Help please - emigrating to Australia

[sunnydelight]

I'm sorry if this has been done to death, but it looks like DH may be offered a job in Sydney in the next few months and I would love any advice/experience you can offer about moving to Sydney. DH and I met there 16 years ago and we lived there for a year before our immigration status got the better of us. We always vowed to go back but it never happened; we now have three children, 12, 7 and 3 so I accept I will not be living overlooking the harbour bridge and eating out five nights a week, but I really want to go. My biggest issue is schooing - DS1 is dyslexic. The one advantage I can see is that despite the fact that he is in his second year of secondary here I think he would be starting secondary there? (He's an August birthday so was always the youngest in the class and I always wanted to hold him back a year but couldn't). I would also really appreciate any input about areas to live and house prices. We see it as a way to afford a better house for less money - we currently have a horrible south-east England mortgage. I would be really grateful if anyone has time to respond.

Forgot to add thanks for the reassurance about the spiders I'm seriously considering some hypnotherapy before I go!

Sunny, Just came back from getting rid of a very large spider out of our house!!! I live in DERBYSHIRE!!! Gave me the creeps as I hadn't expected spiders here!

Gordon is nice and is on the train line. There are some nice restraunts around there, nice parks..its a very direct drive to the city (basically along the Pacific Highway, accross the bridge and into town) but the Pacific Highway can be terrible in peak hour. Still, your DH could catch the train, I think it would take about 30 mins in to Town Hall Station, then its a walk of 15 mins down to Darling Harbour.

As far as I know, you wouldn't have to move your son if you moved out of the catchment. But this would be worth checking as I don't have any direct experience. I went to a government selective school (I think its the equivelent of a grammar school here?) and finished in 98, my brothers went to St Andrews (the school I linked you to) and my two are only 2 and newborn now. When we go back (in about 3 years) we will be trying to get DD into the local primary school (assuming theres a good one near where we live...most are ok on the North Shore) and eventually a 'Low Fee Christian School'. These schools are private schools with fees similar to Catholic schools, but are protestant rather than Catholic (although anyone of any religion can attend) \link{http://www.covenant.nsw.edu.au/\Covenant Christian School} and \link{http://www.phcs.nsw.edu.au/\Pacific Hills Christian School} are two we are considering, which are on the North Shore. Theres also one called Northern Beaches Christian School, may be an option if you are considering Manly.

Sorry...I don't know if the school 'have' to take you even if they are full. I'd say no, because they might not have the space/staff etc. But I guess they would be very unlikely to run out of space for kids in the catchment, as they do offer out-of-catchment places too, as far as I know. I think if they are tight on room they would just offer fewer out-of-catchment spaces. Does that make any sense?

Having said that, if you arrived half way through the year (say), they wouldn't kick someone out to make room for your son, even if he was in the catchment! Maybe they hold some places in case people come? I don't know, but with Killara it would def be worth looking into as soon as you know for sure that you are going.

St Ives High is another local which I've heard is ok but not brilliant, and Chatswood High is quite good, so I've heard.

I will keep this thread on my watch list and check if you have more Qs, as I don't have that CAT thingie.

The places you've mentioned are right near us. We are in Gordon, with Pymble, St Ives, Turramurra etc just round the corner. In fact we're in the catchment for Killara High which gets the best results of any comprehensive in the state. Yes, if you are in the catchment for a school they have to take you. But if you move out of the catchment you don't lose your spot. Probably worth triplechecking this, but I'm sure I'm right. Any remaining places are offered to those outside the catchment area. I think ST Ives High is quite a good school - not as academically highflying as Killara, but a better social mix, I think.

I'm vaguely familiar with Pacific Hills, Covenant and Northern Beaches Christian as I teach a lot of students who move from those schools to my school (which has a large intake in Year 10). I think they are all gentle places to be.

If you're on the train line on the north shore, ie walking distance to station, it adds about $100K to the value of the house. For $500-$600K, you're not going to get a 4BR house near the trainline. If you go off the train line, though, you'll get closer, eg St Ives North, Wahroonga, West Pymble and so on. They would be a 10-15 min drive to the station, and then a 30 min trainride into the city. You and your kids would be car-dependent though as those areas have little in the way of public transport - a few buslines, but they're not great. The disadvantage of low-density living as here is that public transport becomes horribly expensive and therefore very limited.

As mentioned, Davidson, Frenchs Forest, Belrose, Ryde, Cherrybrook would be more of a commute but significantly cheaper for housing. If you're only coming for a year or two, I'd definitely rent not buy. Apart from anything else, the stamp duties here make it horrifically expensive to buy and sell, so you really don't want to buy a house for a short term only.

Just read your post bloss and thought you must be a supermum to be up so early...then remembered time difference

I'm a bit jelous of you right now...this thread is making me homesick :(

Great into thanks - I think researching those areas and schools will keep me busy for a while! You mentioned your school has a large intake in year 10 bloss - how come kids change schools at that stage? - I thought high school ran from years 7-12 (sorry if that's a really stupid question, but I've just about got my head around the British education system - I'm Irish - so I need to make sure I understand the Australian one if we're going there!). We've been having a bit of a re-think and we are both keen to keep our house here for a while if we can get enough rent to cover our horrible mortgage. Renting seems to be more common in Australia - am I right? - so it might make more sense until we settle down a bit.

ACtually no, sunny. Australia has the highest rate of home ownership in the world. And the rental market (today's papers say) is going to come under pressure in SYdney over the next few years, so get in fast with a long lease I think! :) THat said, there seems to be plenty of houses round here - I keep an eye on ti as we muse about it occasionally. Be warned though, it is almost unheard of to rent something furnished - at best you'd get a wardrobe and a bookshelf or two. We were amazed at what 'furnished' meant in the UK.

My school is a private boys school which accepts girls for the final three years. Hence the intake - a very unusual situation.

just to be contrary, the rental market here in Perth is booming. Many people buy second or third properties as investments and not one of them stands empty due to lack of renters.

Anyway, back to the Eastern States....

Sunny, I think you would be wise to hold onto your uk house initially.

Regarding furnishings, there is of course ebay and Ikea, and people in Sydney (esp the north shore) often sell some quality stuff (toys, clothes, furnishings, white goods) at garage sales, which are very popular. When you arrive check out your local paper's classifieds and you will likely find plenty of sales evey Saturday...

Just out of interest, what do your kids think of going?

However, I would advise you to do some careful maths and consider taking a fair bit over - at least all the basics. We only shipped 6 boxes from Sydney to Derby as we thought we would get a furnished place here. In the end we couldn't find one, and so we had to buy a house full of funiture (although we were donated a few things by folk at the church we are going to now!). It would have been cheaper to have shipped more I think. The problem with ariving with kids is that you can't really take your time finding things that are well priced, or even things you particularly like, so we just rushed around and bought loads and spent all our money!

\link{http://www.austrelo.com/\This}is the company we used...there are SO many to choose from but this was the best price for what we needed...they did take a month longer than what they said though.

This is all jumping the gun a bit though! Sorry, you are probably feeling bombarded by all this info and advice, when you are not even sure you are going!

Weird... the line
"Just out of interest, what do your kids think of going?"
was meant to be at the end of the message...not sure how it got into the middle! :)

I remembered from last time that in Oz unfurnished really does mean that - maybe we'll be letting out our house here unfurnished and shipping it all over; could really do without buying a whole house full of new stuff! I was recommending the garage sale thing to a friend of mine who moved to Freemantle recently for a year.

DH and I have spent most of the weekend talking about this and have decided to go through the immigration thing anyway, regardless of whether or not he will get a transfer with his current company. If we get the visa he can always look for a job elsewhere. Now I've got the possibility of going back in my head I so want to do it. I still remember how "at home" I felt in Sydney, and what a foreigner I feel a lot of the time in England. Attempts at being friendly here seem to class you as some kind of a wierdo, whereas people seem to just take you as they find you in Australia!

I like the look of St. Ives High school bloss. I would prefer a social mix, and the St. Ives website mentions learning support which will be crucial. Primaries around there also look nice - do you have any experience of them?

What is the story with leases? Is 12 months standard? If we don't sell here we will be looking to rent for 12 months and then make a decision about buying. Have property prices in Sydney levelled off or are they still climbing?

Re. what the kids think astrophe, DS1 was adamant that he didn't want to go and move schools again but after a long conversation about rugby, diving and surfing he now asks me every day when we're leaving! DS2 is seriously change averse and says he doesn't want to go, but at 7 I think it all just seems big and scary and he'll be fine. DD at 3 is still portable! We do have to take a holiday though before we finally commit - if the kids saw the place for themselves and were then adamant that they didn't want to go we would have to take their opinions into account. At the moment we're planning on a holiday early September, as long as DH's skills assessment comes back ok (which it should). It's not ideal season-wise but I'm really trying to push for an early January move because of schooling.

Sorry for rambling on - I really appreciate all the advice I'm getting here.

Yes, sunny, the primaries are also excellent. Ds goes to Gordon East - about 5 mins round the corner from St Ives HS. It's very small, but a nice family atmosphere. Gordon West is also very good, as is St Ives Primary (right next door to the HS). There are really no bad schools around here, though I suppose some are better than others.

September in Sydney is lovely! Might not be super hot (though it might), but it will probably be sunny and really pleasant temperatures. Thays why they held the 2000 olynpics in September - not too hot, very dry.

It really does mean unfurnished and no mistake, we had to rent our fridge and washing machine when we lived in Sydney

Oh, I used to mind two girls who went to gordon east when I was a uni student...it seemed nice. Now both girls go to St Ives High.

Sunny, you really got lucky with this thread! Can't believe bloss lives around the corner from your possible new suburb. Your kids might be sharing vegemite sandwiches next year :o

What are the chances, eh??!!

DH is SO impressed with mumsnet - he can't believe all the info I'm getting. He understands that he won't be the one at home with three kids in a place where I don't know a soul, so location-wise it's kind of my call (as long as his commute is no more than an hour or so). He has asked me to ask you one question re. salaries. He's been talking to the Sydney office and they seem to have a salary of around $120,000 in mind, though they didn't realise he was promoted recently so that would have been on the assumption that he was one grade down. We know that Australian salaries are lower but that is a massive drop for him and, bearing in mind this move is all about lifestyle, wants to make sure we don't get there and find ourselves worse off. I know it's a difficult one to answer, but is that considered a good/reasonable/not great salary in Sydney? Basically could we rent a nice house, run a car and live fairly well on that?

Its really hard to say as everyone obviously has different expectations/standards. Its certainly not a bad salary, but then most people in the area you are looking at earn well, and many would be double income families and DINKs (double income, no kids) so you wouldn't be the richest people in the area.

I grew up on the north shore and that was probably about my parents combined income, allowing for inflation and time having gone by! We lived in a nice big house (not a mansion or really posh, no pool, but very spaciaous and comfortable and a nice street etc), my two brothers went to private schools, we went on holidays (not overseas mind you...lots of north shore people probably go skiing in Switzerland every year...not us). We wern't 'rich' but certainly lived comfortably and had a good lifestyle.

The North Shore is a wealthy area on the whole, but there is a real mix within that group, and I think you and your kids would feel comfortable mixing with their peers if your DH has that income...

When we were living in Lane Cove my DH was earning about $50 000 pa! But we were renting an apartment and were just a couple, then we had our DD so we didn't have school fees etc.

Could you add up the cost of rental, school fees, school uniforms etc, clothing, petrol, public transport etc in $ so you knopw what you are in for? If you go to \link{http://www.homeshop.com.au/category.asp\Woolworths online shop} you could figure out how much your groceries would cost too.

I'll try and find out, but I think the average wage is about $45 000 pa...could be wrong though...

You are a gem astrophe! I'll have fun on that shopping site later. I know the salary question is kind of "how long is a piece of string", but it's so hard to know from this distance. Also, salaries aren't something that people normally discuss so it's great to be able to get some feedback from the relative anonymity of mumsnet!

:o glad to help... and its fun discussing my home town. I think you will love it there, its such a great city for kids.

I'm pretty sure average weekly earnings hit for men in full-time work hit $1000 a year or so ago. Your dh would be on very good money. Not mega-bucks, especially if you're not working, but very good. If you go for public education you'll be nice and comfortable. Private school fees may not be achievable for 2-3 children on that salary.

As an indication I probably spend $150-$200 a week on groceries for a family of four, and I think I'm comparatively profligate. (I only buy expensive cuts of meat because I don't like cheap ones. I buy top quality fruit and veg and never stint on it... etc.) Petrol prices are sky high by our standards at the moment, but I still only spend about $70-$80 a fortnight zipping around the north shore (including work and back every day plus weekend outings etc with children). From memory, a yearly train ticket for your dh would cost about $700-$1000 (somewhere in that range) to get from somewhere up here into the city. You can get dinner for two, not including wine, two courses for $50-$70 in a nice suburban restaurant. Movies cost about $13/14 (from memory - it's been ages!!) per adult. Ballet/swimming/gymnastics classes are around $12-$16 a class. A cheap but nice bottle of wine would be $12-$25.

Also, our tax and welfare system is biased against working mothers. You are better off with you full-time at time and dh on $120K, than you would be if you both worked and got $60K each.

'full-time at home'... that is.

Wow - cheap for food and trains bloss. Using XE.com to convert, DH currently pays $800 a MONTH for his train ticket to work, and I spend about double what you do on food for what sounds like the same quality of stuff. I generally put $100s worth of petrol a week in the car. These are really interesting comparisons as it does look like the salary isn't as awful as we thought. I would always use public schools if I could, though I have paid school fees in the past. Because of the age spread of my kids it would be an option to pay for DS1 in high school and send DS2 and eventually DD to a public primary. DS1 would be finished by the time DS2 hit high school and we could rethink then.

Just a question for you bloss if you don't mind.
how manageable would a monthly income of approx 6000 Aus dollars be for a family of 4. We would have no mortgage or tax to pay, just utilities food and pleasure etc

thanks

I know you have to compare somehow, but a direct comparison based on the exchange rate just doesn't work. Coming to the UK we find that if we use the exchange rate we would never buy anything here as its so expensive! We find that its more realistic to double the pounds to get the dollar value. So say you spend 100 pounds here on groceries, that would probably cost you about $200, as opposed to $250 IYSWIM.

Also was thinking of your DD and possible kindergartens for her (thats nursery...the 'norm' for kids with SAHMs is to go 2 full days a week at age 3, 3 days a week at age 4, then start school 5 days at age 5).

I tried to look it up and find you a link but no luck, but the Kindergarten Union (KU) run preschools which are generally fantastic. They run a short day program (9-3ish) and don't do 'long-day care' (8am-6pm) so you don't have the problem of poor, exhausted, overworked staff being there all day!

Many private 'long day care' centres also run a kindergarten program during the normal kindy hours, then also mind the kids for the longer hours. IMHO I'd say avoid those centers. Some, I'm sure are excellent, but some are just in it for big business and there was a scandal some years ago where the big centers were hiring extra staff and toys etc for the days when they were being inspected, then sending them packing when the inspectors left! And that still goes on.

From what I hear (my Mum works in the industry) its the corporate chains of LDC centres you have to watch...they are big chains like McDonalds really, which I find a bit creepy.

I'm fairly sure KU is a not for profit organisation and the funds go back into the kindergartens.

OBVIOUSLY I have a bee in my bonnet about this! Sorry to anyone whose kids go to one, as I said, I'm sure there are some good ones. :o

This is the best I could do...can't find a website for KU

Kindergarten Union of NSW

2 Phelps St Surry Hills 2010 (02) 9360 7505