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History club

Whether you're interested in Roman, military, British or art history, join our History forum to discuss your passion with other MNers.

Born before 1959? Want to chat about your memories of the 1960s and 1970s?

163 replies

SequentialAnalyst · 01/10/2023 12:38

This is a thread to do just that Smile And to compare, contrast, and discuss our memories of living through those times with MNers around the world, and share good stuff from those days we might have overlooked back in the day Smile

I'm sorry to have to write this: but please No BabyBoomer Blaming or Bashing.

Wherever you come from, whatever your experience, whether you saw the Stones in the Park, or whether you could only listen longingly to Radio Luxembourg on your transistor radio in your bedroom, this is the place for you.

@AcrossthePond55 Could you do a similar para re the range of US experiences?

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Turquioseblue · 03/10/2023 02:32

The Sound of Music came out when I was at primary school and we had to sing Edelweiss over and over again!
I fell madly in love with Christopher Plummer after I watched the dance scene!

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 03/10/2023 10:45

Thanks for helping me sort out the order of the various adventure series, SequentialAnalyst.

I saw The Sound of Music and wondered (still wonder) what on earth Julia Andrews did with her shoulders when she was wearing That Dress; in all her other clothes she looked like a normal human being with collar bones and shoulder joints, but somehow she managed in That Dress to have the silhouette of a Victorian lady in a Punch illustration, boneless from the neck down...

https://thegraphicsfairy.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Victorian-Lady-Fan-GraphicsFairy-1.jpg

My school had a complete set of Punch bound into volumes, possibly from 1841 onwards, which I used to read when it was so boring in the evening that I couldn't stand it any longer, so I saw quite a lot of those cartoons. And before anyone says how come that and bicycling across town to watch telly, boarding school and holidays.

They wouldn't let us watch Up Pompeii! at school. Or Rowan and Martin's Laugh-In. Or Monty Python. Or come to that any comedy, I don't think. The school had a single television, and you had to get signed permission to watch anything on it at all and that only if it was turned on by a member of staff.

https://thegraphicsfairy.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Victorian-Lady-Fan-GraphicsFairy-1.jpg

SequentialAnalyst · 04/10/2023 00:11

Did everyone go away again?

Just popped on to let @AcrossthePond55 know that I posted on the Trump thread - but it turned out to be the 1000th post. Just my luck! So if you want to start the next one...

(Apologies, history club folks)

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AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 04/10/2023 13:19

History is being made over in the USA; no apology needed, I wouldn't have thought.

SequentialAnalyst · 04/10/2023 13:28

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime By accident, I used the last post, when it would have been better to have one with a link to the next US politics thread.

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AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 04/10/2023 13:32

Saw that. Can we be told here where the new one is, when/if it happens? I have written to MNHQ asking if they could put in a link at the end of the one that's full, but I suspect that they can't if they are not told where the new thread is, and of course I can't do that.

CurlewKate · 04/10/2023 13:44

Will there be a sing around in the lounge later? Maybe a game of cards?

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 04/10/2023 13:49

Thank you!

SequentialAnalyst · 04/10/2023 14:16

CurlewKate · 04/10/2023 13:44

Will there be a sing around in the lounge later? Maybe a game of cards?

After we've heard that Vera Lynn song. Again Envy

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AcrossthePond55 · 04/10/2023 16:39

SequentialAnalyst · 04/10/2023 14:16

After we've heard that Vera Lynn song. Again Envy

Now now, if you're talking about 'We'll Meet Again' I love that song. Also love 'The White Cliffs of Dover'. Both are really good 'singer's songs'.

So children, gather round the piano. And a 1 and a 2 and..

'We'll meet again, on the new Doofus threaaaaad...."

AcrossthePond55 · 04/10/2023 16:43

So back to our childhoods.

There really doesn't seem to be a US equivalent to the UK's 'holiday camps'. Since my knowledge of what went on there is limited to The Who's 'Tommy' can someone tell me what a typical 'holiday camp holiday' consisted of?

Also, were there really such a thing as a 'Mystery Tour' where people showed up and bought tickets having no idea where they were going to end up?

SequentialAnalyst · 04/10/2023 18:22

Oh yes, mystery tours were a standard offering for local coach companies. They were sometimes one day, sometimes two. There would be local pickup, and they would give you a time to meet the coach. Often too early for me, though I was tempted to book one just for fun! My lovely next door neighbour used to go on them in the 1990s. In fact, she got so she knew where they might be going! Usually to some popular spot, with a cheap night's hotel accommodation, which the coach company would block book, so coach company and hotel happy.

This is in NE England, but they were offered all over the country. This kept tiny coach companies going, but now there are only a few left, making a living by being school buses, including taking pupils on school outings to farms, swimming etc, and covering the obscure but important rural routes round here that the council have to subsidise.

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SequentialAnalyst · 04/10/2023 18:26

I have to add, back in the day people would go off to the seaside (eg Blackpool), or away football matches by coach, and it was likely that the whole coach would have a sing-a-long en route. (You have to bear in mind that car ownership among the working class is a relatively recent thing in England. We are tiny compared to most US states, and most people worked locally, so it wasn't a problem at the time.)

So the real thing is but a surreal stretch away from the Beatles' version.

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thenightsky · 04/10/2023 21:08

SequentialAnalyst · 04/10/2023 18:26

I have to add, back in the day people would go off to the seaside (eg Blackpool), or away football matches by coach, and it was likely that the whole coach would have a sing-a-long en route. (You have to bear in mind that car ownership among the working class is a relatively recent thing in England. We are tiny compared to most US states, and most people worked locally, so it wasn't a problem at the time.)

So the real thing is but a surreal stretch away from the Beatles' version.

Edited

Round here we still have the occasional coach trip to London. Leave from the leisure centre at 7am, with a couple of pick up in nearby villages. Sing-a-longs on the way home with wine boxes being dribbled into people's drinks bottles.

Notlaughingalot · 04/10/2023 21:13

Roussette · 01/10/2023 13:53

Oh yes! And who remembers party lines? You shared your telephone line with neighbours which meant you could listen in to their calls!

And if you needed the phone in a hurry and they were talking you just kept tapping the handset rest thing to alert them

I'm so old that I remember our number going from XXXXX (place) 3 digits to 4 digits

I'm older than a lot of people on here, but I still remember the telephone boxes where you had to push button A and button B.

Notlaughingalot · 04/10/2023 21:18

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 01/10/2023 18:27

AcrossthePond55
I've read (mostly on MN) about the post war shortages, rationing, and 'austerity' in Britain that seem to have lasted until the '70s and I wonder why the US didn't do more to help the UK during the postwar period. We say we have a 'special relationship' but it doesn't seem like we were very generous. So, possibly a naive question...was it really as bad as it's portrayed? No heating, rationing, outdoor plumbing, sharing bathwater, food shortages are some of the things I've heard mentioned. Were these things 'reality' in post war Britain or just lifestyle 'holdovers' in families from the wartime shortages?

It's all a bit patchwork. For instance, the very last thing came "off the ration" in 1954 (I think it may have been bacon, which was also one of the first things that was rationed). And though the US government was more generous to the Germans than to the British (we paid off the last of the US post-war loan sixty years on, at the end of 2006, whereas the Germans got the Marshall Plan and a lot of help to rebuild their factories), individual Americans were wonderfully generous with food parcels for ages after the war had ended.

It wasn't as bad as it was portrayed because people were used to it. You don't hanker after what you don't really know exists! We didn't have a fridge in the fifties, but then nor did anyone else we knew, so we didn't feel deprived. A lot of people got a telly for the coronation in 1953, but a lot of people didn't and went next door or to Them Down The Street to watch the coronation on theirs. Nobody missed foreign holidays or going by air because those only happened for the Rich, and if you weren't rich they didn't happen. Fitted carpets? Only in hotels, and only in expensive hotels at that. Lino was the norm for most people, with a carpet in the middle of the main (sitting/living) room with the end of it under the sofa.

Because my father was crippled (his chosen word: he was very clear that he had not been disabled!) during the war (not a war wound, he got polio in the Indian Army), we got a car when I was five; before that he rode a bicycle to work, and I think it may have hurt him horribly but he never complained. It was just that a car was a priority: we couldn't really afford it, but we were happy to do without other things so that DDG could get the mile-and-a-half in to work more easily; he would not have been able to walk it, and he did so hate the bicycle. He called it rude names.

No heating: yes. And chilblains as a result. Anyone a bit younger than I am is quite likely not to know what chilblains are; anyone my ago or older does know and is really glad their children never had to. No heating also meant water frozen in the mug by the bed when you woke up in the morning, on some winter days. Two of our five bedrooms had gas fires in them, but they were only used if someone was ill (me again!) and the doctor said the patient had to be kept warm. And since the doctor did house-calls for children, he knew at once if the room they were in was too cold: if he kept his overcoat on, he was going to prescribe hot-water-bottles as well as penicillin.

We were middle-class, so we did have indoor plumbing, and a washing machine (top loading twin tub, with a mangle), but we also had shared bathwater, eldest first simply because he was likely to be cleanest; with three children it made sense for them to wash in the same hot water, because heating the water was expensive.

So was food. Not shortages exactly, but for example except in autumn when the apple trees were fruiting we children were allowed three fruit a day each: one apple, one orange and one banana. It was deeply sinful to steal fruit that belonged to one of the others! And that was because they were good for us but they cost a lot. We were more likely to get stewed bottled rhubarb (bottled from the garden) than fresh fruit. But we got one penny per year of our age given to us each Saturday, to spend however we wanted.

Oh, and bread was sold by the baker from house to house using a horse and cart. He would stop outside and shout "bre-ead!" and people came out of the nearby houses to buy it, and lardy-cake if there was money spare for it that week. That was one less thing that had to be bought when my mother went food-shopping in the morning at the local shops; they were about a quarter of a mile away, and if she would be getting heavy things like potatoes she would take her bicycle so they could be put into the basket at the front instead of her carrying them. There was no supermarket in the town where I lived, not until I suppose 1965 or so. Possibly even later. Milk was delivered, but the milkman only delivered milk, not eggs or yoghurt.

And nobody I knew except my mother cooked using olive oil or garlic.

And that is quite enough. I dunnalf go on.

What a great post! I remember nearly all of these, and in addition, the rag and bone man coming when you exchanged your old clothes for donkey Stone ( donkey stone, anyone?)
And the coal man, and the pink paraffin man. And your Coop 'divi' number.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 04/10/2023 21:52

Oooh, the "Ra-BOH" man! I didn't know what he was shouting for a long, long time. He had a horse and cart too, but it was a flat one, not one shaped like a small caravan. His horse was an incredibly scruffy piebald with hairy feet, whereas the baker's was a tidy bay pony.

We had meat delivered from the butcher's shop by a Lad on a bicycle; the meat travelled in brown paper parcels in a basket at the front, and the bicycle had a metal plate between seat-shaft and steering with the name of the butcher (which to my shame I can't immediately remember) on it. On one terrible occasion my mother's dachshund came in with a brown paper parcel which had four pork chops in it, and they were not ones we had ordered: he must have managed somehow to steal them from the bicycle basket, and my mother didn't dare own up to the theft so we had them for supper, or rather I had a boiled egg and the other four had chops. (I didn't mind: I was about three, and didn't much like chops because of the bone being so difficult to deal with, but I loved boiled eggs. They only happened when the local farm's hens were On Lay; boiled eggs had to be fresh, whereas ones for cooking came from a shop.)

Turquioseblue · 05/10/2023 00:25

That reminds me here in Australia, the milk was delivered in glass bottles, you put the holder outside with the empty bottles which the Bottle-O, as we called the milkman, would take the empty bottles away and replace them with full ones. Plus I think my mother put the coins out with the bottles to pay him - and nobody took them!
Most other things were bought at the local corner store. The men all used the cars if they had them to get to work, so all the mothers used to ride the same bus to get to the shops and they all knew each other. I think fewer people were lonely back then.We kids knew if we played up, people always knew who our parents were and they would be told about it!

We kids roamed free - we used to take our dog and go down the bush and swim in the swimming hole. My mother's only stipulation was that I go with my older brothers. We walked miles to and from school. When we came home, we were given a snack and then told to go outside and not come back until dinner time - kids played out in the streets then.

AcrossthePond55 · 06/10/2023 18:26

@SequentialAnalyst

I think a Mystery Tour could really be a lot of fun, not knowing where you're going to end up. Most of the chartered bus trips I hear about here are either through Senior Centres, or the big tour companies like Tauck. My folks used to do a lot of Tauck tours when they decided driving was too much for a long trip and they really enjoyed them. They're well organized but expensive!!

'Coaching it' isn't as big a deal here where 'the car is king'. But I remember DH's work chartered a bus to take us all to a baseball game once. OMG did we all have fun!! I think the only song we sang was 'Take Me Out to the Ballgame" but it was sung loudly and often!

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime

Thanks for the excellent post on life in the UK in the '50s. It was a bit different here! No horses and carts, but we did have the milkman delivering in his milk truck and there were Bakery vans with bread & goodies. Anyone growing up in So Cal would remember the Helms Bakery van, Jewel T, and the various local dairies. IIRC ours was 'Shady Grove', which also had a 'drive through' store in front of the actual dairy. Run out of milk? Pick some up at the drive through lol. We did have a 'butter and egg man' who delivered in his car! Where I grew up was suburban, previously agricultural, and surrounded by orange groves so there were still people who kept chickens. The butter and egg man also kept rabbits to sell for meat. I wouldn't get out of the car at his house 'for fear of what I might see'.

The idea of horses and carts trundling down city/town streets is quite something to me! Was it based on 'tradition' or just that motor vehicles would have been too expensive for the businesses?

A rag and bone man? I think I they were kind of junk collectors, you'd give them household stuff you no longer wanted? But what on earth is Donkey stone? If you think about it, Rag and Bone was ahead of its time. These days we'd call it 'recycling'.

You know, growing up where I did I never gave fruit a second thought. We had an orange tree in our backyard as well as the groves and one grove had a plum tree. There was a strawberry field 'down the road by the church'. But also living where I did meant there was fresh fruit and vegetables available all year round.

@Turquioseblue

we were given a snack and then told to go outside and not come back until dinner time - kids played out in the streets then.

That sounds similar to where I grew up. Our mums shooed us outside to go play in the morning and we were often out all day. Usually someone's mum would give us all a sandwich at lunch time. We spent most of our time playing in the orange groves, riding bikes up and down the street (a cul de sac) or playing kick the can or other games. Once we got 'old enough' we could hike in the foothills or ride our bikes to the reservoir to swim.

Roussette · 06/10/2023 18:44

Sounds idyllic @AcrossthePond55

We were shoved out the door and told to come back when it was getting dark! There was a whole tribe of us. We used to split up and set trails for the other 'team'. Someone always got lost and would go home crying! But they'd be out next time and rarin' to go!

We used to take an apple and sometimes a sandwich wrapped up in greaseproof paper, we always stuck together, just as well, there was one particular dodgy character exposing himself, we just used to laugh at him. He never came back Grin

AcrossthePond55 · 06/10/2023 20:56

Roussette · 06/10/2023 18:44

Sounds idyllic @AcrossthePond55

We were shoved out the door and told to come back when it was getting dark! There was a whole tribe of us. We used to split up and set trails for the other 'team'. Someone always got lost and would go home crying! But they'd be out next time and rarin' to go!

We used to take an apple and sometimes a sandwich wrapped up in greaseproof paper, we always stuck together, just as well, there was one particular dodgy character exposing himself, we just used to laugh at him. He never came back Grin

This is the thing I think later generations missed out on. I can't imagine turning either of my two DC (born early and late 80s) out to roam freely all day, yet that is what our parents did without a thought. Certainly my younger son has said he wishes he'd grown up when I did. He says life just seems like it was safer and simpler then. By the time mine were old enough we had heard the stories of Adam Walsh, James Bulger, etc and we were too (as my sons called it) 'parent-noid' to let them roam. We actually taught our two to go up on the porch if a strange car entered the cul de sac. Once we moved to the country we told them to stay on our property and if they were in the side pastures near where the road ran, to stay in sight of the house.

I wonder if anyone else remembers the way conversations would abruptly halt when you walked into a room full of 'grownups'. I think our parent's generation was also much more limiting in what information we were given, either because they didn't want to frighten us (Cold War, violence, etc) or it was considered 'unsuitable' (sex, the neighbour's divorce etc).

I also remember when breast cancer and menopause were discussed in whispers as if they were some terrible secret thing or something to be ashamed of. Oh, and a 'lady' NEVER mentioned periods or it's 'accoutrements' in front of any male. Not even your own dad. Sanitary supplies were kept strictly under the bathroom sink or your underwear drawer.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 06/10/2023 21:22

AcrossthePond55
The idea of horses and carts trundling down city/town streets is quite something to me! Was it based on 'tradition' or just that motor vehicles would have been too expensive for the businesses?

Expensive to buy and not really needed; there were not so very many motor-cars on the roads during the day in most places. Hey, in the 1950s and even 1960s councils were still building "council houses" on "council estates" which were on roads about two-and-a-half cars wide and had absolutely nowhere for the residents to park a car, because they were not expected to have one. That caused nasty parking congestion in the seventies and eighties when having a car became more of a norm, and if you read Mumsnet you find that "where to park the car" still causes near-warfare in England! In the eighties, fire-engines on their way into housing estates simply had to barge cars out of their way in order to get through to where the fire was, and the fire brigades absolutely refused to pay compensation to anyone whose car had been obstructing the Queen's highway so they couldn't easily get past. Then for a bit everyone parked on the same side of the road, until it was forgotten and each demanded his or her right to park immediately outside his or her own house until the next chip-pan fire.

Oh, petrol could be a problem too: per Wikipedia, "Petrol rationing was introduced in September 1939 with an allowance of approximately 200 miles (320 kilometres) of motoring per month. The coupons issued related to a car's calculated RAC horsepower and that horsepower's nominal fuel consumption. From July 1942 until June 1945, the basic ration was suspended completely, with essential-user coupons being issued only to those with official sanction. In June 1945, the basic ration was restored to allow about 150 miles (240 km) per month; this was increased in August 1945 to allow about 180 miles (290 km) per month." Petrol rationing stopped in 1947, but started again in 1948 at 90 miles a month, went back to 180 miles in 1949, was doubled again in 1950, then ended. Except it didn't entirely, because it was reintroduced during the Suez crisis. I think many people remembered petrol not being available at all times and easily, and that played into getting a car or not getting one.

It also took a long time for England to get the idea that everyone had the right to travel in their own car rather then by public transport. Want to go to the seaside? Get on a train: they were good, reasonably cheap and reasonably frequent. I remember going from London to Newcastle upon Tyne when I was about ten. (Yes, on my own: my mother asked the guard to keep an eye on me, which he did at least twice.) I got on the train in King's Cross, had lunch on the train under the fatherly eye of an elderly waiter for a very reasonable 10/6d for three courses, and got out at Newcastle, where I waited on the station for my uncle to get out of work and come to collect me. (That was a steam train, of course. Later I watched the Flying Scotsman go through York non-stop from London to Edinburgh in 1968, when diesel had taken over but she was allowed on the tracks for a one-off occasion.)

Travel in town for us was on foot, on a bicycle or by bus, and bicycling was fairly safe when there were so many fewer cars. Further afield, trains were our friends.

Roussette · 06/10/2023 21:40

AcrossthePond55 · 06/10/2023 20:56

This is the thing I think later generations missed out on. I can't imagine turning either of my two DC (born early and late 80s) out to roam freely all day, yet that is what our parents did without a thought. Certainly my younger son has said he wishes he'd grown up when I did. He says life just seems like it was safer and simpler then. By the time mine were old enough we had heard the stories of Adam Walsh, James Bulger, etc and we were too (as my sons called it) 'parent-noid' to let them roam. We actually taught our two to go up on the porch if a strange car entered the cul de sac. Once we moved to the country we told them to stay on our property and if they were in the side pastures near where the road ran, to stay in sight of the house.

I wonder if anyone else remembers the way conversations would abruptly halt when you walked into a room full of 'grownups'. I think our parent's generation was also much more limiting in what information we were given, either because they didn't want to frighten us (Cold War, violence, etc) or it was considered 'unsuitable' (sex, the neighbour's divorce etc).

I also remember when breast cancer and menopause were discussed in whispers as if they were some terrible secret thing or something to be ashamed of. Oh, and a 'lady' NEVER mentioned periods or it's 'accoutrements' in front of any male. Not even your own dad. Sanitary supplies were kept strictly under the bathroom sink or your underwear drawer.

Oh my, yes. NOTHING was talked about. Young children had to puzzle and deduce and work out everything!

Everything was hidden which is why I am open with my DCs. What it was like for me. What it was like then. What they can talk about with me, basically anything however horrifying!

When I grew up, everything was based on secrets. I hated that. So... if my kids ask me anything, literally anything, I answer.

DavidChecker · 12/11/2023 09:26

Telephones, (NRTT) Northampton Population 1000,000 kept a manual exchange, number please! until STD came in Subscriber Trunk Dialling. 1966 or so.