Car seats RANT

[madamez]

THere are many and varied reasons for despising the current Government, but the new car seat law sure is one of them. Just what are you supposed to do if you're car-free but every now and again want to visit friends in the country? For those of you who don't have this problem, let me explain. Baby car seats fit nicely on top of buggies and also tend to be portable in themselves. For older kids, you can buy booster seats that aren't very big and can be carried in a bag. But for a child between the ags of 11month and (I have just found out) about 6 there is no kind of car seat that isn't a) expensive and b) far too bulky and heavy to carry on a train or bus along with child, buggy, luggage, etc.

So this new law that's allegedly going to 'protect' kids ie recude the risk by some pretty minor percentage is actually just another way of causing massive inconvenience to people who don't want to fit into the 'normal' demographic.

you can use booster seats from about age 3 (or even 2 if your child is big).

But I think the law should allow for cars which have adjustable seat belts, like ours does. I do put dd in a booster, but she would be just as well strapped in without imo.

also eu directive or no, the government didn't have to implement it. Spain hasn't.

on another note though I cajme on here to ask Bozza's question about booster seats. off to start it now.

I fell out with my MIL and SIL big time when i confronted them about taking dd (then a baby) out in the car sitting on SIL's lap. MIL had bought seats for SILs children (a few yesr older than dd) to use in her car but when I asked her to use one of those for dd I was told that they had been thrown out. After the dust settled MIL bought a new seat for dd to use but I was really angry that she had felt it was ok to put my child at risk.

Bozza - we gfound that the Volvo isofix fittings haven't been tested with the standard isofix iBritax seats, so they will only actually recommend their own Isofix - which is really big and cumbersome, with some strange box at front of seat.

also just remebered: for occasional use I'd recommend the Argos car seat - it's quite light and only about 20 quid.

imagine legislating to protect children - whatever next

I find myself in the same position as Madamez - neither my partner or I can drive, so can't even borrow a car / car share. We are totally dependent on public transport and occasional lifts.

Yes it is important that children are protected, and I have a policy of never taking my baby in a car without a car seat. I don't think that the public health inpact of car seats is miniscule, by the way - and I do support the law.

But it does make life really tricky if you are planning to take your child anywhere where they might have to get in eg a taxi, or another car. Taking a car seat with you every time you leave the house? Not realistic. It's not as though those with babies don't have enough paraphenalia already - and lots of buses already demand that you fold up your buggy to get on board.

At least some local authorities have interpreted the law to mean that you can't put your baby in a pram or buggy in the back of a black cab - instead you have to carry the baby on your lap. Which is several orders of magnitude more dangerous than keeping them strapped into a pushchair.

The point is that the law seems to be predicated on the idea that all parents have a single car that they can fit a car seat into. For those of us who live without a car, it really is a problem.

And frankly one heavily burdened trip through a major station with luggage trolleys, lifts and elevators is simply not the same thing at all. No matter how sanctimoniously undertaken.

I for one am dreading the coming years of my son not fitting into a baby car seat or booster seat...

Rant over.

Firepile - there is a legal exception for "short, unexpected journeys", such as taking a taxi because you were too tired to get the bus. It has yet to be tested in court but usually with these things the exceptions turn out to be rather elastic.

Well hula we are using the non-isofix car seats that we already had. But DS's booster base is really a bit big for the curved bit of the seat which is annoying and means he struggles to fasten it. And we certainly couldn't fit a third car seat in the middle. Not much difference to my Fiesta which is a much smaller car but has a flat bench like seat in the back.

But I was really just using that as an example. There are a lot of cars that are like that. And I would suggest that a lot of the time in a lot of cars the most regular back seat passengers are children.

Indeed there is SenoraP. But my point about the taxis was that the law is being perversely interpreted to make my child less safe than he would be in his buggy... This has happened to me twice - the first time I refused to get into the taxi, the second, I would have missed the train if I hadn't got in, and I was petrified the whole time.

Actually, my objection to ds travelling in a car without a carseat pre-dates the legislation, so I expect that I would be ranting about the inconvenience even without the law. (And let's face it, I do like a good rant).

What we do need, though, is better thinking from planners. How about it being an essential piece of kit for taxi/ prvate hire cars to carry an infant and child car seat?

I'm also v interested in a portable Stage 1 car seat, if anyone has any recommendations - I'd be a bit concerned that the American one already trailed may not meet EU safety standards.

fwiw I don't think that having a child strapped into a pushchair is safer than having them on your lap, because pushchair straps are not designed to withstand any kind of impact. taxis should be obliged to carry boosters though - that's a good idea.

Not sure you're right there, SP - even in a slight impact, babies on laps are at very high risk from being crushed by adults - they would not be in a puchchair or car seat.

Of course in a bigger crash, the pram might not help much.

what are those of us who can't drive supposed to do i would love my child to be a carseat and the travel system one when she was tiny, but short of buying one and then carrying it around when you get out of the taxi what are you supposed to do

But what would you have done before the law was passed? Are you only worried about transporting your child in a car seat so that you don't break the law, or because your child will be much safer in one. I can see your point that it is very difficult but IMO it is so important. I don't know what the answer is having said that I just know the risks I won't take.

I agree its a problem and IMO taxis should HAVE to have a car seat avaliable on a boot...

a britax evolva 1-2-3 would do!

Look, before there was this tiresome law, kids took occasional car trips without car seats and didn't all die horribly. Before seatbelts were compulsory, it was perfectly possible to travel around in a car without one and not die horribly once a week. And I mistrust a law that insists on people buying something expensive that people managed perfectly well without in the past, just as I mistrust any kind of marketing that depends on terrorizing the target audience.

madamez - hire a car seat from a car hire firm & get your frinds to put it in their car for your family visit.

car seats are important - if you don't agree don't travel by car.

Gosh no they didn't ALL die horribly but some did. Jeez. I think you are actually quite mad so I am off.

Oh please what kind of stupid argument is that.

So because all children didn't die it shouldn't have been made law.

What about the children that did die?

Are a few childresn lives not worth saving?

Does there have to be at least say 100 deths before you would be happy with the law?

excuse my spelling.

You (madamez) obviously dont look after a 2 year old who was in a 70mph+ crash (impact speed) who had NO injuries at all (just bruisng over shoulders from car seat straps)

had he have not been in his car seat he would now more than likely be dead...and not the lovely 4 year old that he now is

he was in a maxi cosi priori car seat that was correctly fitted, and was strapped in tightly!

if u didn't care for your childrens safety before then a change in LAW won't change your mind. there is an exception for journeys where a car seat is unavailable (for 3 and over i think it is). IME people who drive round country lanes do so FASTER than they would on a normal residential road so therefore the risk of accident is greater on those roads.

Solutions to your rant:
firstly learn to drive/get a car
get a pushchair with a massive luggage space underneath
don't get in anyones car when u go to the country
or compromise your childrens safety

7696 children between the ages of 0-11 were killed or injured in 2004 as car passengers.

Going without a carseat or using a adult belt at 30mph or lower can kill, not only the child but other restrained passengers as well.

Nothing is worth that risk to your child.

I am so angry words cannot convey what I think about you.

More cars on the road = more accidents, even with other factors taken into account.

You are deluding yourself to think that this is a ploy.

I know those that have attended these accidents - they don't let their children travel without seats.

I agree that lugging them about is a pain
When we were carless I usually booked a minicab with a car seat. Newer black cabs have a toddler booster seat thing built in I believe.
And for our regular train trip to my parents I bought a seat for their car

Well I'm definitely not a fan of this law. If the objective was road safety then other measures could have come first. Of course since the carseat manufacturers lobbied the EU so heavily it has come in as implementation of yet another EU directive rather than being the result of debate within the UK.

But, given the age of your children, what would you have done prior to the change? Personally I view fining parents giving a group of 11 year olds a lift without checking their heights ridiculous, but I can't imagine not putting a 2yo in a car seat?