New GWR trains have no space for buggies

[disneyatemydaughter]

I was travelling from Stroud to Cheltenham today with my 13 month old. When the train pulled in, I raced with my buggy to the disabled carriage, only to be told that disabled is 'in first class' and 'isn't for you'.

After politely explaining that my baby would scream and/or slide down to walk about while the train was moving if he was not clipped in, a kind member of staff - Nick - allowed me to sit there and offered me free tea whilst chatting about his own toddler.

On the way home, the staff were just as lovely. They let me sit there with the buggy (thankfully as my son has just gone to sleep) and pressed a free coffee on me.

But the lovely staff were all breaking the rules. GWR rent these trains from Hitachi; the lack of buggy/disabled space in Standard class means they can make a bit of extra cash. But parents are forced to fold buggies or stand in the vestibule.

It's put me off going to London to see family over the holidays.

That’s terrible if there isn’t room for pushchairs. It’s really difficult travelling by public transport with babies and young children, and more needs to be done to accommodate them.

I have PND and a young baby and a toddler, and whilst I can drive, I can’t drive my DH’s car, but we can’t afford to replace it. I am constantly told by Doctors and Health Visitors, friends and family, to ‘get out and about,’ visit ‘x’ person, go shopping etc, but it’s very difficult and sometimes impossible ‘thanks’ to public transport. This results in feeling ‘trapped’ and helpless, and makes my PND far worse.

I mention it, as so many parents are suffering from PND, and I know that many of these will be forced to struggle/have their condition worsen like me, because they can’t easily get around. Unfortunately, many disabled people also suffer with depression too, often as a result or partial result of not being able to travel easily. Travel and accessibility are therefore huge factors in people’s mental health and independence, and so much more needs to be done to help us all.

It makes me want to scream when I see those fancy expensive things that don't even fold unless you take the seat off as 'perfect for urban living'. No. They're not

Amen to that missis.

Please don't use the disabled space

What are you on about? The disabled spaced can be used by anyone if not needed by a disabled person - of course buggy users should use them.

Or - are you suggesting that on a crowded train, no people standing should stamd in an empty wheelchair space? Is that what you're saying? They should leave an empty bit of floor in case a wheelchair user gets on?

No, you're not saying that are you - as it would be patently absurd - as is telling parents with buggies not to use it.

The shameful incident with the woman with the notability scooter happened because of a shockingly entitled buggy owner denanding she moved out of the space and a equally shockingly ill-informed staff member demanding she comply and then calling the police on her when she didn't.

I hope she sues.

But - this is nothing to do with people respectfully using an empty space.

*motability

I’m disabled. I have arthritis in my neck which causes limited use of my left arm.
I also have a 13 month old.

I cant use a sling due to my condition, also holding him for a long period of time would be agony.

Where do I sit?

FMLFMLFMLFML DP is chronically disabled and a daily user of trains. We have two DC and he has taken them on trains thousands of times over the years. He has never had a problem and I am certain that you, like him, with a bit of common sense, can work out where you should sit.

As I said, this is managed without issues on some of the newer tubes in London. I struggle to imagine that a GWR train from Stroud to Cheltenham would be busier.

Priority space for wheelchair. Priority space for pushchair. Both have flappy seats, so that if a wheelchair user or a parent does not need them then other passengers can avail themselves of the seats.

Why on earth GWR did not consider this solution when commissioning new rolling stock is beyond me.

Disabled people should rightly be given priority and the best possible solution be found to make their journeys a little bit easier.

However, in a modern fair society, that doesn’t mean that parents of small babies should be given no provision whatsoever.

But as it is mostly just mums with their noisy babies and their unreasonable prams they can suck it up!

I'm a bit surprised everyone is getting so aerated about putting a pram in a wheelchair space. Surely that's all right to do as long as you stay with it and move it immediately if someone with a wheelchair gets on and needs the space?

We travel by train a lot and my DS is a good traveller in that he's easy to entertain. But between 1 and 2 can be difficult as, in my experience, he just wanted to walk around. Now for us, that's fine - I would just walk him up and down the train or find other ways to entertain him. But on longer journeys when he needed to nap, it would have been really difficult if I hadn't been able to put him in the buggy.

Now he's nearly three, I just pay for a seat for him with a Family and Friends Railcard so it doesn't actually cost any more.

Also, to all these people saying to fold the buggy - no problem, but where do I put it when it's folded?! The luggage racks seem to be designed so that it's actually quite difficult to get most pushchairs in if there is any other luggage, which is always the case on long-distance trains (and we've had an iCandy Raspberry, Armadillo Flip and are now onto a kick-and-collapse Maclaren so we're hardly talking Bugaboo Donkey here).

I agree that pram designers have a lot to answer for but I have found train companies very variable. Virgin (now LNER) are the best by far for pushchair accessibility and there is a designated space in most vestibules. But most other train companies we've used in recent years have no designated buggy space so if you don't travel regularly, it can be a bit stressful when you first get on. Staff are usually really helpful though.

Cross country and West Midlands have a fold down seat either side in the vestibule so you can sit with the pram still up.
I know this doesn't help you OP but surely all trains could offer this?
They also IME seem to always have a disabled carriage- often filled with bikes 😐😐😐

The lack of space for luggage and folded down buggies is another thing that makes me want to scream. I went on a train from Clapham Junction to Weymouth a few years ago. A route that stops at at least 4 holiday destinations and an airport and 3 ports (including cruise routes). The wheelchair space was basically packed to the roof with luggage because there simply was no other place provided for suitcases etc. We managed to balance our luggage and folded down buggy in the pile. However had someone in a wheelchair wanted to board everyone would of simply had no where to move their stuff.
While we were on that holiday we went on the Swanage Steam train. The Guard insisted all prams and buggies had to go in the guards van. This was baby/toddler holiday season so all us parents lined up the pushchairs neatly in the van - one pram included a sleeping baby!! It was brilliant!

I think it's completely reasonable to expect a couple of buggy spaces - many women with small children are reliant on public transport, children can be asleep (and waking a tired baby or toddler is generally going to be miserable for the whole carriage) with small babies it can be tricky and not everyone can just take a sling. Easy if it's a shorter trip with 1 DC but what about if it's a long trip with 3 DCs and luggage, or a parent who is not physically able to wear a sling?

Also why can't the space be shared? Of course
with wheelchair priority. In 6 years and 3 DCs, with no car, I've literally had this happen once, most of the time it's buggies, seems crazy to have empty space in the meantime.

As for driving, I don't drive. And surely most of us should avoid it when possible? (Or is not troubling the big rail companies with our buggies more important than the climate?) And good for you if you have space and money for multiple buggies in order to use the best one for your train journey.

Surely we can agree that public transport should cater for families, without disregarding the rights and struggles of wheelchair users??

This is about a rail company saving money at the expense of space. If the trains are too crowded, they could put on more trains.

Does anyone know how much profit GWR makes? They should provide good services for everyone if they are doing to charge so much for tickets!

GWR made £45,230,000 after tax in 2016. Could afford us some buggy space in Standard, just possibly, and disabled space in First Class?

www.tssa.org.uk/en/Your-union/Your-company/company-pages/great-western-railway/index.cfm/gwr-2017-pay-talks

Surely we can agree that public transport should cater for families, without disregarding the rights and struggles of wheelchair users??

YANBU.

There should be a space for buggies, and mothers struggling with their children should be thought of in designing these things. I find the attitude of some posters above pretty disguist "I never struggled so why should your journey be easier?" It's like saying "There was no pain relief when I was giving birth in 14th century village and every other girl died, why should you be in a nice clean hospital and be offered drugs? You're not even ill, just pregnant!!"

DP is chronically disabled and a daily user of trains. We have two DC and he has taken them on trains thousands of times over the years. He has never had a problem and I am certain that you, like him, with a bit of common sense, can work out where you should sit

My nan sometimes uses a wheelchair but could fold it and use a regular seat.
Doesn’t mean every wheelchair user could do that.

Just because your DP can find a solution that suits him, doesn’t mean others with chronic conditions could.

I think they should have an accessible carriage with all fold down seats/wheelchair spaces and an extra toilet in that carriage.

there’s a need for the space. Even if they charged an extra £1 for a pram or bike, I wouldn’t begrudge paying it knowing I’d have a comfortable journey with no tutting. It would pay for itself after a few journeys.

I don't feel able to take mine on any public transport. I thought I would get a foldable buggy and some sort of carrier but the busses don't have luggage space. The trains are the old fashioned kind with a step to get on.

Looks like it will be either driving or taxi.

@SnuggyBuggy buses do still have space - worst case if you have an older child you take out and fold, or for smaller dcs people are more likely to make space. It's fairly rare that it's full, but if so you can wait. For the train, you can get on the step with a buggy, it just take a bit of practice.
As a non driver, car is not an option for me, and taxis as well as being expensive rarely have car seats so are far less safe, there are ways!

If you are nervous, a babyzen yoyo or similar is a godsend, really nimble and light to lug around and easy to fold in a worst case scenario (though I literally have never had to, except on long journeys like to Devon).

Our busses have an additional seat where the luggage rack used to be and there isn't that space under the stairs for some reason. We learned it the hard way when we decided to get the bus back from the airport with our suitcases.

There is the wheelchair area but there are quite a lot of wheelchair users getting the bus which is good but I don't fancy having to get off with DD in the middle of a journey, the busses aren't very regular.

I also don't want to be that person on AIBU asking if I was BU to refuse to move for a wheelchair

To be fair with the train I was still recovering from my episiotomy and had to leave it to my DH to get the pram on. I might give it another go. They're hopefully phasing out the older trains in the next couple of years.

I'm lucky I can walk to most things anyway.

OP are there no fold down seats and no room for a small narrow pushchair?

it's weird, Tubes get more flexible and trains seem to be less flexible!