Non refundable villas- I just don't get it! AIBU?

[YouCanCallMeBob]

We are lucky enough to have been able to book a Covid cancellation secure independent trip to Greece in August. We have moveable flights and a lovely fully refundable holiday house for our first week. We were hoping to splash out on a villa with a pool for our second week but almost everything on airbnb and other holiday rental sites has either no free cancellation or free cancellation until a few weeks before travel. I don't really want to book a villa that ticks none of our boxes (within budget, number of rooms, nice view, not miles and miles in land ) except free cancellation.

What I don't understand is why more holiday let owners don't seem to be offering ANY flexibility due to Covid. It's not as if travel insurance will cover anyone in the event of a travel ban.

Surely people would get more bookings if they were flexible. Who on earth would book a villa for £1500 plus with no protection at all?

Now, I will admit that I'm a bit holiday obsessed and like to do my research. I can find one or two properties that fit the bill but the vast majority that tick my boxes would result in a huge loss if there was a travel ban.

AIBU to think that owners are being ridiculous expecting people to book with zero flexibility in their booking conditions? I just can't see their logic. What am I missing here?

I suppose the villa owners can't really see what it's in for them to offer free cancellation! They've probably had a year of last minute cancellations (not anyone's fault obvs) and have had enough. I assume a lot of people are going to head for Greece at the last minute if they possibly can, so why would the villa owners gamble on you turning up if they can get those people?

Possibly because the travel/tourism industry has been totally decimated because of covid and they can’t actually afford to do that? Or because a holiday abroad is a privilege, not a right, so they don’t actually owe you anything?

If they can get bookings without offering a money back guarantee then why would they?

Country, I can see what you mean. Maybe they accept that they'll only get last minute booking. But with places like France and Spain bringing in last minute quarantine requirements last year, even the last minute crowd may be a bit more cautious than normal.

I suppose the bigger issue is why don't more offer the possibility to move dates? I should've made that point better in my OP.

SomeLovers, did I say that they owe me anything? I'd like to book with a small independent owner who'd be willing to let me move my travel date if there was a travel ban. One could argue that I am trying to support the travel industry.

hopping, I'm not sure that they are getting the booking though. I've been looking on the same sites since Feb and the same properties are still available.

I think country is right.

as in, they're banking on the last minute crowd.

@youcancallmebob I suppose moving dates has a similar effect to cancelling? As in, if you're booked in for the first week in August - which would be a popular slot for the Brits - and you had to move dates at the last minute, they probably wouldn't be able to fill it in time. I take your point about last minute changes last summer, I think people may be slightly more confident with last minute bookings because there is a lot more knowledge about this bloody virus now. Basically, the prime villas are holding their nerve. But it makes booking holidays a stress, which is why the tourism industry is... struggling.

Agreed, Country. I would only want the option to swap dates in the event of a travel ban (so potentially no-one else could book the property anyway, if it was a Greek initiated travel ban. If it was a UK travel ban then it's true that they could rebook to other nationalities).

My friend owns a villa (not in Greece) and she only rents it out under the strictest policy of cancellation, which ensures that she keeps 50% of any rental price. Why? Because that way she ensures that if someone has booked her villa they don't cancel at the last minute, get all their money back, and leave her with an empty villa and no income at all.

Believe it or not, it's really expensive to have a villa overseas and those precious six weeks in the summer, when villa owners can charge the top rate, keep them going through the cold months of winter, when almost no one wants to book. Add to that, a year of Covid cancellations, etc, and most villa owners are on their knees. They don't owe you the terms and conditions that you want. They want to be sure of some income this year and if you're not willing to take the risk, don't.

And yes - moving the dates to next year doesn't help them at all. It means YOU don't lose out, but they get nothing!

Hi Zafferana, I'm not sure that they get nothing if I move dates as I would (and always have ) pay in advance. I would have thought that this would have helped with cash flow.

most villa owners are on their knees . Oh come on, I know I'm privileged being able to go on a holiday abroad. But owning a villa is also a fairly privileged position, I think most would agree. I make a distinction between Greek islanders whose income is from tourism and wealthy foreign holiday home owners.

If I've made an assumption about your friend and put them in the wrong 'category' of property owner then the above doesn't apply, obviously.

BTW I would be prepared to risk losing 20% of the cost. I should probably have put that in my OP. I just think that fully non refundable and non transferrable with is not realistic (up to £2K is a lot to lose).

This is not about not feeling no compassion for those in the travel industry, but about compromise.

To Zafferna again, you say It means YOU don't lose out, but they get nothing! but surely the same is true in reverse for me. I would like to try to support a rental owner but don't see why I should make all the loss either!

I'm not sure that they get nothing if I move dates as I would (and always have) pay in advance.

That only helps them if you pay them directly - if you book via Airbnb it doesn't hand the money over to the owner until the booking commences. And yeah, my friend is fortunate, but that doesn't mean she can afford to have her villa sitting empty for months on end and just suck up the cost - if she has another year like last year they might not be able to afford to keep it. So she'd rather wait until Brits know whether they can go or not and until vaccination rates in Europe have improved to the point where countries can join the green list (hopefully end of June). She knows there is huge pent-up demand out there, but people are afraid to book this far out. She's happy to wait and get bookings that are much more likely to go ahead.

Zafferana, that makes sense about being happy to wait for the last minute bookings. Country said similar.

Some destinations seem to be better than others and booking.com better than airbnb. No way would I book somewhere without a flexible cancellation policy, including pre covid. Hotels are better for this than individual owners. Whilst it maybe expensive for them to own a holiday villa, it is also expensive for me to book it and things can happen. They are not doing me a favour but they are providing a service. Airbnb owners tend to be the worst for this and with the added fees and extra charges the risk and thebcosts being equivalent professional hotels/aparthotel, it is often not worth using. It is also the only booking platform I know where it is some HOSTS who tend to cancel you last minute leaving you struggling to find somewhere with no compensation. A hotel would at least pay to out you somewhere equivalent if they had to move you.

Willstart, I agree that Booking.com is generally better for free cancellation but I must say, Airbnb are (unexpectedly) better for the specific island we are going to. Plenty will let you cancel up to the day before but they just don’t tick my boxes (we really want to try to get a pool this time as it’s be such a novelty for us and don’t want an apartment this time either).
I totally agree about host cancellation! I try to book Airbnb super hosts/ ones with loads of reviews.

It’s a slightly blinkered thinking to believe that all these villas are rich people’s second homes and they are in a privileged position. For some people this is their ONLY source of income and it may well be they have invested inheritance or significant savings to get them.

What you are asking is for you to have all the benefit and them all the risk. I think there could be some flexibility (maybe 8 weeks before your stay) but expecting them to refund or shift your booking last minute and then have it sat empty because they can’t fill it in peak season offers them no benefit.

Your average pool costs £6-£7k per year to run. You can’t just take the cover off and it’s ready to go. When a pool has been winterised it can take several weeks to get it up and running again. It’s not just sat there waiting for you to rock up.

So it’s a great idea and we all wish it was possible but how does it make any kind of financial sense? Think about a theatre. Would you expect the same? Of course not. Empty seats cost ££££.

Zodle, I’ve addressed most of what you said upthread. I explained that I’d be prepared to lose 20% to cover expenses.

You say that I’m blinkered, but you’re still painting a picture of privilege in your examples. And isn’t it blinkered to expect all the expense to met by the holiday maker?

Finally, I don’t understand the relevance of your theatre analogy. It’s just not true: we spent a lot of money on concert tickets at the 02. It was cancelled and we got a refund. I can’t imagine west end shows are keeping everyone’s cash, for instance.

Air bnb are individual owners and they can dictate whatever rules they want with regards to renting out their own properties. They have lost a lot of revenue over the last year or so . If you booked with an atol protected supplier you will find more flexibility with booking terms and conditions.

20% wouldn’t cover someone’s mortgage and maintenance costs though. Think about it. If your property is rented out at a £1,000 a week and you had £500 a week running costs (inc mortgage) then would you honestly want the risk of only getting £200 for it and due to a last minute cancellation not being able to fill it again? What if they want to sell the villa as they can no longer afford it but due to eight weeks of summer bookings decide to hold off? They then have everyone cancel on them, are significantly out of pocket and miss the peak window for selling villa properties (the spring). I think it would be perfectly reasonable for them to have a cancellation policy that allows them to cover their costs but this would be more like 50-75% of the weekly rental fee not the 20% you are talking about.

There will be different rules for every country. So people from the Netherlands might be able to travel but not the U.K. A lot of villa owners are having domestic travellers stay at their properties instead - look at Cornwall for example - rammed all summer with Brits. The same thing is happening in other countries. So the country may essentially be open to tourism but only to a a set list of countries.

There’s also a reason most travel insurance companies won’t insure against Covid - because it’s so uncertain and there’s every chance you won’t be able to go. The U.K. government have been asked to discourage international travel this summer. So all the advice and guidance is really saying don’t go abroad this summer but you want the villa owner to be out of pocket to give you a chance at going away?

As for the theatre analogy, there are always empty seats as people just can’t go. Countries will be open to a certain extent this summer, as will theatres. The theatre isn’t going to close or let you rebook if you are coming from India. The show goes ahead regardless of whether or not you are there and you lose your money. You seem to be thinking along the lines of total travel bans with borders closed but not acknowledging that many countries will be open even if partially.

Sorry, but I think it’s a risk you take personally in booking.