North American mumsnetters - and those who've lived there

[Gem13]

We have the possibility of moving to either the US or Canada with DH's work in the next few months. He would be based at home with work trips to various offices all over the US and Canada.

So... we would have to choose where to live. The question is where? Ideally it would be East Coast as we could get back to see family and friends fairly easily (both sets of parents are in their 70s which is a consideration) but San Francisco and Vancouver appeal.

I want to be pretty central so that I could walk with the children (3 and nearly 2) to activities during the day, meet people, watch people, shop, etc. - feel a part of things. I don't want to end up in somewhere like Phoenix in a suburb with strip malls as 'town'. Another factor is that if DH is away for a couple of days a week I don't want to feel isolated.

At the moment I'm considering places near DC (Alexandria, Georgetown), Boston (though I know nothing about it), Toronto, New York city (stayed in Manhattan for a month but would Brooklyn or others suit?), Montreal (know nothing and our French is poor).

Any suggestions or recommendations?

Thanks again all. Sorry for not getting back before now - we have just moved and BT have screwed up the broadband connection (this is the second time they've done this to us following a move) and we won't have it for 2 more weeks!! So, I have to wait for DH to bring home his work PC and then use the 'free' work line.

Lots of points. Visas shouldn't be a problem as it will be done as a secondment through DH's work. They are an international company so personnel should be able to sort stuff out. Presume they will cover us for medical too. Hopefully, DH will continue to get paid his salary in pounds which would be good at the moment as the pound is strong. We live in an expensive part of the UK at the moment so I can only imagine housing will be cheaper for us (we will rent our house out).

Proximity to the airport is a must as DH will be travelling probably day trips (depending where we are and where he has to go of course) but I don't want him to have a long commute to the airport. One of the places he will definitely have to go to is Atlanta - another reason for the east coast. Shame as Seattle appealed too.

I should add that we have spent 6 months living in Philadelphia (center city), a month each in NY, San Francisco, Phoenix and Atlanta (liked the first 3, not so keen on the latter 2) so we are familiar with the US to some extent. I would like to be in a democrat area and a state that doesn't have the death penalty would be great but unlikely given the other considerations. I guess the most I could hope for is a liberal area.

Long, cold winters are an issue (particularly if I'm going to be stuck in with little ones) although in my limited experience other countries are better prepared than England and don't shut down at the first sign of snow/ice.

I've only briefly looked at Oakville but its first appearances of white middle class-ness makes me wonder if it's a bit like a cross between Disney's Celebration and Milton Keynes. Possibly not so liberal/arty/historical/alternative?

I'm looking at Montreal (NQC - a search on Outremont came up as being a wealthy Francophone area with a large Orthodox Jewish population, is that right?), Boston (North End and Roslindale sound appealing) and Toronto at the moment.

Just another Montreal note: sure there are English areas, but you miss out on a lot if you don't speak French. I lived near Outremont and that's a good description.

We lived in Great Neck, Long Island for 3 years - v handy for Manhattan, and JFK and la Guardia airports, and the climate nowhere near as harsh as eg Minnesota where we also lived for a year (MN winter below freezing for 3-4 solid months and we were there for a mild one )

In 3 LI winters we only experienced 1 major blizzard and that thoughtfully came on a Friday evening in Feb and then the reliable NY sun came out for shovelling in

You might like Brooklyn a lot, you know, esp one of those lovely areas on the river with a view of Manhattan.

Oh, and, forgot to say, Great Neck was an English-style town and walking wasn't looked on as an aberration, and I think Brooklyn would be similar. In Minneapolis nobody walked anywhere (except in the parks and downtown).

Thanks for that JanH. We're only really considering the really well known cities as we want to enjoy our time there and get the most out of holidays, weekends, etc. We've always treated our time in places as tourists and tried to get to see the sights (more of them presumably in NY than MN). Plus if we aim for a 'tourist' city there is more likely to be competition for cheap flights for (hopefully) visiting relatives.

Walking is a must for me. We've recently moved back into a town in England as I was so fed up of putting the children in the car and missing out on that interaction with them, fresh air, and exercise. So older cities/areas/neighborhoods which still have walkable streets and are not designed around the car are important.

DH likes the idea of California. Berkeley really appeals and thinking about the accessibility and quality of the beaches compared to the cold on the East Coast appeals!

Long Island beaches at least as lovely as CA ones I would think, Gem, and no smog! (Very hot and sweaty some of July/August, but fab weather May - Sept/Oct apart from that...)

I'm a Northeast Corridor native living in Asia now. I've lived outside of Boston, in Manhattan, and in Georgetown. They are all great places with their own merits. Boston is GREAT for children. I have twin 2 1/2 year olds that I bring back to visit my parents. Except for the cold weather, I'd move back there in a heartbeat. There is a fabulous Children's Museum, Science Museum, Swan Boat rides in Boston Common, Drumlin Farm, all sorts of public playgrounds in the Greater Boston area, YMCAs, you definitely can't go wrong. Boston also has amazing medical facilities everywhere. I'm assuming your husband would get medical insurance coverage through his company. Should you need fertility treatment, Massachusetts requires that health insurance companies cover treatment, including IVF.

My parents live in a wealthy suburb called Newton, just outside the gates to Boston College. There is a T (as the public transportation trolley trains are called) station a five minute walk from where they live. It brings you straight into Boston. So you can live in the suburbs and still have easy access to the city. Lots of New England excursions (mountains for hiking and skiing, beaches, foliage, quaint villages) to be had.

Washington, DC is lovely too with all the free museums & monuments. I was there in university so I can't say how good of a kid town it is. The public transportation system is good. Georgetown is lovely but there's no underground there. There are lots of nice excursions into Virginia, Maryland and West Virginia. The weather is quite mild, I found it perfect.

NYC, well, it's just an amazing place. I suppose it's a bit like London in that there are all kinds of people from everywhere, great restaurants, world class entertainment and cultural venues. Rent is quite high, but not as high as comparable neighborhoods in London. Brooklyn Heights, Park Slope, Cobble Hill, and other Brooklyn neighborhoods are all options, but I think if you're only going to be in NYC for a short while (like two years), live in Manhattan and visit Brooklyn. Excellent healthcare available here as well, though I don't think health insurance is required to cover fertility treatments.

Having lived in all these places, I would now choose to live in Boston because it's a great place to bring up children.

I think Montreal is a lovely city. I have several friends from Toronto who all love it (okay, they are all expats so they can't love it that much). I personally would go absolutely crazy with how long the winters are there and how damn cold it gets! I'm used to Havana-like weather now and just don't want to go back to the deep freeze.

My two cents.

Good luck.

As I was pushing the children through the hail this afternon and it was dark (at 4.30)and my youngest could hardly walk because she was so bundled up and when we got in everyone howled with the cold and wet I decided it had to be California.

But then Boston comes along sounding excellent and I'm back to the beginning again! Thanks singaporesling for the rundown on the cities. In Boston I've been researching North End, Brighton and Roslindale as possibilities. I want to be pretty central. Do you have any info on these?

JanH - can you suggest anywhere on Long Island? Where were you and did you like it?

My parents live on the border of Brighton. It's a mixed area with all sorts: students of Boston College and Boston University, blue collar workers, young professionals, etc. Brighton is part of the City of Boston, but some parts feel quite sub-urban. It's easy to get into Boston via the T or driving. There are lots of playgrounds within a few mile radius. Larz Anderson Park is a few miles away. It's a beautiful park with playing fields, picnic area with BBQ pits, a lovely children's playground, and a large pond with duck, geese and swans. Living in Brighton is a little sub-urban even though it's part of the City of Boston. Then again, it depends on where in Brighton you live.

You can either live in a house with a yard or an apartment building. The public school system isn't the greatest, but there are lots of private schools in the area. Newton & Brookline have excellent public schools (I think both border Brighton and both are easily accessible from Boston, but are more expensive). I think pretty much where ever you are in Brighton, you can walk to a T, a grocery or drugstore, or coffee shop. Closer into Boston, near Allston, Brighton has some not so pretty, but ethnically interesting areas. Closer towards Newton, it can be quite nice. Brighton is gentrifying...20 years ago, it was definitely not so nice but now I think a lot of it is quite nice with ethnic restaurants, delis, pizzarias, pubs, etc.

I am not familiar with Roslindale.

The North End is really in Boston proper, so it's city living. It used to be a tough, strictly Italian immigrant area, but gentrification happens as it often does and now a townhouse in the North End will cost an arm and a leg. Lots of well-to-do youngish bankers/lawyers/dotcommers live here (so I hear). I don't know a lot about the area, but it would certainly be easy to get around Boston. I don't think it's easy to get outdoor space here though. However, Boston Common and the Public Gardens are easily accessible (though I easily bring my kids there on the T from Brighton).

I think you need to think about

1. How long is your intended stay?
2. How important is it to you to have a garden?
3. Do you want to live in a house or apartment?
4. Will you have a car (I highly recommend getting a car so that you can take advantage of all that New England has to offer)?
5. Will you have to pay for school? Or do you plan on sending the children to public school (remember public school here is government operated, the opposite of the UK).

Hope this helps

i'm canadian. lived all around the toronto area until i was about 21. nice area, cheap, nice people.

we're looking to go back so i've been doing my homework lately.

missasauga and oakville (south-west side of toronto) are employment hot spots right now. these areas also have a nice option to commute into from much lower priced towns and villages along the coast of lake ontario. towns like Grimsby, Beamsville, Vineland... leading all the way down to Niagara.

Hi there... just to add some more info about Boston. I live outside Boston with 2 small kids. It is a great place to bring up kids. The seasons are part of the charm even the winter - I actually love the winter. We moved from Ireland where when it rained it was miserable. The snow is different. There are so many winter sports - even for the little kids - snow sledding, ice skating at the Frog Pond in Boston common (from about age 3 up)..once you're all bundled up with warm clothes you can easily get out and about. The only time things shut down is during heavy snowstorms. A few hours later all the roads are cleared again. Its quite amazing.

One thing I really like about the weather is that its pretty certain what it will be like at each season and you can plan things. You can plan to ski in the winter - all the main resorts have childcare from 2 mo+... from 3 or 4 you can enroll the kids in learn to ski programs. In the summer it is Hot and beaches are a short drive...etc.

Re. areas, I would not recommend Roslindale - it does not have a good reputation (crimewise). Though I don;t really know much else about it.

Newton and surrounding areas are fab and accessible by public transport and parks / shops etc.. Another really nice area for families is Brookline. North End wouldn't be top of my list to live in... great for nightlife but apartments are small and v.expensive. Cambridge v. nice too with a great liberal/ethnic feel.

I love Canada too, Love Montreal (5 hour drive from Boston). Montreal has a tougher winter. But a more fun city (for adults).

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the extra replies - I'm sorry this a belated thank you but BT have only just sorted out our broadband line (3 weeks after our move...)

Things are still uncertain re. DH's work so it won't be until Spring next year when we find out if we can go. It looks like it might be Vancouver or possibly Long Island as the only options. Disappointing as the more I read about Boston, the more I wanted to go there. Obviously Vancouver and NY would be good too but we shall wait and see now.

Thanks again.

Ooh, hi, again, Gem - missed your post asking about LI.

We were in Great Neck which is mostly dead posh - lots of seriously upmarket estates, some of them gated. It is a lovely neighbourhood (our bit much more downmarket, needless to say!, but still spacious and leafy) and much of the North Shore is similar. If your DH is going to be working in Manhattan then you want to be in Nassau County rather than Suffolk which is much further out.

North Shore isn't beachy despite its closeness to the water; the beaches are on the South Shore. Some here - we used to go to Jones Beach on weekday evenings, Fire Island sometimes at the weekend (ferry over, no cars, hence the little red Radio Flyer wagon on the banner).

The middle parts are mixed and could be anywhere really. The whole place pretty much is on the Long Island Railroad (LIRR) (map - lots of towns shown here for you to google on!) which makes commuting by train pretty quick.

You could also consider parts of Queens (eg Little Neck, where John McEnroe grew up, slightly further in than Great Neck - some fabulous big old houses there) as well as Brooklyn, or have you dismissed that?