Do we accept a trip to Australia for xmas? Advice neefded!

[Expatty]

Hi everyone - I'm in a state of confusion and was hoping some kind folks would indulge me sharing my predicament and give their input.

I am an Australian expat living here in the UK and i have a little girl who's about to turn 1. We took her to Australia to visit family with a stay in Singapore enroute back in April/May for a month, and it was very challenging. The travel itself was ok, but we didn't have the best luck in terms of timing and she was teething terribly (her first 3 teeth at once), so the humidty/jetlag/general interruption combined with that made for an unhappy baby and unhappy parents. We also managed to catch an australian strain of covid that included conjuncitivites and it was an all-round not-so-fun time.
Anyway we had put that behind us but it obviously has left a few mental scars, and in the meantime here my partner's parents who haven't been at all involved in my daughters life so far have separated and it's very messy, raising the issue of what we do for xmas.

If we stay here we can spend perhaps xmas even and half of xmas day with my brother in law and his little girl, but it won't be the most family-orientated of days, and after a row of bad xmasses (covid and then suffered some personal losses which meant isolated xmasses) I really wanted to be with a family unit.

My parents have offered to pay for flights for us to come back to Aus, and while many people think we are crazy for not instantly going for that it seems a big mental leap to gear ourselves up for a second round-the-world flight with a baby in a year. She's currently teething again (molars are coming through and we are not sleeping!) so that doesn't help, but she's definitely more mobile and will be walking by the time we fly, whereas before at least she slept easily in the basinet. There's also the fact that el nino has now been declared in aus and it's likely to be very hot, so potentially a big shock for her. Additionally the xmas in australia isn't at my parents house this year but at my sisters, which is fine, but isn't that classis nostalic xmas feel. We'd be staying at my parents where it may not be fully decorated and xmassy, and then going to my sister's in another city for a few days.

I'd love to hear what others would do in this situation. For my little girl she would get to see my grandparents (who she loves 'talking' with on facetime) and my nieces and nephews, but it's a lot of disruption for her (we'd likely stay somewhere on the way again such as dubai/sungapore/seoul etc).
If we stayed here she doesn't get to see them but does get to see my other little niece here.

My family are coming to visit in May, so it won't be long till they come again but I'm also conscious they aren't getting any younger and I don't want this to be something I regret when they are no longer with us (she is changing so fast!). I can face the flight and travel stress, my partner is less keen but is willing to do what I think is best.

Thanks to anyone that made it this far - I'd love to know what others would do in this situation - it may not seem a big deal but is to me and i would appreciate any feedback.

How long could you go for? Less than 2 weeks off and I think the jetlag outweighs the good points. And you’d only really get a week with your parents after you factor in travel plus a couple of days in Singapore/Dubai/Seoul en route.

We went backwards and forwards with both dc when they were this age- not a fun trip but I'd do it again especially if 2 adults and only 1dc. Take it in turns on plane to entertain and walk up and down, take lots of little things to entertain your toddler, they're definitely more portable as babies! Oh and we booked a seat for our toddler and would definitely recommend, we needed the space and he could sit and play/watch bits abd we could be untouched for a while! We found going straight through wasvetter than stopping off in Singapore or somewhere as you get all travelling done in one go and dc slept for a good portion of one flight as its 24hr ish where as when we stopped off they refuelled, slept and were wide awake for the next 12 hr leg!

I would go and do it whilst you don't have to consider school or elderly parents, it will be fun to be with family although Christmas in Australia for me never felt Christmassy but I'm raised in uk.

No brainer. Parents coming in May, just wait and see them then. Your child is 1yo, they won’t remember their cousins or this Xmas whatsoever. However, the plane trip with a toddler who (rightly) doesn’t want to be contained is an utter nightmare for themselves, their parents and every other passenger around on the plane. Spare everyone the grief.

The El Niño thing is a furphy. Climate change is real, and it is happening, in no way denying that but we had hotter summers several decades ago. When I was young schools sent students home when it reached around 35deg. Just released everyone including 5yo’s to make their way home (no kidding) and if you were unlucky enough to have to catch the bus you had to go sit in a hot hall until bus time / no air con back then! We went home plenty. It actually seemed to cool down on average overall for a few decades and now getting back more like my childhood several decades ago. If you have come from Aus, you probably got lucky in the interceding period. We lived. Uncomfortably, but people didn’t whinge, no point and that predated air con, current insulated house requirements and modern cons. So, you’ll be fine😊.

I wouldn’t go to aus again with a dd that age. If older (6+) maybe. But is easy for me to say when I don’t have parents the other side of the world. Is a tough one.

How long would you be there, how much time would you spend with your parents?

I still think I'd try to go if I could make it work.

Your parents will love to see her. I presume you can spend time indoors where its cooler?

But the flights will be hellish. I think that's a hard age, when they're mobile but can't understand why they have to sit still.

Mobile, but too young to sit and stare at a film, is the absolute worst for travel.

I'd leave it for this Christmas, and plan to go when the weather would be better in Aus, ad your daughter a bit older (unless baby 2 is being considered, in which case go before they arrive!)

I took my ds1 to oz at 3 months then 12 months then 2 years when he was walking and while every trip was fucking awful by far the worst one was when he was walking. Granted I was taking him
on my own so no adult backup but it was a nightmare. He was too young to be reasoned with and too old to keep in his seat. I’d never do that again. I’d say wait until she is older . Nothing you have described about what happens when you get there sounds like the Xmas break you hope for anyway. Your parents may be disappointed but they’ll survive. But from everything you describe none of it is ideal. And if you do go look up things called earplanes. They help with ear pain for kitties and I swear by them. Xx

we would go in a heartbeat. We are Aussie and had our dc in london so one year we flew back with a 6mo and a 3.5yo and arrived midnight Christmas Eve then had the big family Christmas the afternoon of Christmas Day. You just super plan for the flight, go ok it will be an endurance event and we just swap off who is on parenting and take turns walking bub around the plane /playing wiht all the toys and snacks and baby apps. I do not do stop overs as I think they just extend the pain- do the trip and you’re there.

I’d go in a heartbeat BUT I travel frequently solo with my two (including when they were under 2 and have done long haul). Fly overnight and they’ll sleep. Yes the flight is a bit of a pain, and maybe we’ve been lucky, but we adapt to new locations pretty quickly. And love getting the time to be with family/friends/in loved places.

For me- it’s more about the time you get to spend with your own family, than the memories your kids will make (at 1 they’ve no concept of Christmas yet). But I do understand why others are asking how long you can be there for. Realistically I always “write off” a day of travel and at least one day after as “transition days” - days where we are grumpy and fit for nothing/need to do playground type activities that fit kids needs (rather than presume they could manage a family catch up dinner for example). Would you have that buffer?

Can they come to you?

@HoppingPavlova it is hotter. There’s no point at all telling people it was hotter in my day! It wasn’t. Unless you are arguing that your day was 300 hundred years ago and predated our records for australia but even then we have data and it’s just not true.

Honestly whether you go or not, and I'd go don't do a stopover, you're just prolonging the misery and she won't sleep on either flights. Believe me, after a certain length of travel they all conk out and sleep for 12 hours straight

The crucial bit of information is how long can you go for? 10 days, 2 weeks, 1 month? Yes the flight is an endurance race but if you've time to recover on the other end not such an issue, but if its less than 2 weeks and needs to include an internal Aus trip to get to your sisters I'd be reluctant. Parents will be disappointed but you can bunker down to a family Christmas at your place.

I wouldn't go, it is the worst age. Flew 14 hours with DTs at that age and that nearly broke me. There were tears involved in all sides.

@Codlingmoths I’m not too old to remember the frequency we were sent home from school due to being over 35deg thanks. Absolutely more than the days over 35 when my kids were at school (they were not sent home but also, all air con’d at that point), nor last few years, including one ‘great summer’ when it was cold and rained from beginning to end, and actually freakishly snowed in some areas at Xmas - Google that, all fact.

Thanks everyone for all the help so far, what a helpful space. Lots of people asking how long we'd go for: We are self employed so quite flexible; wouldn't have to do much work and anything we do need to do can be done from there. But we wouldn't want to be gone for ages as family are in a rural town and apart from seeing the family there isn;'t much to do and we wouldn't want to complicate things but making it a big aus trip with more internal travel. So realistically between 2 and 3 weeks.

And yes there's an option to not to the stopover, it's just from our own personal exprience that stopover helps. When we recently went to singapore that bit actually was helpful we found. We've done the trip now perhaps 16 times and tried all sorts of setups but always willing to hear advice and reconsider tactics.

Also worth adding that the flights are likel to be something like a 14hr and a 7hr, something like that for those not sure on the flight lengths to aus (people are always surprised when i tell them!)

Your daughter is going to be entirely indifferent to whatever you decide, so it really comes down to what you both really want. That yearning for family Christmas is very real, particularly when you are an expat, so I'd be inclined to jump on the plane. I'm also seemingly a rare one that favours a stopover, these days both my kids get travel sick. They are school age now, but when we went to Sydney in the summer, we did UK -> Dubai -> Singapore -> Sydney and we slept in both Dubai and Singapore, so it was basically 3 lots of 7 or 8 hour day time flights. Dubai - Singapore featured an epic number of air sickness incidents, but they did really well with all the other flights. The journey did drag on a long time, but reckon I'd do the same again.

If you are only going for 2/3 weeks, I've maximise the time actually there. If the relative is paying for the flights, could you pay to upgrade to premium economy or business' class and forgo the stopover? You'd have more space to stretch out, and potentially take it in turns to sleep, so you arrive more rested.

@HoppingPavlova I don’t need to argue, because you can prove it if you want to move beyond anecdata. Here is the bom site showing monthly average per state, and you can find the specific weather station on the Bom site and pull up actual temperate records and do the analysis. Is the typical number of days with average temp over 30 / max temp over 35 higher than it was 30 years ago, or not. http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/climate/change/timeseries.cgi?graph=tmean&area=nsw&season=allmonths

@Codlingmoths ffs. Yes. Climate change is real. That’s a fact. On AVERAGE it is hotter. Tye data proves that. Yes, it’s real. What I was originally saying was in response to the OP blathering that potentially could not come due to weather being hot at the time she was coming. My response was, that was silly, as for 2-3 weeks there is no indication, that during THAT PARTICULAR 2-3 weeks that it would be any hotter than usual, or indeed any day over the last 100 odd years - when taking those 2-3 weeks in isolation. Also, that should disaster strike, and hot weather be experienced (in Australia, in Summer…..), then she and family would not explode as, over past 100 years, people have experienced the odd freaky spell and survived. Also, OP may come and have to rug up in a jumper as we had to a few years ago when we had a Xmas that was cold as shot (as I said with snow in some places that usually don’t get snow in summer).

But, yes, on AVERAGE it is hotter. I agree with this.

You could just do a special Xmas the three of you and start new family traditions if the family thing doesn’t work out.

I would probably consider the trip if it was fully paid for but it could be hard work. We travelled to New Zealand when DD was 8 months and the travel was tough since it took us almost 2 days travel time to get there and we were totally exhausted by the time we arrived. However she was much more difficult on a 4 hr flight to Greece at 11 months when she was a bit bigger. I think the trip to NZ would be pretty challenging now as she would no longer fit in the bassinet and it would be difficult to get her to sleep on my lap in the confined space of an economy seat. Even more challenging if she is properly mobile by then and doesn’t want to sit still. 12 months also seems a prime time for teething with each one worse than the last.

We have opted out of meeting family this year even though it would only have meant travelling half way (Asia). Just too much hard work and not much chance for us to relax even when we got there. If the trip was paid for we might have considered it though.

I wouldn't, but I hate long distance air travel. Over 40 years since I flew to Australia and still remember it as a horrendous experience.
Agree with others you need to make new traditions for your own family and try not to think about 'missing the big family experience' (your DD at this age is far too young to know or care what you do at Christmas). Just look forward to your DPs visit in May.

I would be packing and going. You can manage everything

I flew alot between Oz and UK when DD was between 3 months and 2years. My mantra was, this will all be a memory tomorrow if there were a tough section ( with both covered in vomit).

I would do it