pros and cons of life in sydney and australia in general

[happyinsydney]

Hi, have been lurking for a while,I would like to hear your opinions about the following. We are in the process of applying for a partner visa to move to Sydney for a couple of years (possibly permanently). We are very excited at the prospect of starting a new life in Sydney, but have days of complete panick. We do not know anybody there, my dp has an Australian passport but only lived there when he was a toddler. I have only experienced Sydney on a long holiday when we were childless and with 2 salaries. Now we have 1 ds and 1 salary. Would like to know your thoughts about moving to Oz, pros and cons, etc.

I'm interested to know, too

Am in Queensland. SPent four years living in the UK - met dh, married him, had dd1 and dd2 on the way when we emigrated to Australia. ( I am an aussie) we both left good jobs, dh's family, fabulous friends and a village we loved to move here.

Pros -

weather, more relaxed way of life, more outdoor way of life, I can be a SAHM with both dds and we are not struggling as we would if we had stayed in the UK. We would not have been able to afford a decent mortgage. weather, people seem more accepting of dh than they did of me - an aussie in the UK, the climate here in Queensland, so many opportunities to try new things. We are always out and about with the girls - at the beach, bushwalking, eating out, and so on.

Cons - sorry - probably my bias but can't think of any. Guess for us - it is missing family and good friends. My in-laws have not seen dd2 and she is 10 months old already. HAving said that have had two lots of friends out to visit already and we are planning a trip back in the next couple of years.

I think you need to just take the leap and I guess if it doesn't work out - you can always go back to the UK. It was a little easier for us as I had family and friends here BUT it was still a concern - our dd1 has special needs and we did not know the quality of services that we would be able to access for her - or the quality of medical care - BOTH have been excellent. The services in terms of therapy etc are excellent compared to what we had access to in the UK. I still had to make new friends though as I left Aus a single working woman and returned as a SAHM - that was a little hard - but getting out and about with the girls has made that easier. DH had a fab job in the NHS and he left with no job to come to here in Aus. He got a job within a month of us being here and then went on to get a better job within the next few months after that. We also had a house to come to as I kept my property and rented it out whilst I was overseas.

Sydney is quite expensive in terms of real estate etc... there are other places that would not be so expensive - Brisbane, Perth, outside the big cities.

Having said all that - we have had days where we wondered whether we made the right decision but then we see how far especially dd1 has come and we know it was the best thing we could have done for her and us as a family.

Sorry that was a ramble but hopefully something helpful is in there

Thanks. I have only ever lived in a big city, in England and Europe which is why we have decided to opt for Sydney for the time being, Brisbane does sound wonderful though, and Perth too. Eidsvold: are you saying that the Australian health care system is good in general? And what about the benefits system and schools?

the schools are fantastic
I'm english, married to an Australian, moved to Perth from London last year.

Sydney is expensive as eidsvold says, and has the usual encumbering issues and problems of any big city but the general quality of life that Australians demand and receive is second to none IME

If you've got dp's Aussie passport you would be crazy not to give it a go for at least a couple of years,

schools are as they are in the UK - some brilliant, some okay and some that need some work.

Health care - when we told the London cardiologist looking after dd1 where we were going and what hospital she would be having her outpatients at - they told me it was a very good hospital and that they had heard good things about it. Dd1 also has a variety of outpatient appts at the children's hospital. So far we have no complaints. IT was more the allied health - physio, speech and OT. Dd1 got very little of all three in the UK and here we get so much.

As Suzy said - quality of life is sooo much better.

Give it a go and see what you think. If you really really hate it - head back to the UK - nothing ventured, nothing gained.

You also need to give it a decent go - at least a year or more. I found when I moved to the UK - I did not feel settled until I had been there about a year .... at first it was hard - I knew no one but did have a job to go to and then found a fab place to live, and then friends and so on. So having done it the other way I can appreciate your apprehension. BUT I loved the opportunity I had to live and work in the UK and glad I did it.

Suzywong: is there anything you miss about London? We don't have any family we are particularly attached to here in the UK, so we will not have that problem, and friends can always visit, phone, email. I keep thinking that I will get to Sydney and I will start pining for my local park, the English rain, Woman's Hour and English sense of humour, and lots of other things about London... Then I remember why we want to get away: indifferent summers, long winters, no outdoor life for the kids, competitive London parents, pressures London kids seem subjected to. By the way what is the Australian sense of humour like?

well, let me answer that by telling you that i am at this moment listening to the XFM archives of Ricky Gervaise's radio shows from last year, just to get my fix of English humour. So yes I miss it terribly, but I have the magical interweb, and with that i can email, msn and send jpgs to my friends and receive them and even listen to radio 4.

I do miss my local park, I reminiscing with ds1, 4.5yrs, today about our trips to Highgate Woods, the Heath and waterlow park and it was nice but IMO here is nicer, and in Sydney the natural scenery will blow you away. You may miss a May morning or a September afternoon but you can always find something to fill the gap in your senses in Australia.

Come on over

Hi HIS,

I moved to Sydney 6 weeks ago. I travelled over on my own with DD (2.9). DP will hopefully be here soon.

I'm quite new but so far I love it. People are friendly, the food is amazing, outdoor lifestyle excellent.

DD has just joined a new preschool, 2 days per week. She has wonderful facilities - big outdoor playcentre, with huge pirate ship, sandpit, slides, play houses etc. They serve beautiful fresh food and expect the children to help themselves with tongs. They do cookery and Italian. Amazing! So much better than our London one.

We go down to the beach, lots of outdoor things, drink smoothies instead of wine (and I didn't think that would EVER happen to me!). There is so much going on, it's very friendly and family. DD is out doing things every day and this is 100% a better place for her.

What do I miss? The internet isn't as well developed. I can't find size 9 shoes and laydeez don't go into pubs (they are definitely not like pubs at home) - I miss beer gardens. But then, if you can sit on a terrace drinking a glass of wine overlooking cockle bay, why would you need a beer garden?

If you have any questions, let me know. I am trying to work out how I can stay her permanently, I love it so much.

Hi - I'm an Aussie who is much happier living in England than Aus. Been here since 1979. I used to find Aussie summers too hot (and that was in Melbourne!) I couldn't relate to the Aussie OBSESSION with sport - and especially winning at all costs. Christmas was a sad, tawdry affair lacking the essential element of cold weather. Australia's white history is only 200 years old (my dad is 90 so has been alive for half of it!) and I found that lack of depth of history somehow disconcerting.

However I realise I'm in the vast minority in not feeling comfortable in Aus. My only explanation is that I was born 'English' - I adore the soft grey skies of England, rain, winter, indoor hobbies, history, I can admit to detesting football and cricket and not be considered a freak, I can swim breastroke and not be laughed at, Christmas comes at the 'proper' time of year and robins really do sit on red post boxes in the snow! Life is just 'normal' and 'nice' in England!!

I expect you will LOVE Aus - everyone except me does! So go for it and have a FAB time.

I love living in Australia,wouldnt live anywhere else. Like other ppl said aussies are friendly and laid back and usually the weather is great-no snow-no earthquakes etc. Ive never been to Sydney but I hear it is quite expensive to rent or buy houses compared to my home-Adelaide.We have a great health care system over here so were pretty lucky there.I also hear the shoppings great in Sydney!!!!!

Well to be honest I cannot wait to move to Sydney, reading these messages has made me remember what I loved about the city. I love London (I am not British, but I have lived in London for 15 years) but since having ds cannot do any of the things I used to do (cinema, theatre, dancing,etc). I guess we can always come back to the UK when and if things do not work out. I want my ds to spend his childhood doing things outdoors, so much better....
Pinotgrigio,out of curiosity in which bit of Sydney are you staying? I looked at prices of rental accommodation over the net, a lot cheaper than London and other European cities...though we will only rent a 2 bed unit to start off with. Will you be able to stay longer through your job?

I can add a little to this, I am in England looking to move to Oz, we have been on visits to Sydney 3 times, shortest was for a month and longest for 10 weeks, and lived with an Australian family so not in hotels etc. I think I would miss Tescos (how sad is that), food shops dont seem to be as good over there as here and I would always try to come home for christmas. We were there for christmas and it just didnt seem the same, christmas trees and all the decorations in baking heat and strong sunlight. And eating christmas dinner in next to nothing as its sooooo hot.

oh god I forgot, I miss tescos dreadfully it's not sad at all

Here, here Redsky.
May I add not being able to travel abroad without spending a fortune.

Feeling that the rest of world forgets you exists except when you do well at sport.

If you choose to live in outside the main cities it can take you days to get a real city and culture is almost non existant ( outside the cities that is)

Outdoor lifestyle= skin cancer
Is 12,000 miles from england.

CHristmas is crappy in the middle of summer.- There is no atmosphere.

You have to drive everywhere.

Surbuban sprawl.

What else? I am sure I will think of something.

thanks Cori - How about these?
People shopping in bare feet - yuk yuk yuk

Soulless recreation grounds and no parks

Ghastly garish suburbs instead of villages

Burning hot pavements - and burning hot sand at the beach. Hot sand stinging you on north wind days.

Spiders - and not just in the outback

The harsh bright glaring white sunlight that makes everything dazzle.

The Aussie accent - and the way everything sounds like they are asking a question.

Sense of isolation from 'the real world'

Rubber flip flops - another yuk yuk yuk (known as thongs)

I always know when I'm nearly home cos the standard of dress declines noticeably the closer I get to Melbourne. By the time the plane lands I'm usually the only one not dressed in shabby shorts, raggy t-shirt and thongs.

Houses freezing cold in winter cos they are more concerned with keeping cool in summer than warm in winter.

Assumption that anything outdoorsy and rugged is 'a good thing' including nasty bbqs - and anything related to indoors is therefore woosy or ponsy.

Nasty uninspiring supermarkets. Emphasis on low prices over quality. No Marks and Spencers. No Sainsbury's, Tescos, Waitrose or Asda - in fact nowhere to buy nice basic food.

In your face advertising - no subtlety, irony or humour to it.

FLIES!

And those are just for starters!

soulless recreation grounds and no parks

oh you poor, poor Victorians. It sounds just like something out of Kath and Kim.

However I do agree about the awful advertising " Bob and Geoff are having a tile sale, Sunday.... so get down to Bob and Geoff's tile shed on Sunday"

But you know what Iwouldn't swap the nuances of the latest Audi add or the needle and dogshit strewn parks of North London for anything now I have seen what the quality of life can be like

I'm going to finish my studies work for a couple of years then were emigrating. Not sure if it will be australia or new zealand yet.

The idea of an outdoor life is so appealing sick and tired of being cooped up inside on those weeks were it just rains and rains and rains and even more rain! Plus went to the bank today to open a bank account and was told that I couldn't open it at the bank I had to do it over the internet Everything has gone mad over here!
If the problems are the same abroad it will still be an improvement as we'll beable to get out more and work off some of that stressssss!!!!!

Agree, the only time I start to feel a bit homesick is during the loooooonnng winter months. However will never trade in the ability to hope on a plane and escape the winter blues to an exotic destination in less than 3 hours.
I also miss living by the coast.

other cons
Bank Charges ( being charged for more than four withdrawals a month - WTF)
Mosquitos.
Australian politicans.
The most dangerous snakes in the world
The most dangerous spider in the world ( Sydney Funnel web)
Misogynistic society
Horrible beer, and horrible pubs.
P.S What do you call a cultured Australian -An expat.

If I could hop to an exotic European country at the drop of a hat, I would certainly not go to Sydney, unfortunately I am not wealthy, do not live in Primerose Hill, and can afford 1 seaside holiday a year. So might as well live somewhere beautiful....

Meant Primrose Hill.

Actually, you're right aobut he bank charges too... and Cor Blimey don't I miss a nice old London local boozer.

The answer is yes I do, very much so

But I'm the same as h-i-s, we tried doing Go flights and cheap accommodation to europe but the inierminable Heathrow side of the dear ( or Luton) and the hidden costs was prohibitive, and here I feel like I'm on holiday every day.

Hi HIS,

I'm in Bondi Junction. Prices are high in Sydney, but if you're used to London prices it's not too much of a shocker. You can get some good value units here. I didn't realise that it was next to impossible to rent furnished places though - I've had to rent unfurnished and then rent furniture (as I don't know if I'm staying I can't buy any).

There are lots of lovely villages in the Eastern Suburbs of Sydney.

I'm really hoping I can stay. My contract finishes in January, so I'll have to find another job then. If I can't find one in Sydney I'll have to go back to London.

Aussie pros-

largish back gardens with room to play or socialise etc - without it costing a fortune, despite being in the suburbs - have seen koalas opposite in the trees a number of times.

we are 30 minutes from beach one way or
bush/rainforest the other way - can choose what we want to do.

Have lived in a small country town and did not find it a cultural wasteland - in fact I learnt so much about the aboriginal culture and the farming/land culture ( being a city girl knew none of that)

More egalitarian - anyone can achieve anything - rather than having your place because of where you were born or who your parents were or where you went to school. People more judged on their own merits than their background etc

Despite the worry of spiders etc - ( in 35 years I have lived here) have seen one redback, one king brown snake, had to get out of the water once because of a shark.

Fresher air... even in the cities

Amazing larger skies - stars always seem brighter and the sky is bigger... weird but true ( even had an english guy who backpacked round aus agree with that one)

Dining out all year round

Not having to have 10 layers on to go out

More time spent with the family - most aussies seem to have the family/work life balance sorted

More of a variety of places to eat and drink rather than just the local pub

I personally love a sunny christmas - everyone gets together and it is fab - seems to not have as much agro attached that I witnessed in the UK - people stressed about getting places seeing family etc. Lots of people have their summer holidays through the Christmas period and so people tend to be more relaxed. Loved the idea of beach christmas - having fabulously fresh seafood and a barbie. Last year the nieces and dd1 swam in the pool and we just hung out and grazed all afternoon - girls were able to get out in the yard - play with their toys, wear themselves out without all being confined to the house... with 7 adults and four children.

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Pinotgrigio
If we could afford to live in the Eastern Suburbs then it would possible consider it. DH grew up in Dover Heights and is too much of a snob to consider living elsewhere in Sydney. I grew up in Newcastle. For those of you dont know australia well- Porpoise spit (aka Muriels Wedding)