Any thoughts on this piece of fabric?

[Curlycrisps]

I've just received this as a gift. A friend (aged 80+) inherited from her mother who bought it in an antique shop, in the 1980s I'm guessing.

I don't want to take the frame apart but I can see that the fabric looks thick and heavy, woven with what seems to be metallic thread. The sequins are glass.

The lady who gave it to me has no idea what it is (neither did her mum) and I'm hoping to find out for her.

I'm wondering if it could have been the edge of a 18th century men's jacket... but that's a wild guess from a place of ignorance!

Thanks in advance.

It's beautiful!

What size is it?

That’s so intricate ❤️

Stunning

Men’s or women’s clothing, or a piece from headgear?

this article has a few pictures that remind me of what you have there

www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/a-history-of-sequins-from-king-tut-to-the-king-of-pop-8035/

Oh wow!! That's stunning! How special.

Thanks everyone! Great article @EmmaEmerald .

@BewareTheBeardedDragon it's about the same size as an A4 piece of paper.

I think the Victorians were very big into Scrapbooking. So I was wondering if it originally came from a scrapbook (that a Victorian lady had found from an earlier age), then someone found it in the scrapbook and decided it was so special,they framed it.

That's a good theory!

I might have to take a trip to the V&A, although I live in Devon so a bit of a schlep!

There are glass jewels on there, but the blue ones look like actual sequins. The Are they also glass ? Are there any sequins on it ? Actual sequins would date it fairly accurately, depending on what they were made of . Early sequins were metal. Later sequins were made of gelatine, they soften on contact with water, and the metallic surface of them wears off over time. Plastic sequins are later still, fifties onward.
If all the embellishments are glass then looking at the type of them could date it, but the embroidery is also key. It looks like it could be machine embroidery but it is hard for me to enlarge it and keep clarity, so it could be hand done. I feel pretty sure that it is twentieth century. Is the patterned fabric a backing ? What is the whole piece like from further away ?
It is definitely not from an eighteenth century waistcoat or jacket. I think it could be Indian possibly.

The backing fabric with the metallic threads - are these tarnished at all ? They look very bright which means synthetic sparkle, again older metallic fabrics are metal and tend to tarnish over time.
It is really hard to tell without seeing it in the flesh, whether it is a Victorian decoration, twenties, or post 1950. The embroidery looks like silk floss, not synthetic.

In case it's clothing you could try the costume museum in Platt Fields Manchester.

See if you can email the V&A with a photo.
I did this with a very old painting and they were really helpful.

Great, thank you

Oh wow, thanks - I'll try that.

Very interesting, can you show us the back at all? I am no expert but I have a feeling that it is not that old. Tap the stones gently on your teeth, that should tell you if they are glass or not. Otherwise the white thread looks remarkably uncoloured buy dirt or yellowing that I assume would indicate some age to the piece. Do let us know how you get on!

It's actually quite dirty in places and none of it is white-white to my eyes. Might be the photos! I haven't taken the back off, but I am fairly certain the sequins etc are glass as I can see they have mirrored backs which are foxed / worn like old wall mirrors.

That's interesting. There are no sequin-sequins. Even the round blue ones and the tiniest round clear ones are glass, I can see a bevelled edge. The tiniest ones almost look like they're doughnut shaped, rather than flat.

Sorry @SirVixofVixHall , I only answered one of your questions.

The patterned fabric is a backing. It looks like quite a heavy / stiff jacquard to me. The embroidery and sequins are on a ground of fine netting. Just took some more pics with a posher phone in case it helps with the sleuthing.

It is tricky because it has been framed, so I can’t see if the netting is synthetic or not. The backing fabric looks fairly modern, sixties- eighties at a guess.
The glass embellishments are old enough to have some degradation of the backing.
The threads that form the tiny stems etc, can you see whether they look sort of wrapped in a fine strip of metal (if that makes sense to you) ? I have some trimming somewhere, will see if I can find it, to show you what I mean.

Here is a section of Victorian trimming, you can see that the sparkle comes from strips of metal, used in different ways along the threads, with wider strips used on some parts.

Wow, that's gorgeous.

Now that you've prompted me to peer closely at the stems, I'm questioning my claim about 'metallic thread'. The stemmy bits look almost like a fluffed up chenille if you really zoom in on them. And the gold stitching in the embroidered leaves looks like it might just be gold-toned silk. I may have to take it out of the frame to inspect the back.

One other thing I've just spotted is a hole that goes right through the embroidery and the backing, which might mean nothing of course, but could indicate that the fabric and the embellishments have been 'together' for a long time, rather than the background just being a mount.

Hmm yes, I can see the fluffiness there, it looks like it might all be done in silk. The backing fabric also looks different in close up, more like an embroidered finish as well, not quite what I assumed from the initial pictures. Can you get another close up of the backing fabric ?

It is certainly very beautifully done in silk floss. I am wondering about 19th century given the degraded backings to the gems, and the intricacy of the embroidery. It is puzzling me, as I haven’t seen anything quite like it.
Has it all been trimmed around the edges of the embroidery ? Is it stitched to the backing ? The design is interesting, with the leaves and seed heads.