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Whether you're interested in Roman, military, British or art history, join our History forum to discuss your passion with other MNers.

The Historical Ponderings Society

740 replies

EverySongbirdSays · 24/11/2016 18:35

Following on from the thread "What questions do you have about stuff from History or am I the only one?" Which is here

Ever wondered how we got from the clothes of Cave people to the clothes of today?

Who was the first person to make and eat Cheese? Or cake?

How ideas became widespread

Why the Aztecs didn't have the wheel?

Why Elizabeth I never married?

How accurate historical fiction is?

Then this your thread and we are your people.

PROCEED HISTORY LOVERS

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Pidlan · 25/11/2016 10:22

Ooooh interesting thread, esp the linguistic bits. I'm first language Welsh.
Pointless trivia- the word penguin comes from the Welsh pen gwyn (white head)

ChessieFL · 25/11/2016 10:24

'Can you lend me a pen' is correct surely?

ChessieFL · 25/11/2016 10:24

Cross posts! I agree with whitewash.

hesterton · 25/11/2016 10:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

steppemum · 25/11/2016 10:31

Can you borrow me a pen is wrong in any language!
The formal correct way is as MrsWhite says.

I think the pp meant that kids say 'Can I lend a pen?' or Can I lend a pen off you? rather than can you lend me a pen.

GiddyOnZackHunt · 25/11/2016 10:32

Re plant names upthread, my grandad was from rural parts, grew up on farms as a labourer's son. You get the picture.
He grew stuff all his life on a variety of scales from market gardening to his little potting shed in his 80s. And he used the common names of plants too. My favourite was Lad's Love for Artemesia. Took me a long time to work out what some were really called.
His mother was illiterate but she used plants for medicinal purposes such as poultices and drinks very successfully. She didn't have a daughter so very little was handed down to anyone :( I'd love to know what was lost.

hesterton · 25/11/2016 10:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Spudlet · 25/11/2016 10:38

Interesting, thanks LumelaMme Smile

I grew up on the Leicestershire/Warwickshire border, and some people called playgrounds 'reccies' there too. Also, me duck is a term of endearment.

I find the glass / gl-ah-ss divide interesting. Where I live now is not much further south than where I grew up, but the accent is that bit more southern, as typified by glahhhss. I just can't say it like that. I feel ridiculous!

MrsWhiteWash · 25/11/2016 11:01

I think the pp meant that kids say 'Can I lend a pen?' or Can I lend a pen off you? rather than can you lend me a pen.

That makes more sense - and yes I would find that bit odd.

I may say "can I lend you a pen" if someone was struggling with out one and I had one to lend them but wouldn't request one that way.

I find the glass / gl-ah-ss divide interesting

I think I grew up on the border of that as both sound right to me - and depending on where I am and who I'm which comes out. DH is a definite glass as are the children.

www.bl.uk/learning/langlit/sounds/regional-voices/phonological-variation/

This has a map of the changes - it seems to agrees I grew up right between two colours.

EverySongbirdSays · 25/11/2016 11:13

Can anyone borrow me a pen?

Can you borrow me a pen?

is what is regularly heard here

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EverySongbirdSays · 25/11/2016 11:16

Also the opposite of itch and scratch.

eg i'm itching my back, as opposed to I'm scratching my back

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woodhill · 25/11/2016 11:26

Watching

Batteriesallgone · 25/11/2016 12:19

Can someone tell me the origins of glibrator being English? I'm sure I was told it was given to the brits by the Portuguese to annoy the Spanish. Is that right? What was the broader context?

EBearhug · 25/11/2016 12:33

A jasper is a Dorset wasp, too. Not that I realised till I went away to uni!

HuckleberryGin · 25/11/2016 13:00

Oops. They said "can I lend a pen", rather than, can you lend me a pen or can u borrow a pen.

SaagMasala · 25/11/2016 13:08

going back to the idea of future vs past and what it might be like. I don't think many of us could imagine things being vastly different from what we currently experience. How many Victorians could have imagined what everyday life would have been like just 100 years later?

My gt gran was born in 1885 and married in 1908. She started off working as a domestic servant, as did many young women in those times. She never worked outside the house again after she married. She had 6 children and died in 1978. It is fascinating to compare her early life with life towards the late 20th century. It was a period of incredible growth & innovation.

In her lifetime she would have seen (amongst all sorts of other things of course) :

electric lighting inside houses. She grew up firstly with just candles and then gas lights.
all manner of electrical appliances such as vacuum cleaners and washing machines.

television
telephones
the microwave
domestic fridges & freezers

indoor plumbing. She was lucky enough to move into a newly-built house in 1935 that had an inside toilet, bathroom and also a back boiler for a hot water supply. Right up till the 1960's my DH's gran had an old cast iron range in a house with only cold water, and an outside toilet that was just a hole with a wooden board over it (not a modern flush toilet).

Cars became a lot more common of course.
Aeroplanes. And using them for holidays abroad.

Elevators and lifts became a lot more commonplace in public buildings. I remember her refusing to use them because she thought they weren't safe (this would have been in the 1960's)

plastics
man-made fibres such as nylon used for clothing/fabrics.

Many medical innovations such as antibiotics, organ transplants, replacement joints, insulin, many more vaccinations including against polio (which one of her children had, and left her disabled).

The NHS is probably the single most important change in her lifetime, as was the ability to get a pension after her husband died.

zips & velcro in clothing

aerosols

ball-point pen

the contraceptive pill (she would never have used it of course, as she was too old - and a widow - by then)

I could go on...

and space travel of course. Apparently she never believed in the moon landings.

I remember that right into her 80's, before she became crippled by arthritis, she still wore a heavily boned corset every day. She said it wasn't surprising that young people had such bad posture because they weren't wearing proper support!

I think the biggest change in my lifetime has been the computer, the internet & the increasing reliance we have on digital technology. Could we survive without it I wonder?

EBearhug · 25/11/2016 13:08

he used the common names of plants too. My favourite was Lad's Love for Artemesia. Took me a long time to work out what some were really called.

My mother always insisted we learn the botanical names for this reason. I knew it as Lad's Love, then Southernwood, then Artemisia.

cozietoesie · 25/11/2016 13:25

Actually, Lurking, I'd disagree on that. Those were the glory days of the space race (loads of $$$$ and buckets of prestige events) and I suspect that NASA did a good few tests before sending up the final manned rocket. The BBC had enormous prestige in those days so I reckon they might well have allowed them to film a trial. Timing would have been a doddle - and, after all, we don't know how many takes there were before they settled on that one.

EBearhug · 25/11/2016 13:36

Things changed massively over the 19th century, too. By the end, there are railways, the first cars, electricity, telegraphy, telephones, photography, first moving films, all sorts of mechanisation and automation in industry and agriculture and so on. I think a city in 1900 would be more unrecognisable to someone from 1800 than a modern city would be to someone from 1900 in many ways.

HooArghhhEwe · 25/11/2016 14:23

My dad (born New Castle way, grew up around Manchester) says "give it me back" which makes my Aussie DH Confused

cozietoesie · 25/11/2016 14:46

I had, years ago, some acquaintances who were Québécois. (Thanks autocorrect Grin) They spoke French but other (French) friends couldn't understand much of what they were saying. They used to speak to each other in English after a while. Wink

Unicornsarelovely · 25/11/2016 14:59

Interesting thread - thanks very much.

I just thought I'd offer that I was reading a silly novel while ill where the heroine time travels to Elizabethan England. What is interesting is that she is massively tall in comparison to normal women and that her accent is totally incomprehensible to medieval Londoners. It's not a take on time travel I'd come across before.

EverySongbirdSays · 25/11/2016 15:26

Ooooo what book?

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cozietoesie · 25/11/2016 16:15

There's an old book called 'The Devil in Velvet' by one John Dickson Carr in which the hero - Nicholas something or other - make a satanic pact to go back to Restoration England. (To solve a murder - don't ask.)

One notable thing is that our hero discovers that while he can wield an epee with only moderate skill in the 20th Century, he has become the finest swordsman in England in Restoration times. (Swordplay having made its great strides during the 17th and 18th centuries in France.) He's also obsessed with solving the sewage issue. (As I recall, he discovers that his household - like others - are putting their sewage in their basement!)

It's worth a read if anyone can find a copy on the bookshelves of elderly relatives. I doubt it's still in print. It's

cozietoesie · 25/11/2016 16:15

I have no idea where that stray 'It's' came from. Grin

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