School fines for holidays

[Aliceinwonder1]

Hi,
Not sure where to ask this but thought someone would know. I am a bit confused about the fines when taking kids out of school for holidays. We are Hampshire. Naturally their website just says attendance needed but they're not going to advertise how to get away with taking kids out not to receive a fine lol.
I thought you could get a fine if more than 10 sessions (so 5, full days) but is this all in one go or over a term? Is it best to just put down as sick as I've been advised this doesn't go against the school as such, but can the LA investigate if it's true? Although how can they prove your child wasn't sick I guess!
We're looking at taking our 2 children out of school for a few days for a holiday but I was going to ask the school, or advise them as I know they won't authorize it, but my partner said to just put it as sick.
What's best? And does anyone know the official rules as seems everyone in real life I've asked have different opinions lol

Ours is 7 days so 14 sessions but also includes days they were late or taken out for dental appointments etc in a rolling 12 week period so not even per year. You can get away with a week added onto may half term and a week added onto October, but if you took the same two weeks as a block in October you get fined.

It completely depends where you live. In Cambridgeshire they fine you for three or more consecutive days unauthorised absence, not sure about Hampshire though!

Don't put them down as sick, school will absolutely know you're lying, the kids will drop you in it and it's really insulting to the school staff to treat them like they're stupid. The 10 sessions or 5 days are all in one go. So in our LA you'd be fined for a weeks holiday but if you brought them in on Monday morning and got a flight Monday afternoon you wouldn't get a fine. Check with your LA though.

My boys school is 3 days. Friends school is 5 days. We got a fine but holiday was 40% cheaper in term time.

It's dependent on the headteacher (yes it is, ours doesn't always report to the LEA so headteachers do have some discretion despite people saying they don't) and then LEAs have different policies, I know some have a zero tolerance policy in Autumn term, others might allow up to 5 days before fining, others might be completely zero tolerance. It's BS how inconsistent it all is. We've done it a few times over the years, only once have we been reported to the LEA (different headteacher to the one listed above) and it didn't result in a fine (it was 2 separate days, summer term Y6 after SATs 🙄)

Hopefully your LEA has its policy published online, mine doesn't annoyingly!

Sorry I keep using LEA there which is possibly the wrong acronym, I just mean the local authority.

It's not published online annoyingly, I guess they don't want people to do it so they don't want to make it too easy lol.
I appreciate the comment about school knowing if they're not sick and it's not that I think they won't know...but you don't get fined for sickness and in all honesty I do think it's ridiculous I can't take my kids out for 3 or 4 days a year without having to worry about being reported etc. I absolutely know it's not the school and ours is amazing so I'd ideally want to tell them...but not if they then have to report it. Although if it's tagged onto a half term it is harder for them to disprove they were sick I suppose as they won't be there for a week anyway so in theory could just have gone away then.
Seems like it just isn't clear. Not really sure what to do with it!

I think Hampshire do publish their policy and its 10 half days. So its unlikely to makes any difference if you lie to the school (and they almost certainly will know you have) or tell the truth.

You don't think its ridiculous to take your kids out for 3 or 4 days a year but what would you think is ridiculous? Would that view change dependent on the age of the child, how well they are doing, whether they had been off school with illness, etc?

Yes it would. However based on my kids ages, how they're doing and the fact our school randomly shuts most terms for school fayres I don't think it is detrimental for them to miss a few days school a year to be honest. If they were struggling I'd rethink however my partner is in the forces so we do base holidays around them too.
But each to their own...for me personally I just wanted to know the rules as I've been advised Hampshire can be strict and I wasn't sure what the difference is between them being 'sick' and them having unauthorised as thought they were both unauthorised absences.

Genuine sickness, reported by the child's parents in the proper manner, would not be recorded as unauthorised. You don't get fined for your child being sick without the attendance service investigating. Going on holiday is a different matter. Lying about it is your business; some might see it as a poor message to send to children. The school always finds out and attendance codes can be changed.

The school will find out if you lie. If you were fined & refused to pay then you would be issued with court papers. The court may ask for a doctors note or proof that you took DC to a doctor, their reasoning being that if a child is off school poorly for a full week they would probably be poorly enough to have seen a doctor. Or the school could make a home visit. Or if you went abroad they would report that when they tried to call you there was an international dialling tone. Courts listen to (and believe) schools over parents. Do not lie. Just pay the fine asap before it doubles or goes to court.

Sorry I just read your update & realised it's not a full week.... I still wouldn't lie though.... if it did go to court they don't look kindly on this kind of thing & you would be found guilty (pretty much everyone is) It's not worth the risk, just pay the fine.

So you agree that its not ridiculous to 'dissuade' parents from taking children out of school on holiday in certain circumstances? Very difficult for local authorities to write rules covering those circumstances when it should or shouldn't be allowed and as there are some parents who care more about saving money than their children's education the decision shouldn't be with parents.

If we were fined we'd definitely pay it, no way would I want it to go to court etc. Just seems it differs in different areas as to when you get the fine.
I absolutely do think it should be the parents decision. Family time is hugely important in my opinion and not everyone can afford to go during the school holidays since the prices are so much higher. My partner also doesn't get the luxury of picking his annual leave dates, the forces do that for us! So it's one of those things. I have my personal view on education and I respect others will differ therefore I wouldn't judge those who take kids out for weeks nor those who wouldn't do it at all...everyone's reasoning is different.

Just be honest and if you are fined pay it. Kids will drop you in it when they talk about their hotel, their plane, their tent, the new words they learned for ice cream, the pool, the beach etc. Then it calls into question if you have lied about them being sick before when really you just fancied a weekend away. Remember all full time members of staff at school don't get to take their children out during term time.

Don't get your kids to lie, their faces when they realise they have dropped a clanger is awful usually followed by tears because they think they are in trouble with their parents and school.

Explain about the forces dictating the holidays and it may be recorded as something else in the register so that it isn't referred to the local authority to issue a fine.

Officially by staff we were always told it affects their education, unofficially we were told to have a wonderful time. The children that are most affected are actually the ones who don't make a full week on a regular basis, nothing to do with holidays just regular attendance at school

Hampshire policy is 10 sessions (half days) of unauthorised absence in any 10 week period. So it doesn't make any difference if you split it across 2 weeks etc.
Genuine sickness would be authorised absence not unauthorised.
Most schools also require you to ring in every day when children are off sick. Not to mention making your children complicit in any lies you tell. What do you think will happen when they go back to school and the teacher asks if they're better now?
If you're going to take them out for a holiday just inform the school and pay the fines. If you lie about them being sick and the school finds evidence to the contrary they will issue the fine anyway and you'll end up looking ridiculous 😏

@Aliceinwonder1

If your husband is in the forces they will authorise absence if he has mandated holidays (he'll need a note from work) we had quite a lot of raf kids and they just had to get permission

Unfortunately just because he's in the forces it doesn't matter, it's only around deployments that you get authorised absences.
I absolutely agree the teachers will know and have said that so the comments about looking stupid etc weren't really needed as it's not that I think the teachers are stupid and wouldn't know, however it's not the teachers or even the head at our school that minds (imagine it's different if it's weeks and weeks off school) as they will tell kids to have a wonderful time.
And in regards to us telling the kids to lie, we wouldn't. The few days would be before a school holiday so they'd absolutely go back and tell their teachers they've been to x and in reality the teachers would probably know we went earlier they just don't care as above.
It response to someone saying I should remember teachers can't take their kids out of school I think that's irrelevant to my situation as that's a given when you become a teacher to be honest, same as the forces have dictated mine and my partners life, I didn't necessarily choose it but he has so I'm along for the ride lol
I don't necessarily mind the fine. It's one of those annoying things, just wanted to understand at what point we would get the fine, is it 10 sessions or can they do it at any point if they wanted to as that's what people I've spoken to seem to be unsure of but I guess I go with the 10 sessions, thank you to everyone for the responses.

Has anyone had further than the fine? We have had a single justice procedure sent to us - no one anywhere has ever talked about this? There are plenty of threads and conversations on the fines but nothing past this?

Hi wanted some help so we took our ds whos 6 last June 2023 to turkey holiday as everyone does because honest truth is we can’t afford to go in school holidays this year we booked for may 2024not realising or even thinking it’s second time in 12months since his last holiday now the school said we could be fined 2500 I’m gonna see if I cancel the holiday but I think it’s too late has anyone been in this situation the new law for holidays by council was April 2023 any help would be appreciated I don’t mind paying the standard fine but I don’t want to be taken to court over it

Sent u PM Katie18w

There are new rules coming out in August 2024 which include a potential £2500 fine if third unauthorised absence occasion in 3 years but that hasn't come in yet.

So the new rules from aug 2024, am I right to assume the 3 occasions starts from then? It doesn't take past fines in the past 3 years into account?