intend to use the pram. A lot of the Cybex ones do have a seat unit which can be opened out completely flat which is what I looked for and used when my children were tiny. And then I just let them have plenty of time to roll around on the floor, our bed etc rather than keeping them strapped into things all the time.

BertieBotts · 04/12/2023 11:38

Bear in mind if you do bring the carrycot and car seat and pushchair seat, these will probably count in total as three pieces of baby equipment.

If you have a seat for the baby on the plane you might be able to bring the car seat into the cabin to put the baby in rather than on your lap. But carrycot OR pram seat will be counted as the pushchair, and the other piece will be separate equipment. Travel cot including attachment assuming it all zips up tohether, will be counted as 1 piece of equipment.

If you want to bring the pushchair to the gate it usually has to be one that folds in one piece.

You will probably have more of an idea of what you want to do by April, if you can postpone the decision about which bits to take until then.

DuploTrain · 04/12/2023 11:38

If you have the travel cot in the apartment and you are just using the lie flat car seat when your are out and about, personally I would be comfortable with that.

I would get the baby out frequently though, and also consider a baby carrier.

FoxtrotSkarloey · 04/12/2023 11:52

I don't know much about lie flat car seats, and you've got a really good answer from @BertieBotts who knows her stuff. IME, the benefit of them is to allow longer car journeys, when you would have to make frequent stops otherwise.

If your bassinet is not sleep approved, then you definitely need the travel cot. The baby will need somewhere to lie flat and have space.

As to whether you need the bassinet, you're probably best to wait and see how the baby is... will s/he be happy in the car seat instead of a pram for a bit? Could you use a sling instead?

The other things you could do (more cost, I know!), if the car seat is compatible with maxi Cosi adapters, is buy a small lightweight pram, which lies flats enough for newborns, but which can also take a car seat. We had a Joie Pact for exactly this reason and it was amazing. This would then do the job of the travel system wheels and bassinet, but still enable you to push the car seat if you wanted to.

DuploTrain · 04/12/2023 12:19

p.s. even for bassinets/carry cots that are approved for overnight sleep, I still wouldn’t use one - they’re very small and usually not that comfy. My DS definitely wouldn’t have slept in his overnight.

BertieBotts · 04/12/2023 12:25

Cynically, the benefit of them is marketing.

Practically, I do agree that the position DC are in in a higher end lie flat type car seat and/or one with well designed inserts is a huge amount better than the position that babies were in in the older, more basic style of infant car seat that were on the market even just 10/15 years ago. And therefore if you're happy with the position of the baby then you may feel comfortable to stretch the time limits as recommended, because these are based on those older, less supportive types of car seat design. But again there is no "official" exemption for time limits when driving either.

This is unfortunately really hard to read because it's wayback machine, but it still has the pictures and is the best thing I've come across to explain the problem with the positioning of the older style of car seats (even though it refers to slings it was a style of slings no longer sold, which had the same issue). Most modern car seats do not have the same problem, IMO parents should be aware of the underlying reason for recommendations. It makes sense for the recommendations to stay because many people will be using older or more basic car seats, and there is basically no risk from sticking to the recommended time limits apart from inconvenience. But if it is inconvenient enough to want to work around it, understanding the reasoning behind the rule makes sense.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130728110538/babyslingsafety.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://web.archive.org/web/20130728110538/babyslingsafety.blogspot.com/

Baby Carriers - Correct Positioning & Safety

https://web.archive.org/web/20130728110538/http://babyslingsafety.blogspot.com

BertieBotts · 04/12/2023 12:26

Link went weird, but the preview box version works.

DuploTrain · 04/12/2023 12:30

@BertieBotts please could you do the link again? The version in the box is taking me to a list of articles in (I think) Italian.

goababy · 04/12/2023 12:38

The Cybex car seat isn't fully lie flat. It does recline quite a lot when outside of the car, but not to the level I'd be comfortable using it instead of a pram for an extended period. I have this car seat and have used it for a newborn within the last 6 months so very familiar with it.

How often are you using the car while away? Car hire companies will rent you a car seat so you don't need to take one, though I understand the uncertainty about which model/you don't know the history of it can be nerve wracking.

Do you need to take a travel cot or could the place you're staying provide one?

I would prioritise taking the bassinet for your pram over almost anything else for a 6 week old baby, as they will likely spend most of their time lying down/asleep.

Dinoswearunderpants · 04/12/2023 12:49

Please buy bags to protect your pram/car seat etc as when they go in the hold, they don't care if they get wet.

You've received some great advice. I also recommend bringing the carry cot for the pram. Could you not ask the accommodation if they have a travel pack and play for little one to sleep in? Just bring your own firm mattress.

I travelled often with my little one at that age and always used the accommodation travel cots.

Behindyouiam · 04/12/2023 20:02

reluctantbrit · 04/12/2023 07:44

A newborn shouldn't be in a car seat outside the car. Yes, I know it's convenient and for a 10 minute shop it may not matter but not for a stroll.

I would get a front carrier or wrap instead which is suitable for a newborn if you don't want to bring the whole pram.

Not even a lie flat one?

reluctantbrit · 04/12/2023 20:30

Behindyouiam · 04/12/2023 20:02

Not even a lie flat one?

I must admit, my knowledge is several yeas old but a car seat is not designed for a baby to stretch, move, kick. Obviously for a reason so with gut feeling I wouldn't keep a young baby in even a flat one for too long.

BertieBotts · 04/12/2023 20:53

DuploTrain · 04/12/2023 12:30

@BertieBotts please could you do the link again? The version in the box is taking me to a list of articles in (I think) Italian.

This is what happened to the website in about 2015, it must be showing you a newer version for some reason. If you have the wayback overlay you can try choosing an earlier date on that.

You can go to the wayback machine and just put into the box "babyslingsafety.blogspot.com" and pick an earlier date like 2012 or 2013.

Or let's see if this works but it might do the same thing again:

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130728110538/babyslingsafety.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://web.archive.org/web/20130728110538/babyslingsafety.blogspot.com

Baby Carriers - Correct Positioning & Safety

https://web.archive.org/web/20130728110538/http://babyslingsafety.blogspot.com

BertieBotts · 04/12/2023 20:54

Yeah it doesn't like it because of the double http. Sorry.

LiquoriceAllsorts2 · 05/12/2023 23:07

You could look to get smaller/more compact items.

the little life arc 2 is a very lightweight and compact travel cot which would be suitable.
i don’t really understand why you need a newborn bassinet insert in your travel cot, the travel cot should be suitable from birth without it I would have thought.

the Joolz aer plus pushchair is suitable from birth in full recline mode and there are other suitable travel pushchairs that could also work so you wouldn’t need your big pram.

definitely take a carrier.

LittleBearPad · 05/12/2023 23:14

Be careful taking an expensive pram system. Baggage handlers aren’t careful if any of it goes in the hold.

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