Did Henry VIII really pray with the Pope 500 years ago?

[PrincessFiorimonde]

Lots of reports such as this one from Sky News:

"The King will become the first British monarch to pray publicly with the Pope since the Reformation 500 years ago"

But did a British (surely would have been "English" at that time?) monarch actually pray with the Pope in the same church/chapel/room 500 or so years ago? Or indeed at ANY time before then?

Please can you tell me if you know this ever happened.

You’re right, it’s not like it’s something that happened regularly before the reformation.

There are a couple of early ones that did I think. Edward I in the 13th century, but not sure they prayed together publicly rather than just met. Maybe everyone significant who met the Pope back then prayed with him - might as well while you’re there!

It’s badly worded. There’s no evidence that Henry VIII ever met the pope in his day, even less prayed with him. 1534, the date mentioned, was when Henry rejected the Catholic Church and began what became known as the Reformation, but it’s not like he regularly hung out with popes of his day even before that. Before Henry there may have been the occasional English monarch who had met a pope but details and evidence are scarce. Praying together is probably impossible to prove.

Queen Elizabeth II met plenty of popes but I have no idea about praying with them.

Henry VIII never met a pope to the best of my knowledge. He was granted the title "Defender of the Faith" by Pope Leo X in 1521 for his book Assertio Septem Sacramentorum (Defense of the Seven Sacraments), a response to Martin Luther. After Henry VIII's break with Rome, the title was revoked by the Pope but was later restored by English Parliament to Henry and his successors.

totally separate to this aspect of past history but the queens head dress was possibly the ugliest thing i have ever seen..
the king wore a blue suit the queen's black just looked almost demonic.
now surely if it was black tie, the king should have worn black and maybe someone should have told the queen the spiky feathers looked like horns.

i would assume (from movies) lots of back and forth communications between king henry and the pope on matters of his first wife and the request for an annulment??

It’s not “black tie”, but women wear black and a veil (unless you are a catholic queen and therefore have “le privilège du blanc” and can wear white).

I agree Camilla’s looked quite odd, but Diana, Queen Elizabeth, Michelle Obama, Melania, Ivanka have all worn black veils. Ivanka’s was particularly stupid looking. I don’t think it suited any of them.

@ShesTheAlbatross I didn't know that Edward I, or any other English monarch, ever met a Pope. Interesting to know that happened; thanks for the info.

@FullLondonEye yes, I guess Elizabeth II met plenty of popes, and I agree it was never reported that they prayed together - but who knows?

@BreakingBroken yes, of course lots of back and forth between H8 and the Pope re: Henry's desired annulment, but I'm sure all negotiations were done through intermediaries, rather than the two of them ever meeting face to face.

According to google the pope (clement) did meet with king Henry over this.
Day of Mediation held at Westminster Abbey.
Not sure it involved a prayer though.
https://acctm.org/docs/BAILEY%20ACEVEDO%20-%20FINAL%20REFORMATTED%20-%20Mediation%20Between%20King%20Henry%20-%20RUBIN.pdf

I'm so glad you posted this as I thought exactly the same thing when I saw the headline.
I was thinking of asking FakeHistoryHunt on Twitter/ X .

If the quote is accurate, it says “since the Reformation”. It does not say “since Henry VIII prayed with a Pope before the Reformation. It’s just referring to the split from Rome, which covered a period of time rather than a specific day.

But this is what I find odd. Unless Henry is known to have prayed with the pope shortly before that date then it's not remotely relevant. I don't know why it should have been mentioned. Saying for example that I refuse to eat rabbit since watching Watership Down presumes that I did eat rabbit until then (I didn't, btw. Never have.) but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

I thought Camilla’s headpiece was fabulous. Which is not the point of the thread, I know.

Apparently QEII met 5 popes and gave one some balmoral whiskey 🥃

Apparently QEII met 5 popes and gave one some balmoral whiskey 🥃

ewtn.co.uk/article-a-look-back-at-queen-elizabeth-iis-encounters-with-five-popes/

I’m taking a theological studies course and this week we looked at the reformation.

Our lecturer referred to exactly this point because of the headlines about King Charles III and the pope. Our lecturer emphasised that there is no record of a pre-reformation monarch praying with the pope in Rome, which makes the headline misleading as you say.

DH asked this exact question this morning and we have been wondering about it. Agree the statement of the time period has been badly worded.

I may have misread, but I can't see a specific mention in that link saying that H8 and Pope Clement 7 actually met face to face. (Apologies if I missed the mention!)

page 5 mentions what was said by whom if one is to believe this written piece.

"Our lecturer emphasised that there is no record of a pre-reformation monarch praying with the pope in Rome"

@erinaceus that's what I was thinking. But does your lecturer think that no English monarch ever even met a Pope anywhere at all? (NB@shesthealbatross suggests that Edward I may have met a Pope - though of course they may not have prayed together.)

King Henry was a Roman Catholic until the day he died.

There was an actual English pope. Hadrian , can't recall his number! Birth name Nicholas Brakspeare. He issued the Papal Bull giving Henry II his approval to invade Ireland , way back in the 12th century. But I've no idea whether he met Henry 2. Convenient getting your lad on the See of Peter ....

@BreakingBroken oh I see. But I read that as a scenario that might have happened rather than something that did actually happen. One clue is that both Pope Julius 2 and Pope Clement 7 are said to have been there - but there can't have been two Popes at the same time at that date. (Julius died in 1513, while Clement became Pope in 1523.) And the language used in the "conversation" certainly doesn't belong to the 16th century.

@PrincessFiorimonde I don’t know whether a pre-reformation monarch ever met the pope. I did notice the lecturer was specific about the circumstance that did not happen. The lecturer specified both that no serving monarch and in Rome. If I remember correctly there was one person who travelled to Rome before they were crowned monarch. But I don’t remember all the details and this was not the main point of the lecture, more a current event that tied in with the teaching.

@erinaceus Thanks for your reply. Sounds as though your lecturer chose their words carefully, which I imagine is good academic practice (indeed, it's good practice in general!).