The 'less than 10 years old' thing .. I'm genuinely confused

[MiniCooperLover]

I have done loads of reading about this, I swore to myself I wouldn't need to start a thread to ask advice, but I'm just very confused.

I keep seeing the quote 'make sure your passport is less than 10 years old'. Now I understand about the extra time over 10 years not being valid anymore, but are they saying that if your passport ever had extra time on it, the whole passport is no longer valid?

This is what Jet2's website says and helpfully (or not) to emphasise the point they use a passport that is exactly 10 years old.

"Your passport’s validity: EU countries now require UK passports to be less than ten years old and still be valid for at least three months at the time you're due to leave an EU country."

My passport doesn't expire until August 2028 but It was 10 years and 3 months old at the time of issue. Is that a problem? My head hurts.

The key thing is less than 10 years old on the day you are travelling

Say you were travelling August this year, that means your passport issued in 2018 would be five years old when you travel.

I think it should be less than 9 years and 9 months since issue or 9 years and 6 months for non-EU countries. But I might be more confused than the OP!

Sorry, I got it. Previous passports don’t matter. Just look at the date of your current passport.

It's doing my head in too. Dh has a day spare with the 3 month rule ontop of the 10 years and he says he's not going to renew it.

Basically ignore the expiry date. They'll only accept 10 years from date of issue. Then the usual 6/9 months validity required for where you are travelling to. So a passport issued April 2012 could have an expiry of July 2022 but as far as Travelling in Europe the expiry is April 2022

Your passport was ZERO years old on day of issue.

It's expiry date was the standard 10 years, plus a 3 month carry over for renewing early.

You can travel to the EU on that passport now as it does not expire til 2028.

When your passport gets to 9 years and 6 months from the date of issue some countries will not let you travel.

When your passport gets to 9 years and 9 months from date of issue EU countries will not let you travel - you need to have 3 months left, and your passport is only valid for a maximum of 10 years in their eyes.

The 10 year rule applies from the date of issue. (So date of expiry needs to be forgotten. Why not put a post it note in there to remind you)

It helps to think about it as two separate rules. One applies to the date you leave the UK, and the date of issue of your passport. The other applies to the date you come back, and the date of expiry of your passport..

Leaving - your passport is not valid if its date of issue is more than 10 years before the date you leave.

Returning - your passport is not valid if its date of expiry is less than three months after the date you return.

These could easily be combined into one rule IF all passports were issued for the same length of time, but they're not. So trying to make a single general rule that applies to all passports is doomed to failure (and is I think the source of a lot of the confusion).

Is that definitely correct? @MontyDonsBlueScarf

So, if your passport was issued on May 24 2012 and expires on August 24 2022. Then you can fly to Europe on May 23 2022?

That's my interpretation of the EU rules. It's also what the Independent says www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/renew-passport-eu-expiration-rules-travel-b2074609.html and www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/10-passport-rules-myths-busted-simon-calder-b2078442.html.

However even if you SHOULD be able to fly, some airlines are using their own interpretations and you MAY not be allowed to go.

In your example you haven't given enough information. You pass the first test as your passport is less than 10 years old on the day of travel (but I'd be inclined to book with a little more leeway as so many flights are being cancelled at the moment).

You need to know your return date to look at the second test. 3 months before your passport expires is May 24 2022, so unless you are going for just a day trip on 23 May then you won't have three months after your planned return date and you will fail the second test.

Whether you CAN fly to Europe depends on your airline's interpretation of the rules. No-one can stop you leaving the UK if you want to, but as far as I know, an airline can refuse to carry you if it believes your destination country won't let you in. You need to pass both tests to be allowed to enter an EU country. So if the airline has misinterpreted the rules you are probably in trouble.

Thank you! I understand better now. It's 3 months after the date the return to the UK, not leave the UK. A lot of places are saying 3 months from when you leave the UK.

If you are a non-EU national wishing to visit or travel within the EU, you will need a passport:

• valid for at least 3 months after the date you intend to leave the EU country you are visiting,
• which was issued within the previous 10 years,

But, whether a passport that is 10 years 2 months old is valid or not seems debatable.

I don't understand why the government can't hurry up and clarify this!

I don't think it makes sense to say that anything is 'valid' without also stating a purpose for which it's valid. For example a first class stamp is valid as postage on a small letter but it's not valid as the only postage on a large parcel. So it's unlikely that there will be a general statement on passport validity.

Statements like this

If you are a non-EU national wishing to visit or travel within the EU, you will need a passport:
valid for at least 3 months after the date you intend to leave the EU country you are visiting,

are unfortunate as they leave you to infer the purpose they had in mind. It's a reasonable assumption that as they're linking it to leaving the visited EU country (for which you don't technically need a passport) and returning to the UK (for which you do need a passport), the purpose is 'getting back in to the UK'. The UK will let you back in with a UK passport that is not yet past its expiry date regardless of when it was issued.

It would have been a lot less confusing if they'd said

If you are a non-EU national wishing to visit or travel within the EU, you will need a passport:
valid for at least 3 months after the date you intend to leave the EU country you are visiting, so that you can get back into the UK - although the UK would let you in on the last day of your passport, the visiting country wants the reassurance of a three month buffer so that you don't get stranded in their country if unforeseen problems arise and you need to stay a bit longer.
which was issued within the previous 10 years, so that you can get into the country you want to visit

I can see why they didn't, though. It's pretty much impossible to draft a single statement that is both simple and 100% accurate in all circumstances, when UK passports have variations in the time between issue and expiry and different countries have different rules for visitors. If it's if it's simple it won't be accurate, and accurate it won't be simple.

Thanks for your explanation!!

I checked the UK gov website and they say:

Passport validity

If you are planning to travel to an EU country (except Ireland), or Switzerland, Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Andorra, Monaco, San Marino or Vatican City, you must follow the Schengen area passport requirements.

Your passport must be:

issued less than 10 years before the date you enter the country (check the ‘date of issue’)
valid for at least 3 months after the day you plan to leave (check the ‘expiry date’)

It's confusing because it sounds like 3 months after you plan to leave the UK, but I think they mean 3 months after you plan to leave the country you are visiting.

I suspect there will be a lot of confusion this summer!

OP each time you get a new passport issued it starts the clock again. As a PP has said, it was 0 years old at the time of issue, it doesn't matter how old your previous passport was.

OP, what is the issue and expiry date of the passport you are referring to and what are your travel dates?

I thought any passports issued with added time on that make them overall longer than 10 years were no longer valid as that would not follow the "less than 10 years old" rule?!?

I don't understand why the government can't hurry up and clarify this!

They can't clarify other countries' rules. They requested clarification from the EU months, if not over a year. As always, anything the EU is involved in takes years to get an answer. The answer will be in a box somewhere shuttling its way back and forth between Brussels and Strasbourg.

The passport is valid. The extra time isn't.