The Historical Ponderings Society

[EverySongbirdSays]

Following on from the thread "What questions do you have about stuff from History or am I the only one?" Which is here

Ever wondered how we got from the clothes of Cave people to the clothes of today?

Who was the first person to make and eat Cheese? Or cake?

How ideas became widespread

Why the Aztecs didn't have the wheel?

Why Elizabeth I never married?

How accurate historical fiction is?

Then this your thread and we are your people.

PROCEED HISTORY LOVERS

I stand corrected on its availability. (Amazon have it.)

As I recall, he discovers that his household - like others - are putting their sewage in their basement

To be collected by "gong farmers" and sold for industry ...

Strewth. Can you imagine collecting and transporting the stuff?

Wasn't it the invention of artificial fertiliser that caused the Great Stink (at least in part)? Because suddenly the market for night soil collapsed, which in conjunction with the popular take up of flushing toilets meant an awful lot of poop got chucked into the Thames

Looks like it was reprinted in 2014 so plenty on Amazon!

I wonder how much of a 'civilisation' can be defined by their sanitation arrangements?

The book I was reading was shadow of night - part 2 of discoverie of witches. Quite like twilight but with some interesting history...

Samuel Pepys once came down to a cellar full of poo when his neighbour's basement cess pit leaked into his.

I suppose you would get used to it just as with animal poo. I have spent today helping out on a primary school trip to a farm and the cow shit really did smell appalling but the farmer obviously wasn't bothered by it. (While some of the children were horrified beyond measure by having to walk through a field with sheep poo in it.)

Not 'country' children, I'm guessing?

Place

When you think of the possibilities for disease transmission from having in-house cesspits .............

It brings a new perspective to the use of toilet brushes!

Bit of a gap since someone commented on Aztec technology and wheels...

I don't know much about the Aztec empire, but I do know a bit about the Inca, so other side of the continent, they had pretty sophisticated irrigation techniques, a road network and other high levels of technology but didn't use the wheel.

They knew of the principles, but basically it just wasn't that useful as it's all mountain ranges and it was much less labour intensive to use pack animals rather than try to use the wheel.

I assume it's similar with the Aztecs? I don't think it's quite as mountainous because it's a bigger bit of land and I could be wrong, but I think it's a few mountain ranges and then quite a lot of tropical rainforest? (Originally obviously) so again just not really great for using the wheel.

I think cow poo smells quite nice, as poo goes. Horse poo is nicest, then cow, pig isn't great and poultry is

HooArghhhEwe give it me back seems perfectly reasonable to me. My dad is from Manchester so he might use that construction. I say 'where's it to' instead of where is it because I grew up in Devon (and wasps are Jaspers there as well).

spudlet, I think that poo from animals with vegetarian diets is less offensive than those who eat meat?

Cozie - that's the interesting thing. We are in a rural market town that still holds cattle markets in the town centre, racehorse breeding is a major industry, school looks out over fields. They're not exactly urban. Some of the kids have grandparents who are farmers, dads who are gamekeepers, others clearly never ever go out into the country. 'This reminds me of a golfcourse' said one.

I was just happy because we walked over some lovely ridge and furrow and some of the children were interested when I told them I think I spotted some medieval terracing too. I love our landscape.

human pooh smells bad because we are omnivores (or is it because we are carnivores?)
That is awhy dogs, cats and pigs pooh smells, and horse and cow is Ok.

It's a bit different when you have to look - up on the moor - for a spot without 'pellets' to sit down if you need to rest.

And sheep poo isn't that bad all things considered.

Ooh, interesting thread.

"I've sometimes wondered what era we are in now?"

In scientific terms, we're probably in the Anthropocene era. It hasn't quite been approved yet, but surely that's just a formality.

A lot of these 'old' English words are so interesting because they're very similar to modern German. 'Eyren' for eggs is almost the same as 'Eier' in German, and 'ow bist' for how are you is amazing - bist is still the informal German word for 'you are'. And beck is not entirely unrelated to the German word for stream Bach.

'Old English' is a Germanic language isn't it?

A lot of these 'old' English words are so interesting because they're very similar to modern German

Possibly because they both have the same root going back further ...

mentalfloss.com/article/65261/how-word-father-unlocked-history-language

And Hindi for 1,2,3 is (apologies for spelling) eck, do, teen ...

"Possibly because they both have the same root going back further ..."

Sorry, I didn't explain well in the first post - I do know that Old English and German both have the same root, so the similarities are hardly surprising. The interesting thing is when words which have fallen out of general use in modern English are STILL being used in other European languages - so there's something of an asynchronicity in the pace of linguistic development, perhaps. Or perhaps too because English has experienced more invasions diverse linguistic influences over the millennia.

Toilets- when I was a teacher (I escaped last year) I taught history. We did change and continuity with year 7 using the history of the toilet. It's not always and easy concept for them to grasp.

Started with ancient Egyptian toilets right up to modern day. You can tell lots about an era from the toilets. So if it is emptied by a slave, if it is communal, if the connection is made between to sewage and infection. The Romans worked out there was a connection, but didn't know the why. Then we lost that and went back to sewers near water.

'pen gwyn' for penguin has made my day. That's so cute!