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Original poster

Airbnb charging for damage we didn't cause

51 replies

kategrogen · 12/07/2023 10:01

We recently stayed in an Airbnb house in Italy. The house was very big, very old, lots of rooms and furniture, most of it well-used - it's clearly been a family house for a long time.

Shortly after we left, the host sent me a message accusing us of breaking a chest of drawers (she sent me a photo of a crack on the side of it) and said the whole thing would have to be replaced. I told her quite truthfully that we had not caused that damage.

She's taken this through the Airbnb damage process and they've decided we have to pay for it. They say that because we didn't report the damage as soon as we checked in, they 'cannot exclude' our responsibility. They keep going on about how we should have 'notified the host of the problem immediately' or 'canncelled our reservation' so Airbnb could have helped us find an alternative house. As if we would have done either of these over a small crack in the side of a piece of furniture we weren't using!

The policy seems absurd to me - are we really supposed to have gone around the house and made a list of every crack or small imperfection and send it to airbnb for our own protection? If so, they really need to make this clear at time of booking. It also seems contrary the general principle that if you're going to accuse someone of damage, you need to be able to prove it.

Does anyone have any advice on what i can do here? As it stands, they're going to charge my card several hundred pounds whether I agree or not.

OP posts:
mcdog · 17/07/2023 16:55

What an absolute farce. Cheeky fuckers!!!

I used to use AirBnB a lot, but it's so commercial now. And with that has come the scammers and chancers...

Itsallovernow23 · 17/07/2023 17:40

This happened to us in France. They wanted 900 euros for tar we brought into their kitchen. Erm there was no tar! I looked up how tar could get into wooden floors and found they are lined with tar and it is a common problem. Airbnb still wouldn't budge. We ended up paying half because we own an Airbnb and didn't want to lose our account. But we also pointed out that we always cover damage and we pay Airbnb huge fees for insurance in these matters.
Total scam. Best to photograph everywhere when you get there and leave I guess?

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 17/07/2023 22:36

they just keep saying 'the correct process has been followed' and the host has updated evidence (i.e. photos of the damage plus invoice for replacement cost) and as I haven't uploaded any evidence, they win basically.

So, going by their rules, if you'd recently pranged your car, you could upload pictures of the damage (and a garage quote to fix it), claim that the CEO of Air BnB had crashed into it, and that would count as 'proof' that he/she had manifestly done it and you could thus then send in the bailiffs?

What 'evidence' are they expecting you to upload? Leaving aside the patent absurdity of suggesting that you should have spent your first few hours of your holiday taking thousands of photos of every square inch of the property... even if you had somehow done that, you would either have a photo of a broken piece of furniture - which they would say backs up the post-stay photo that the host has given them (ergo you broke it); or you would have a photo of an undamaged piece of furniture, which they would say was proof that you broke it, as evidenced by the later 'updated' photo that their host provided from after you left.

It really is the equivalent of you demanding that Air BnB respond to your allegation "Have you now stopped submitting false accounts and committing tax evasion?" and insisting that you will only accept the answer of 'Yes' or 'No'.

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 17/07/2023 22:38

...that's going on the assumption that photo metadata are quite simple to falsify if you're determined to misrepresent something.

BruceAndNosh · 18/07/2023 13:28

They're asking to to prove a negative!

BruceAndNosh · 18/07/2023 13:29

Sorry.
They are asking YOU to prove a negative

holidaysagain · 18/07/2023 13:50

kategrogen · 12/07/2023 10:01

We recently stayed in an Airbnb house in Italy. The house was very big, very old, lots of rooms and furniture, most of it well-used - it's clearly been a family house for a long time.

Shortly after we left, the host sent me a message accusing us of breaking a chest of drawers (she sent me a photo of a crack on the side of it) and said the whole thing would have to be replaced. I told her quite truthfully that we had not caused that damage.

She's taken this through the Airbnb damage process and they've decided we have to pay for it. They say that because we didn't report the damage as soon as we checked in, they 'cannot exclude' our responsibility. They keep going on about how we should have 'notified the host of the problem immediately' or 'canncelled our reservation' so Airbnb could have helped us find an alternative house. As if we would have done either of these over a small crack in the side of a piece of furniture we weren't using!

The policy seems absurd to me - are we really supposed to have gone around the house and made a list of every crack or small imperfection and send it to airbnb for our own protection? If so, they really need to make this clear at time of booking. It also seems contrary the general principle that if you're going to accuse someone of damage, you need to be able to prove it.

Does anyone have any advice on what i can do here? As it stands, they're going to charge my card several hundred pounds whether I agree or not.

I have decided to not use Air B n B anymore after my DC was accused of damaging a shower tray in a UK Air B n B. My DH wrote many letters on my DC's behalf to the Air B n B arbitration person and we got nowhere. In the end we paid up on DC's behalf.
I have not had an issue with Air B n Bs in Italy before but this happening to my DC made us realise our vulnerability as renters of Air B n Bs. It is your word against the owner and Air B n B always take the owner's side.
In the past we have rented ones with antiques/artworks on display in Italy and I realised that you could be accused of theft, damage anything really, especially where it is the genuine owner moving out to rent it to you to get a bit more income. In strictly a holiday rental it is unlikely to have anything much of inherent value though.
Beware...is all I can recommend. You can be accused of anything.

holidaysagain · 18/07/2023 13:51

To clarify DC was an adult at the time but had not started paid employment and was not holidaying with us.

Original poster
kategrogen · 18/07/2023 17:36

BruceAndNosh · 18/07/2023 13:29

Sorry.
They are asking YOU to prove a negative

Yep, it's so frustrating.

But the annoying thing is although I can probably get out of the payment - by forcing them to get a court order before I will pay it, which they won't be able to get as they have no proof - they are free to just cancel my Airbnb account if they want. No laws about that, they can make their own policies. So no more home-from-home city breaks for me, hotels all the way.

OP posts:
FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 18/07/2023 17:42

Call me a cynic, but it strikes me that anybody with repairs needed to their property could deliberately set it up as an Air BnB, with the full intention of framing their guests for the cost of the repair - and it sounds like they would probably get away with it too.

Original poster
kategrogen · 27/07/2023 16:00

An update on this for anyone who, like I was, googling 'what happens if Airbnb charge you for damage you didn't cause'...

They've tried to take the payment and failed due to my cancelled card. They've emailed me with a message along the lines of, 'The host claimed for damage reimbursement, we asked you to pay but the payment failed so we'll pay the host back instead. We'll keep a note on this your file for next time.'

So it seems that now they're making out this payment is optional, although this isn't really the case as you have to cancel your whole card to prevent them taking it.

I still feel quite annoyed by the whole thing, partly because I'm obviously now on some kind of 'three strikes and you're out' type warning when I didn't do anything wrong, but more because it really feels like an abuse of card details to be taking payments entirely at their own discretion on the flimsiest of claims.

It also feels like they're trying to intimidate people into paying for the generous insurance policy they choose to offer hosts - if they want to reimburse people for any random pieces of broken furniture they take photos of, that's their business, but it feels very unfair that they can just use customer card details to fund it.

OP posts:
Maddy70 · 27/07/2023 16:16

I would say " prove it wasn't there before. Send me a dated photo and I can forward it to my solicitor " for his perusal

Also you may have free travel insurance with your bank. Worth letting them know

cherish123 · 27/07/2023 16:44

This is why I would never use Air b and b. I am also reluctant to rent cottages too where there is a deposit.
You don't go on holiday to check for damage, clean or the constant fear of being charged for things.

drspouse · 27/07/2023 16:52

We recently had an Airbnb host say we'd left an orange stain on a carpet but the photo was sent to us about 5 days after we left so for all we knew it was the next people.
We quibbled about the dates and they dropped it.
Can you see that piece of furniture in the listing photos?
(The DCs did have drinks on the sofa next to the carpet but nothing that colour so even if they'd spilled and not told us, it was not that colour when we left).

BlackAmericanoNoSugar · 27/07/2023 17:19

I would assume that "We'll keep a note on your file for next time" is a polite way of saying "if you book with us again we'll take this payment from your new credit card as soon as we have the details". I would consider your account defunct and use new details if you ever book again, eg book through your DH/DP's email and credit card.

parietal · 27/07/2023 17:27

Booking.com does lots of small rentals like Airbnb but is better these days.

Georgyporky · 27/07/2023 17:59

BlackAmericanoNoSugar · 27/07/2023 17:19

I would assume that "We'll keep a note on your file for next time" is a polite way of saying "if you book with us again we'll take this payment from your new credit card as soon as we have the details". I would consider your account defunct and use new details if you ever book again, eg book through your DH/DP's email and credit card.

Exactly.

Original poster
kategrogen · 27/07/2023 18:24

BlackAmericanoNoSugar · 27/07/2023 17:19

I would assume that "We'll keep a note on your file for next time" is a polite way of saying "if you book with us again we'll take this payment from your new credit card as soon as we have the details". I would consider your account defunct and use new details if you ever book again, eg book through your DH/DP's email and credit card.

Hmm yeah it's a point.

Exact wording is "For full transparency, we want you to know that we’ve made a note of this on your account. This is only for internal representatives to see" but I'm not sure I'd feel safe using the account again

OP posts:
MumblesParty · 27/07/2023 18:46

I’m glad they didn’t get your money OP, but shame you’ve been apparently blacklisted.

I find the whole thing baffling. We had a similar thing with Air BnB last summer. About 10 days after coming back from holiday in Spain, we were sent photos of a broken bin, a broken bathroom cabinet, and something else I can’t remember - and told we owed £100. We hadn’t broken these things, and I replied stating that fact. A few days later I got an email saying OK, charge dropped. No idea how they could have proved it was us, or why they subsequently decided it wasn’t! I can only assume they realised it was the people who stayed there after us, but we never had any further communication. I haven’t used AirBnB since so I don’t know if I’m blacklisted.

Whataretheodds · 27/07/2023 18:49

Ridiculous. If they want holiday-makers to validate an inventory on check-in then at the very least they need to provide one, with photos. But who wants to be doing that on holiday?

brokenlore · 27/07/2023 22:32

Are they allowed to take an unauthorised card payment though? Surely they can't just take payment? Wouldn't they have needed your security number on the bank of your card (my understanding is that's what counts as authorisation) I'm absolutely sure companies are not allowed to store the cvv number, as it's seen as a data breach? Maybe b & b's and hotels and things are different, but I'd be surprised. I know it's not relevant as you cancelled the card, but I'm shocked companies can keep these details on their data base, not least because of the huge security risk if they got hacked.

Original poster
kategrogen · 27/07/2023 23:43

brokenlore · 27/07/2023 22:32

Are they allowed to take an unauthorised card payment though? Surely they can't just take payment? Wouldn't they have needed your security number on the bank of your card (my understanding is that's what counts as authorisation) I'm absolutely sure companies are not allowed to store the cvv number, as it's seen as a data breach? Maybe b & b's and hotels and things are different, but I'd be surprised. I know it's not relevant as you cancelled the card, but I'm shocked companies can keep these details on their data base, not least because of the huge security risk if they got hacked.

Apparently so. I guess in the same way hotels can, when they take your card details on check in so they can charge you for damage after your stay.

They keep sharing links to various policies that set out guests consent to having their cards charged for damage they're responsible for, and I'm not actually bothered about that. My issue is the incredibly low threshold they have for determining responsibility. Just a sort of shoulder shrug and 'yeah maybe you did it? Who knows. Oh you say you didn't? Yeah, Pay anyway, thanks.'

OP posts:
AllAtSea4 · 13/11/2023 21:15

Hi kategrogen,
I found your post after searching for problems with Airbnb. This is exactly the same scenario I now find myself in after recently renting an apartment in Spain. Three weeks after departing, I was sent a claim for damages for £1,500 for alleged marks on walls and a scratch on a floor tile. Like you, I cannot prove that these marks weren’t caused before or after we left.
The Airbnb mediator sounded fair when they invited me to respond. They haven’t replied to any of my questions and told me yesterday that I am responsible because they can’t prove I am not!
Like you, I do not want to have to cancel my credit card or be banned from the website but I can see why people are left with no other option. I have asked for time dated photographic evidence but this has been ignored. Do you have any further advice about what to do?
Thank you.

Original poster
kategrogen · 16/11/2023 14:28

Hi @AllAtSea4

No real advice I'm afraid as I think my most recent post summarised how it concluded for me - I cancelled my card, they emailed me saying they'd try to take the payment but couldn't and that they would keep a record of this.

So I haven't had to pay anything and that seems to be the end of it, but no idea what would happen if I add another card to my account or try to make another airbnb booking. I don't think I'll risk it and I've gone right off Airbnb anyway as dealing with their agents was so infuriating.

OP posts:
Passepartoute · 16/11/2023 14:37

AllAtSea4 · 13/11/2023 21:15

Hi kategrogen,
I found your post after searching for problems with Airbnb. This is exactly the same scenario I now find myself in after recently renting an apartment in Spain. Three weeks after departing, I was sent a claim for damages for £1,500 for alleged marks on walls and a scratch on a floor tile. Like you, I cannot prove that these marks weren’t caused before or after we left.
The Airbnb mediator sounded fair when they invited me to respond. They haven’t replied to any of my questions and told me yesterday that I am responsible because they can’t prove I am not!
Like you, I do not want to have to cancel my credit card or be banned from the website but I can see why people are left with no other option. I have asked for time dated photographic evidence but this has been ignored. Do you have any further advice about what to do?
Thank you.

You need to cancel your card immediately and write to Airbnb saying that you didn't cause the damage and they have sent no evidence that you did. Tell them that unless they can produce such evidence you are expecting them to confirm that they have removed all records of this unfounded allegation against you.