UK passports and no exit border checks: child abduction all too easy?

[SouthLondonDaddy]

Being recently questioned at Gatwick because our daughter looked nothing like her passport photo, taken when she was just a few weeks old (www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_advice_tips/3019919-Child-unrecognisable-from-passport-photo?watched=1 ) got me thinking that British passports and the lack of border checks when leaving the UK potentially make child abduction all too easy, especially compared to what happens in many other countries.

A 5-year passport for infants is too long a period; in many other countries it’s 2 or 3. I joked with my wife that I could basically snatch any child the same age as our daughter and travel abroad with her on our daughter’s passport.

One parent can obtain a passport without the other parent’s knowledge or consent; this is just wrong – it makes it all too easy for one parent to take a child abroad without the other parent’s consent. Again, many other countries require the consent of both parents. Clearly this doesn’t solve the issue of what happens when two parents initially agree to the passport, then become estranged and one tries to take a child abroad without the other parent’s consent.

There are no passport controls when leaving the country. This is very different from many other countries (eg all the Schengen area, ie most of the EU), where immigration officers check passports both when entering and leaving the country. If I tried to take a child from London to Paris, it would be up to the airline to stop me. If I tried to take a child from Paris to London, I’d have to go through French immigration control.

British passports do not report the names of the parents. Simply having the same surname does not prove anything, just like not having it doesn’t mean much (think of all the mothers who don’t change their surname). We always carry a copy of our daughter’s birth certificate, but, to be fair, that piece of paper with no pictures is all too easy to fake! Why don’t British passports report the names of the parents? This is what happens in many other countries. Printing two more lines on a passport, like many other countries do, is a very easy and inexpensive solution. And of course faking a passport is much harder than faking a birth certificate. There was a petition to do this ( petition.parliament.uk/archived/petitions/55636 ) but it failed.

Thoughts?

Most parental/familial abductions happen when children are not brought back after a weekend at dad's for example. By the time the child isn't returned s/he has been taken to a non Hague signatory country.
Far more common on abductees being brought into the UK.

When my wife took DD abroad (with my knowledge, of course!) Easyjet staff checked both their passports, period. DD was very little and sleeping. They have different surnames. Easyjet had no way whatsoever of knowing that my wife was, in fact, the mother

She wouldn't have to be the mother. There are no laws about who can take children on planes. Why should they check?

Are you supposed to take a child's birth certificate? I've heard this said but my mum and ds have different surnames from ds and have taken him though passport control umpteen times.
And I thought the things about photos was they can check pupil distance (or something) because that doesn't change.

In most cases applicants aren't wanting a passport for nefarious purposes so of course most cases are straightforward. That doesn't mean some are not refused (especially for minors when documentation isn't satisfactory or the other parent blocks it)

It's not a rule Noni but it's advisable, especially if only one parent is travelling.

Whilst I accept that in potential child abduction cases, it could be a concern that one parent can obtain a passport without the others knowledge, you have to think of the flip side of that.
My ex has little to no contact with his children, he shows no interest and his only aim seems to be to make our lives as difficult as possible. If DH and I decided to take the children abroad and had to gain their dad's consent, we would never be able to go. He wouldn't sign a passport form (partly out of spite and partly because that would mean tracking him down to get him to sign). I think the law is fine as it is in that regard, but I do think border checks should be more thorough.
When we do decide to go abroad, we will go armed with their birth certificates as well as our marriage certificate (my name now is different to my name on their BCs).

Although children's passports last 5 years, you are supposed to change the photo if it doesn't look like the child any longer (renewal approx £50)
I just did this recently for my 2yo as he looked nothing like his 8mo photo.
The only reason why I even thought to do it was because a few years ago I was stopped at passport control returning to the UK from Amsterdam as my 5yo didn't look like her passport photo any longer. After being questioned regarding her fathers whereabouts (at home in UK) & being told the rules I was allowed through. I changed it as soon as I got back.
Ironically, I just recently forgot to renew her passport which ran out while we were away, only discovering the day before flying out. We took the punt that we'd be able to get ETD for flight back & barely anybody in the UK airport flying out even glanced at our passports let alone questioned the validity.
As long as you have a boarding pass, you can get surprisingly far in an airport before you have to show a passport which is worrying in itself.

Are people seriously suggesting that every child at an airport is checked up on to see if they are being abducted? What kind of checks are you suggesting?

Yes, this is precisely what I am suggesting, and is precisely what happens in most European countries.
Again, the process is very simple. Border officials (not only airline staff) control the documents of those leaving the country. The document of a minor reports the names (and, ideally, date and place of birth), of those with parental responsibility. If the adult travelling with a minor does not have parental responsibility, then some kind of authorisation is needed. Typically not a piece of paper anyone could fake, but some kind of documented obtained through the police/home office etc. Some examples:

Spain: the Police needs to issue a document, eg to verify that parents are authorising little Jose to travel with his grandma, auntie or whatever
www.guardiacivil.es/en/servicios/permiso_salida_menores_extranjero/index.html The Spanish also have a specific booklet (the family book) which reports the details of the entire family, and therefore confirms who has parental responsibility.

Italy: same concept, except there is no family book. Italians in the UK go through the Consulate, Italians in Italy go to the local police station www.conslondra.esteri.it/consolato_londra/en/i_servizi/per_i_cittadini/affidamento-di-minori-in-caso-di

France: www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F1359 possibly the weakest example of the 3: introduced only recently, plus it’s not clear to me if this document needs to be validated by the French police or not

How about the UK? GOV’s official website talks about getting a consent letter from those with parental responsibility www.gov.uk/permission-take-child-abroad , but there is no mention of how to verify this. A simple letter with a signature is certainly much easier to fake than an official document issued by a consulate or police force.

Not to mention that there is no border official checking for this when leaving the UK; like I said, when my wife travelled alone with DD (different surnames), no one had any way of knowing she was, in fact, the mother.

Surely all of this makes it much easier to abduct a British child from the UK, than a Spanish from Spain or Italian from Italy?

n most cases applicants aren't wanting a passport for nefarious purposes so of course most cases are straightforward. That doesn't mean some are not refused (especially for minors when documentation isn't satisfactory or the other parent blocks it)

But they aren't refused just because only one parent applies, so what was your actual point?

She wouldn't have to be the mother. There are no laws about who can take children on planes.
Are you serious?
Taking a child abroad without the consent of all those exercising parental responsibility is a serious crime.
www.gov.uk/permission-take-child-abroad
It's so self-evident I shouldn't even be wasting my time replying...

Yeah, you've got quite a glaring omission in your point, OP. There are no border checks in mainland Europe. You can drive out of Spain with a Spanish child or out of Italy with an Italian child, so who needs your booklets and bits of paper?

She wouldn't have to be the mother. There are no laws about who can take children on planes.Are you serious?Taking a child abroad without the consent of all those exercising parental responsibility is a serious crime

Yes I'm serious. Did I say "without consent"? You're being very silly.

Every time we travel now I have to fill in APD information (advance passenger directive), for the airline. And our passports are checked at least once, when both leaving and entering the UK (and any other nation). When I used to travel sometimes alone with our DS when he was a baby and we lived overseas I was ALWAYS asked where his dad was, when he was joining us, where we lived, etc. I could see that the agent questioning me was watching my body language for any signs of nervousness or shiftiness. So, tbh, I'm not sure what you're talking about!

@juneau, the point is that passports are not checked by Border Agency (or whatever it is called now) officials when leaving the country, only by the airline staff, who don't always check parental responsibility (especially for British children, as per my other post).

Asking a child is not sufficient. You cannot ask a 6-month old.

A toddler could be tricked into playing a game and saying that the auntie is the mother, or whatever.

I hope what I'm talking about is now clearer...

When was the last time you left the uk? Everything has a border check point these days...

Is it really possible for 1 parent to get a passport for DC in the UK?

@CoteDAzur, yes, it is.
The official documentation is: www.gov.uk/government/publications/applying-for-a-passport
Look at page 9 (11 of the PDF).
Like I said, I am married to DD's mother and both our names are on her birth certificate. When we applied for her British passport, only I signed. Of course my wife knew and approved, but the Home Office had no way of knowing!

Border officials (not only airline staff) control the documents of those leaving the country

This is what you said. you forgot to add "by air" onto that sentence.

I really don't get the outrage at one parent being able to obtain a passport!
I think it would be far more outrageous if you needed both parents to get one.

They don't check anything at borders to schengen countries, this being exactly the point of schengen. We regularly drive from Germany to France and there are no checks at all.

You seem to be spending a lot of energy getting worked up about something which is really unlikely to ever affect you whereas the people it could affect (e.g. those of us with absent co parents potentially with hostile intent) are telling you that we're happy with the way it currently works and/or would be happier with a little less red tape in fact.

There are sporadic border checks in the Schengen area, plus anyone found in France, say, with an Italian child who is not their child (even grandparents) and without the relevant police certificate will be arrested. It happened to a family I know where the uncle had mislaid the certificate when taking DN on holiday with his kids (not in France but another Schengen country).

I too am astonished at how backward the British passport is in terms of not having parents' names on it. My DD only ever travels on her Italian passport or ID card as both our names are on there, it saves a huge amount of hassle and suspicious questioning, as we obviously have different surnames (in Italy women keep their maiden names, so one parent with a different surname is the norm).

I recently assisted a friend by verifying the passport application for her granddaughter.

The child lives with the grandmother (as does the father, sometimes) the application was made by the father, including the mother's name and no other details as there is no contact.

My eldest children gave travelled abroad with my BIL for the last 3 summers, I provide a letter of permission. He shares a surname with the DC but has never been asked if they are his.

I have travelled many times with my DC without their father, never had a letter and never been questioned.

In fact, last week BIL and I travelled together with 5DC (his 2 and my 3) from Spain to Morocco and weren't questioned. I had not asked my husband's permission to travel to Morocco, no reason why I should.

If your child has been abducted I assume you'd notice in which case youd notify the police who put a call out to border control.

And what if the abduction takes place while the other parent is at work? I don't know about you, but I don't have a 24/7 webcam feed on DD!

Let's say I wanted to leave my wife and take DD abroad (or viceversa, that she wanted to do this). I could pick up DD from nursery saying there's some kind of family emergency, or take a day off work to be with DD, or whatever.

Or a parent could take a child abroad during a divorce...

They are possibly extreme case, but they are easier in the UK than in other EU countries.

Yes but also many countries within schengen require residents to carry ID at all times which is why you can be spot checked. The point of schengen is to hugely reduce the hassle of crossing borders.

Plus people take kids abroad all the time who are not necessarily their parents, an aunt or grandparent or family friend or child's friend's parent could all have valid reasons to travel with a child who is not their own.

When was the last time you left the uk? Everything has a border check point these days...

@Ttbb, I took two international flights out of the UK in August, the last one less than two weeks ago, and no, no border checks. In fact, UK airports are not even equipped for border checks the way European airports are: there is no post-passport check area, etc.

You think parents going through a traumatic separation haven't thought of those situations?