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Original poster

Not compulsory school age term time holiday

157 replies

Senners · 24/09/2023 07:57

My child will start school next September 2024 and will turn 5 at the end of September so a few weeks after she starts. Am I right in thinking she's not compulsory school age until 1st January 2025 so I could take her out of school between September and December without a fine? Thinking of a short break in Nov, but not if there's a risk of fine. Thanks

OP posts:
greengreengrass25 · 24/09/2023 18:39

Redlocks28 · 24/09/2023 18:28

I'm not in UK but hearing about the ridiculous fines imposed, I find it incredulous that it is policed.

I’m in the UK (and a teacher) and still think it’s a stupid policy! Interesting that private school parents can take their kids out whenever they want to on holiday; there’s no fines for them!

So do I

I never took mine out apart from when ED was in nursery.

Used to have 2 weeks' leeway back in the 70s

mummyh2016 · 24/09/2023 19:05

SleeplessinSeattle53 · 24/09/2023 18:05

I didn't state it was going to ruin their education. I just said I don't want to see other people's school aged kids on my holidays when I've been there and done that with my own. I don't think I'm alone in that opinion.

No you're not alone, my parents are the exact same. Which is why they book adult only hotels. Yes you may have some kids on the plane but 4-8 hours (depending on where you're going) of putting up with it over a week isn't imo the end of the world. And isn't what this thread is about.

S910441 · 24/09/2023 19:08

wafflingworrier · 24/09/2023 08:38

You COULD tke her out but it will massively impact her confidence and schooling.
Once all settled, children at my school in reception learn new letters/sounds in phonics at a rate of 1 or 2 a day alongside recapping previously learnt sounds. So if you take your child out for 2 weeks that means, from the start, she will be placed into a "catch up" class when she returns.
Alongside the most disruptive children.
She will loose more playing time as her teachers try to plug the gap in learning you have created, as they will grab her any chance they get to do phonics with her.
So, yes you can.
If you think making the rest of her journey into reading unpleasant and knocking her confidence is worth it.

I am a teacher, I have seen it countless times. It is so sad.

Put it this way, no teachers EVER take their kids out of school during term time for a holiday.

The irony...

Shaw55 · 24/09/2023 19:16

smartiesneberhadtheanswer · 24/09/2023 08:42

LOL you're funny, primary schools aren't generally big enough to have 'catch up' classes, the OPs daughter will be with her normal class. And there SUCH a range of abilities when they start reception due to quality of pre school etc that the OPs kid might already be a term ahead!!

Show quote history

Not true under the new phonics programmes.

Teaching is planned out to meet the programme and continues at pacem day after day - as the programme demands.

Children who fall behind have to be supported to catch up. In schools I work with, at another point in the school day ( individually or in small groups) - so missing other learning.

gogomoto · 24/09/2023 19:22

No you won't be fined unless she's five but it's not fair to take her out just as she's setting in. Go in June!

addictedtotheflats · 24/09/2023 19:26

Just take her on holiday. Your child could have chickenpox for 7 days and miss the same amount of school. Unfortunately we live in a world where many people can't afford holidays in school holidays, we booked for beginning of may next year, may half term was £1800 more, double what we paid.

BlueIgIoo · 24/09/2023 19:43

Shaw55 · 24/09/2023 19:16

Not true under the new phonics programmes.

Teaching is planned out to meet the programme and continues at pacem day after day - as the programme demands.

Children who fall behind have to be supported to catch up. In schools I work with, at another point in the school day ( individually or in small groups) - so missing other learning.

Show quote history

But you know not all children would need that catch up. My summer born daughter knew all of Phase 2 phonics before she started school, so if she'd missed a lesson she wouldn't need to catch it up. There are always the kids in your class who miss and day or two for whatever reason and you know they'll slot right into what ever you're teaching the next day, and at the other end of the scale there are children who wouldn't have achieved the lesson objective even if they had been there. I'm always much more concerned about the children who frequently miss a day here and there for a tiny sniffle (which often just means parents can't be bothered to get them to school). They almost always have much lower attendance than children who have the odd Monday off to go the Center Parcs.

allhellcantstopusnow · 24/09/2023 19:59

Put it this way, no teachers EVER take their kids out of school during term time for a holiday.

Presumably because they are at work...?

Original poster
Senners · 24/09/2023 20:11

Out of interest what is the new phonics programme you're talking about and what do you teach each day in reception at pace? I'm just asking because she's not even 4 yet and confident with letters and well into learning phonics and writing following the dotted lines etx (we do try to do extra at home when we can) so just curious what she would be missing next year for a few days if she's already doing this now at nursery or kindergarten as mine call it?

OP posts:
Original poster
Senners · 24/09/2023 20:16

gogomoto · 24/09/2023 19:22

No you won't be fined unless she's five but it's not fair to take her out just as she's setting in. Go in June!

I was thinking end Nov/early December so will of been there 3 months by then

OP posts:
Original poster
Senners · 24/09/2023 20:18

Shaw55 · 24/09/2023 19:16

Not true under the new phonics programmes.

Teaching is planned out to meet the programme and continues at pacem day after day - as the programme demands.

Children who fall behind have to be supported to catch up. In schools I work with, at another point in the school day ( individually or in small groups) - so missing other learning.

Show quote history

Out of interest what is the new phonics programme you're talking about and what do you teach each day in reception at pace? I'm just asking because she's not even 4 yet and confident with letters and well into learning phonics and writing following the dotted lines etc (we do try to do extra at home when we can) so just curious what she would be in a years time for a few days if she's already doing this now at nursery or kindergarten as mine call it?

OP posts:
Original poster
Senners · 24/09/2023 20:29

BlueIgIoo · 24/09/2023 19:43

But you know not all children would need that catch up. My summer born daughter knew all of Phase 2 phonics before she started school, so if she'd missed a lesson she wouldn't need to catch it up. There are always the kids in your class who miss and day or two for whatever reason and you know they'll slot right into what ever you're teaching the next day, and at the other end of the scale there are children who wouldn't have achieved the lesson objective even if they had been there. I'm always much more concerned about the children who frequently miss a day here and there for a tiny sniffle (which often just means parents can't be bothered to get them to school). They almost always have much lower attendance than children who have the odd Monday off to go the Center Parcs.

Show quote history

This is so true @BlueIgIoo if she was behind and struggling or in any way needing extra support etc I would not take her out, but if she's doing well I don't think in the grand scheme of life it's going to affect anyone much, but will affect our bank balance massively. And my kid's fabulous Christmassy memories, as we wouldn't be able to go in school hol prices. Like I said earlier, I don't think I will even do it after she's compulsory school age, I was just thinking of one last hoorah. Got a couple of term time holidays booked in next year (sorry to the ones that hate kids being at their term time holidays) whilst she's still in nursery, so some of the kids you're judging on your term time hols will be 4 or under and still in nursery or not at all and have as much right to be on that term time plane and hol as you 😊

OP posts:
Shaw55 · 24/09/2023 20:38

BlueIgIoo · 24/09/2023 19:43

But you know not all children would need that catch up. My summer born daughter knew all of Phase 2 phonics before she started school, so if she'd missed a lesson she wouldn't need to catch it up. There are always the kids in your class who miss and day or two for whatever reason and you know they'll slot right into what ever you're teaching the next day, and at the other end of the scale there are children who wouldn't have achieved the lesson objective even if they had been there. I'm always much more concerned about the children who frequently miss a day here and there for a tiny sniffle (which often just means parents can't be bothered to get them to school). They almost always have much lower attendance than children who have the odd Monday off to go the Center Parcs.

Show quote history

With respect, with a long background in phonics and in an advisory capacity, the new programmes are very prescriptive and working with schools I see the catch up required.
Time out of school - catch up with the specific programme is required to ensure the high level of consistency that the reading framework demands. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-reading-framework-teaching-the-foundations-of-literacy

The reading framework

Guidance for primary and secondary schools to meet existing expectations for teaching reading.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-reading-framework-teaching-the-foundations-of-literacy

Shaw55 · 24/09/2023 20:40

Senners · 24/09/2023 20:18

Out of interest what is the new phonics programme you're talking about and what do you teach each day in reception at pace? I'm just asking because she's not even 4 yet and confident with letters and well into learning phonics and writing following the dotted lines etc (we do try to do extra at home when we can) so just curious what she would be in a years time for a few days if she's already doing this now at nursery or kindergarten as mine call it?

Show quote history

I have posted above, the new reading framework.

The specifics depend on the government approved programme that individual schools have chosen to adopt.

Original poster
Senners · 24/09/2023 20:47

Ah ok, fair enough. I understand how it would be detrimental if it there was a lot of absences and not fair. But I'm pretty confident she will be ok, even without catching up. She's still going to grow up and be able to read and write and have friends and soon enough no one will remember the 4 or 5 days she missed in reception. I just don't like when people are so aggressive about it, like it's seriously going to damage her or her teacher/peers for life when it's really not.

OP posts:
BlueIgIoo · 24/09/2023 21:04

Shaw55 · 24/09/2023 20:38

With respect, with a long background in phonics and in an advisory capacity, the new programmes are very prescriptive and working with schools I see the catch up required.
Time out of school - catch up with the specific programme is required to ensure the high level of consistency that the reading framework demands. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-reading-framework-teaching-the-foundations-of-literacy

Show quote history

Perhaps you missed (fair enough, it's a long thread) that I'm also a teacher. I've taught Reception and I've taught phonics. I'm entirely confident my child would not (indeed, did not) require any catch up sessions.

S910441 · 24/09/2023 22:11

gogomoto · 24/09/2023 19:22

No you won't be fined unless she's five but it's not fair to take her out just as she's setting in. Go in June!

But she'll be five by then...

S910441 · 24/09/2023 22:15

Senners · 24/09/2023 20:47

Ah ok, fair enough. I understand how it would be detrimental if it there was a lot of absences and not fair. But I'm pretty confident she will be ok, even without catching up. She's still going to grow up and be able to read and write and have friends and soon enough no one will remember the 4 or 5 days she missed in reception. I just don't like when people are so aggressive about it, like it's seriously going to damage her or her teacher/peers for life when it's really not.

I agree entirely. And you could always do some reading together while you're away.

(And when one of the teachers on here can't spell "lose" she might be better off anyway...)

Uggtrending · 24/09/2023 23:31

@Mademetoxic quite frankly it's none of your business where people choose to take their kid. It makes me laugh people complain about kids but will book places with a waterpark, kids club and disco. Yes they will be kids all year round 😀

ludocris · 24/09/2023 23:33

You can still get fined before they're CSA. We did.

Shaw55 · 25/09/2023 08:07

BlueIgIoo · 24/09/2023 21:04

Perhaps you missed (fair enough, it's a long thread) that I'm also a teacher. I've taught Reception and I've taught phonics. I'm entirely confident my child would not (indeed, did not) require any catch up sessions.

Show quote history

You are a teacher, you know how to help your daughter, to pre-teach with consistency to the programme.

Those skills and knowledge are not typical of all parents, or of the OP. The vast majority of children require support to catch up, with the programme after missing school.

Original poster
Senners · 25/09/2023 08:27

ludocris · 24/09/2023 23:33

You can still get fined before they're CSA. We did.

I'm pretty sure you can't looking at the legislation it clearly says fines are applicable once a child reaches compulsory school age, and then goes on to explain compulsory school age is first term after their 5th birthday. I did read someone who got fined in error before they were CSA and once they pointed this out they LA apologised and the fine was revoked

OP posts:
Original poster
Senners · 25/09/2023 08:31

Shaw55 · 25/09/2023 08:07

You are a teacher, you know how to help your daughter, to pre-teach with consistency to the programme.

Those skills and knowledge are not typical of all parents, or of the OP. The vast majority of children require support to catch up, with the programme after missing school.

Show quote history

I may not be a teacher but I think I could catch her up on 4 days of missed phonics, I am an adult who can read and speak English... and she will be a 5 year old. I wouldn't claim to be able to catch up a English/maths/science student at GCSE or A Level though.

OP posts:
Redlocks28 · 25/09/2023 08:36

ludocris · 24/09/2023 23:33

You can still get fined before they're CSA. We did.

We don’t fine for anyone under 5-that sounds like it was done in error.